49ers Post Game

[Bowhunting Viking]

I'm just gonna comment here from what I have seen...i have had the Sunday Ticket since it came out so I have been able to get see every Vikes game since then. So i am going by the eye test. I'm old school, not big in Fantasy football, not a big stats guy and all that. If u aren, trust me I am not putting you down ok, so please put that to rest. I prefer to just go with my eyes, my gut and what I see. Its served me pretty well in my life as a husband, father, Bowhunter and football fan. So i still trust it.
I also base alot of my beliefs on the fact that I know and talk to Cousins former center and the guy who knows him amd his game well.
From what I have heard 1st hand and have seen as a dienhard fan, I will confidently say I believe this. The guy is a great human being. A super great guy. A VERY disciplined individual. A very talented athlete. A very oriented team guy. A guy who wants SO bad to succeed. BUT.. does it to a fault. He is so afraid of failing and letting the team and the fan base, and especially the coaches down, I believe especially a coach like Zim, that he gets overwhelmed and the big games get TOO big for him. It sucks, and I wish I wasnt able to say this so confidently, but after watching it happen so often, and hearing it first hand from a teammate, I hate to say that it's the conclusion that I have reluctantly came to. Bums me out to say it so much. But right now, after what I've seen and heard, I don't have the confidence that the Pat's, Chiefs, Seachickens, Packers etc have in their QBs in big games. Sorry guys, but just being honest. I'm super depressed right now that we are done yet again for another season. Just being honest now I feel and what I see. I hope I am proven wrong. But right now, I have lost the confidence in Kirk that I tried to hold on to. Just my opinion. If it doesnt align with your belief, sorry, but just being honest right now.
Maybe next year

[CharVike]

Not only would a "few 1st round picks" be completely absurd for Manning, but he's a free agent. If you want him, pretty much just have to make an offer. I'll be surprised if he gets any.

Dude wait...what?? Did he just really want to offer the giants a few first round picks for Eli Manning? A guy that is probably going to retire, can hardly move and is so far past his prime its not even funny?

Oh the offseason....

I wouldn't offer a pack of gum. I was pointing out a winning QB. 2 Super Bowls is pretty dam good. It wasn't a one time knock off like Dilifier who basically just handed the ball off and let the D score. Elli was an underdog to a multiple Super Bowl winner with one of the best coaches and QBs in NFL history. That's a tall order and the guy pulled it off. I think Cousins is better than Elli even a young Elli. But Elli had something those 2 years. I think they may have even been a 6th seed. Basically a team that was a step behind the big dogs.

[CharVike]

I'm not saying Keenum has a high likelihood of winning a Superbowl...He's just a journeyman and a guy who isn't likely to even get you to the playoffs on a given year...but he has the character and demeanor needed for big moments and Kirk doesn't.

In what sense? Because he took a shot with no time to go and completed the miracle pass? At least Cousins game vs. NO was impressive. Keenum was part of the problem vs. NO and helped pis# that lead away and he was downright beat if the miracle didnt happen. But when you look at Kirks game vs. NO he was answering back right and left, didnt turn the ball over and went off in OT. That was the biggest moment in Kirk's career to date going in as a huge underdog on the road against a loaded team in the playoffs and he tore it up. Keenum's big moment quickly disappeared because of his carelessness with the ball. No less, we were at home, a better team that year than in 2019 and facing a worse NO team than we faced this year.

I remember guys on here saying Kirk would've never made Keenums throw to Diggs. Why wouldnt he? There was 10 seconds left in the game? You're giving credit to Keenum in "big moments" when he really did what in big moments? Keenum beat 2 winning teams that year (Rams and Falcons). Our defense held the Rams to 7 points and the Falcons to 9. They were both playoff teams! We had the #1 total defense in the NFL, #2 vs. the pass and #2 vs. the run. THAT's how good our defense was. Nothing remotely close to what Cousins had this year. Are you going to tell me Cousins wouldnt have beat the Rams and Falcons with that defense? I sure hope not. But then we land a first round bye and get a home game vs. the Saints where he played a decent half of football and then went an entire half without scoring a TD and threw an INT in our own end that resulted in a TD. But we're saying Keenum has the demeanor for big moments? Because of the miracle or a couple nice completions to Jarius Wright and Thielen? Did Kirk not do that in OT on the ROAD? Completed a key 3rd down to Diggs, lays a deep ball on Thielens lap, throws a TD to Rudy on 3rd and goal.

Bottom line is, I dont buy the Keenum is good in big moments and Kirk isnt garbage. Kirk didnt need luck to beat the Saints, he flat out beat them on the road. Keenum was part of the reason we nearly lost that playoff game against the Saints and somehow redeemed himself with a miracle play.

