Decision 2020: Fire, Extend or Wait Edition

[CharVike]

Wilson carries the team ok. I think they had a dominate defense when they won it all. They lead the NFL in TOs. There ground game was top notch also. Here's a story.
Reports of friction between defensive standouts and the franchise quarterback are nothing new, but a story published Friday on SI.com by Greg Bishop and Robert Klemko offers previously unknown details of coach Pete Carroll's attempt to protect Russell Wilson from his teammates and how it slowly tore the Seahawks apart. That's what every team wants. That's carrying to you.
The Chargers don't have a good team? Rivers carries them. Look at that group of WRs just to start things off. 87 rating for him in 16. Yea that carried them. They can't get through the playoffs when they do make it.
Cam. One great season. Watson come on. The Eagles were better with Foles. Wentz holds them back.
Rodgers is the best of what you think because his team has a 4 win talent level. And I stated that.

I guess I am curious what you think Cousins is bringing to the table then, versus what, say a Brad Johnson brought.

I thought he was brought in to be able to win games like the 2017 NFCCG. Apparently you think no QB could have won that for us (except maybe Rodgers), since the defense didn't play well and it would have required the QB to put the team on his back and win it.

Rodgers is much better than Cousins. He will never hit FA until he is finished or the Pack get a better QB. Our defense didn't show up for that 2017 game. The Eagles scored at will and that stiff QB we had handed them 7 points. I expect the Pack to pick Lock. Makes no sense just like the Rodgers pick didn't. IMO Cousins is a better QB than Brad. I liked Brad and I knew when Denny wanted RC as the main guy the game was up for that core of players and it was.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I guess I am curious what you think Cousins is bringing to the table then, versus what, say a Brad Johnson brought.

I thought he was brought in to be able to win games like the 2017 NFCCG. Apparently you think no QB could have won that for us (except maybe Rodgers), since the defense didn