Anyone that even mentions Keenum and winning don't understand what a winning player is. The bum signed a big contract with the Broncos, a team that was a QB away, and he crap the bed. They were so sick of watching the joke they bench him. And then I guess cut him. He's not even a starter quality player. He's a very good backup that can play a few games and that's it. He has minimum physical ability and yes he can run with a football I guess. Who cares. As a QB you need to be able to throw a football at a decent level. The same people #### that Cousins can't run. I've seen much worse mobile QBs than Cousins. He's no Vick but Vick had a hard time completing a simple check down. Was almost impossible. Zero ability to pass. And these scouts made him a high 1st rounder. Do they even watch? Same thing happened with RG whatever. Just a bum. No ability to pass. I saw that and these scouts didn't. But we have that here with this how great Keenum is BS. That year we played some D because we played a garbage schedule. We shut the Pack out that year. We didn't come close to that this year or we would have won the division with Cousins. Our D was smoked both games. The Pack let up in the 1st game and just ran time off. Otherwise they may have put up 50. They had 21 in a blink of the eye. The game was over. That's one example of stats being deceiving.

[CharVike]

Your one of those that thinks it's all QB.

No, I'm one that thinks if one aspect of a very talented offense is being taken away the other aspect has to compensate for it. The 49ers removed the running game as a factor, so that put the ball in Cousins' hands and the passing game and he couldn't get it done. Same thing that happened in the 2nd game against the Packers and earlier in the first loss to the Bears.

Look, I understand the claim that it doesn't all come down to the QB, specifically for the Vikings, Cousins. I get that. I agree with that. Football is a team game and there is a defense and an offense and each has to carry its own water.

What I don't get is why defenses obviously target shutting down the Vikings run game and want to force Cousins to beat them. This is consistent. This isn't one opponent doing it one time - it happened in the 3 lopsided losses listed above.

And it highlights the flaw in saying Cousins isn't the problem. He's not the problem because he's a bad QB. He's a good QB. He's talented. He's capable of making the big plays to win games. And on occasion, he does make them. No, the flaw in saying Cousins isn't the problem is that he doesn't do that often enough. When a defense takes away the run game, if the offense can't compensate with the pass game, then that is when you start to see historically poor performances of things like 7 first downs in multiple games. Cousins is a huge part of that result. He's the guy taking the snaps and who has to get the ball out accurately and on time. Yeah, he might be under pressure often. He might not have wide open guys. But he has to be able to compensate for that or it won't happen and he doesn't do that very often or consistently. Defenses aren't afraid of him. Quite the opposite, actually.

You can keep telling yourself that the problem isn't Cousins. I'd agree with you provided the rest of the team does it's part. If the run game works well and the defense plays well, the problem isn't Cousins. The problem becomes Cousins when the other aspects of the team *don't* work well, especially the run game. That's when Cousins' limitations become obvious.

And your point about his play against New Orleans doesn't alter that fact, because the Vikings were able to run it against the Saints and the defense played well in that game. The pressure was off Cousins to some degree and he stepped up and made a play. That doesn't absolve him or alter the conclusion that he isn't likely to do that in games like the ones against the Packers and 49ers, and at this point in his career, he's not likely to improve in this aspect either.

Here is what you are missing. You understand that it's a team game and I think we all do. When playing in a tough environment all three pieces must play at there top. But there are also breakdowns that simply take everything away no matter who's behind center.
I'll give two real life example. Both are by our only HOF QB Fran the Man. Cousins isn't close to a HOF QB. The first is against the Dolphins in Super Bown. The man had a final rating of 67.9. Any idea how bad that is. Any idea why that happened. I'll give it to you. The Dolphins controlled the LOS. Control is wrong. They owned it. Tark had zero time and was rushed to get his dinks off. He blew in other words. He couldn't even keep us in the game right from the start. At least Cousins threw a nice early TD. When your OL quits and lays down nothing works. It's impossible. He didn't have a ground game either. That's a HOFer. Not to be out done but an even better real life example from a HOFer. is again Fran the Man against the Steelers. Final QB rating of 14.1. I didn't think that could even happen or was possible. He faced two problems. Zero ground game and heat big time. He couldn't over come those two breakdowns. That to me is another Cousins not a HOFer. So there you go. When your OL gives up and won't block a player a QB has no chance. No QB. That's what Cousins faced against the 49ers. Our OL gave up. They didn't give a crap and you throw the entire blame at Cousins. The other guys have to help a little. Well Bradberry did at least he snap the ball. I could have suited a cheerleader up for that and it would have been the same. But an OL at least needs to get out of his stance and push a guy. They wouldn't do that. That's the biggest crime selling your QB/RB out because you know your #### will be beat anyway and give up. But that BS seems to be ok with you and a QB needs to overcome that. A RB also needs to overcome no blocking and that didn't happen either. Maybe Dan Marino would. No I've seen him get beat in big time games many times. That's my take. It comes down to the same thing I always say. It comes down to the LOS. Own it and the game is yours.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

Anyone that even mentions Keenum and winning don't understand what a winning player is. The bum signed a big contract with the Broncos, a team that was a QB away, and he crap the bed.

A QB away??? I think not. And then I guess he went to the Redskins...another team that's just a QB away!?!?

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

When your OL gives up and won't block a player a QB has no chance. No QB. That's what Cousins faced against the 49ers. Our OL gave up. They didn't give a crap and you throw the entire blame at Cousins.

It comes down to the same thing I always say. It comes down to the LOS. Own it and the game is yours.

Okay, show me where ANYONE threw the entire blame on Cousins. What we, or at least I, am saying is Watch the video links posted above. It didn't matter when the OL gave Cousins time. He STILL didn't throw to open receivers. He still threw bad passes in that game when he had NO pressure.

And, YES, I DO believe that "Bum" Keenum would have thrown to those open receivers and completed passes downfield.

I think Cousins needs to be hypnotized before each game to be fearless. Or maybe see the Wizard of Oz to receive courage. I don't know. I just wish he were somehow able to overcome these glitches because I want him to succeed.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

It drives me a little crazy when someone accuses us of "blaming the loss on Cousins".

Try to understand that I am NOT blaming the loss on Cousins. It's just that Cousins seems to be the center of debate because there are some posters that want to excuse his bad play.

The losses are a combination of many things, including bad OL play, bad coaching, etc...and YES...Cousins. If Cousins had thrown, and completed some of those passes to the open receivers downfield, maybe we wouldn't have noticed the bad OL as much. Maybe we'd be talking about playing GB this weekend instead.

[StumpHunter]

It drives me a little crazy when someone accuses of us "blaming the loss on Cousins".

Try to understand that I am NOT blaming the loss on Cousins. It's just that Cousins seems to be the center of debate because there are some posters that want to excuse his bad play.

The losses are a combination of many things, including bad OL play, bad coaching, etc...and YES...Cousins. If Cousins had thrown, and completed some of those passes to the open receivers downfield, maybe we wouldn't have noticed the bad OL as much. Maybe we'd be talking about playing GB this weekend instead.

Yeah, the OL needs to improve based on that performance against SF, so does the QB. Pretending that position is fine because it is hard to find a great QB and would take some luck to improve it, isn't going to win a SB.

[fiestavike]

It drives me a little crazy when someone accuses of us "blaming the loss on Cousins".

Try to understand that I am NOT blaming the loss on Cousins. It's just that Cousins seems to be the center of debate because there are some posters that want to excuse his bad play.

The losses are a combination of many things, including bad OL play, bad coaching, etc...and YES...Cousins. If Cousins had thrown, and completed some of those passes to the open receivers downfield, maybe we wouldn't have noticed the bad OL as much. Maybe we'd be talking about playing GB this weekend instead.

Yeah, the OL needs to improve based on that performance against SF, so does the QB. Pretending that position is fine because it is hard to find a great QB and would take some luck to improve it, isn't going to win a SB.

Its worth noting that there seems to be at least a possibility that the line finds a degree of improvement with further seasoning. OL players generally need to add strength before they are ready to compete with NFL defensive linemen, and many have to make significant technical adjustments to thrive in the pro game. Bradbury and O'Neill might have a lot of untapped upside, along with many of the young backup OL. I'm not saying that's a plan, but for the most part, FA and player development are going to provide a better immediate upgrade at OL than the draft.

[CharVike]

When your OL gives up and won't block a player a QB has no chance. No QB. That's what Cousins faced against the 49ers. Our OL gave up. They didn't give a crap and you throw the entire blame at Cousins.

It comes down to the same thing I always say. It comes down to the LOS. Own it and the game is yours.

Okay, show me where ANYONE threw the entire blame on Cousins. What we, or at least I, am saying is Watch the video links posted above. It didn't matter when the OL gave Cousins time. He STILL didn't throw to open receivers. He still threw bad passes in that game when he had NO pressure.

And, YES, I DO believe that "Bum" Keenum would have thrown to those open receivers and completed passes downfield.

I think Cousins needs to be hypnotized before each game to be fearless. Or maybe see the Wizard of Oz to receive courage. I don't know. I just wish he were somehow able to overcome these glitches because I want him to succeed.

I'm not taking the blame away from Cousins. He did nothing. They could have put one of us posters out there and got the same thing. He played a horrible game in a tough situation and that's why he is labeled a loser. He proved it again. He's not an elite QB. He wasn't before we got him and never will be. But we needed somebody to play the position. All teams do. That was the best they could do to keep us competitive. And we were. Many other teams were also after Cousins. He did win a playoff game against better competition. Your correct there were plays with no pressure and he threw awful passes. He has done the same thing in other big games. Unfortunately I don't see an easy way out of this mess. I know Keenum and Teddy aren't the answer. We don't make the playoffs with those two. We need to draft a developmental guy. We are stuck with who we have. I wanted Drew Lock last year but Speilman didn't. He would have been perfect for our current situation. That is what most people on here are looking for also. But the guy needs to have some talent. A Tyler Thigpen type don't cut it. Bottom line Cousins needs help around him. I wish he didn't we could free up a bunch of CAP if that was the case.

[CharVike]

Yeah, the OL needs to improve based on that performance against SF, so does the QB. Pretending that position is fine because it is hard to find a great QB and would take some luck to improve it, isn't going to win a SB.

Its worth noting that there seems to be at least a possibility that the line finds a degree of improvement with further seasoning. OL players generally need to add strength before they are ready to compete with NFL defensive linemen, and many have to make significant technical adjustments to thrive in the pro game. Bradbury and O'Neill might have a lot of untapped upside, along with many of the young backup OL. I'm not saying that's a plan, but for the most part, FA and player development are going to provide a better immediate upgrade at OL than the draft.

I feel the same. This Bradberry kid had problems. But center might be the most complicated position on the OL. Coming out the reports stated he needed to get a stronger base and it showed. Most college kids need that. But I also feel Bradberry will continue to develop. That don't happen overnight. That's why people stating draft a G to fix it won't work. That G won't be ready his 1st year. He could get ruined playing to early. It takes these kids time. Especially on the OL. IMO outside of QB WR also takes time. We won't draft a guy that can step in and help at the level needed. We should get a vet for the slot. We need that badly.

[CharVike]

It drives me a little crazy when someone accuses of us "blaming the loss on Cousins".

Try to understand that I am NOT blaming the loss on Cousins. It's just that Cousins seems to be the center of debate because there are some posters that want to excuse his bad play.

The losses are a combination of many things, including bad OL play, bad coaching, etc...and YES...Cousins. If Cousins had thrown, and completed some of those passes to the open receivers downfield, maybe we wouldn't have noticed the bad OL as much. Maybe we'd be talking about playing GB this weekend instead.

Yeah, the OL needs to improve based on that performance against SF, so does the QB. Pretending that position is fine because it is hard to find a great QB and would take some luck to improve it, isn't going to win a SB.

SF has shown us the blueprint. I call Grap and Cousins even. SF knew they couldn't hand the team over to him. We can't hand the team over to our guy. IMO we need a better D.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

I know Keenum and Teddy aren't the answer. We don't make the playoffs with those two.

I don't know how you be so sure about that. I know Keenum takes a lot of abuse here, but let's not pretend that ALL he dis was throw ONE miracle throw in a playoff game. Vikings were 13-3 with him that year. And even though they had a good defense, they were also putting points on the board with him. And Bridgewater also won his games with the Saints this year. So it's one thing to say that they are not elite QB's, but they both have proved that they can win.

[StumpHunter]

I know Keenum and Teddy aren't the answer. We don't make the playoffs with those two.

I don't know how you be so sure about that. I know Keenum takes a lot of abuse here, but let's not pretend that ALL he dis was throw ONE miracle throw in a playoff game. Vikings were 13-3 with him that year. And even though they had a good defense, they were also putting points on the board with him. And Bridgewater also won his games with the Saints this year. So it's one thing to say that they are not elite QB's, but they both have proved that they can win.

"We don't make the playoffs" with two QBs who we made the playoffs with. One made it with a significantly worse team than the one we had this year. One made it with a better team, but that better team earned a first round bye.

That guy cracks me up.

[Dames]

I know Keenum and Teddy aren't the answer. We don't make the playoffs with those two.

I don't know how you be so sure about that. I know Keenum takes a lot of abuse here, but let's not pretend that ALL he dis was throw ONE miracle throw in a playoff game. Vikings were 13-3 with him that year. And even though they had a good defense, they were also putting points on the board with him. And Bridgewater also won his games with the Saints this year. So it's one thing to say that they are not elite QB's, but they both have proved that they can win.

I'll repeat, I'm not a Teddy believer. I don't think he's great QB. But, one thing is his favor is I don't recall games from him where he utterly collapsed under the pressure. It's doesn't necessarily mean we would be successful with him, but I'm pretty tired of seeing those type of games from Kirk. Cousins is a more talented QB when things are going well, but games like SF will probably always be an issue with him. That said, I think we saw less of those type of games from him this year than than in 2018, so I have at least some hope that next year could be better. Not a lot of hope, mind you. But, he's our QB for 2020, and I highly doubt that goes to change, so I have to hope for the best.

Keenum is another topic. He doesn't have a history of being remotely good other than in 2017, so I have no reason to believe his success would have continued here.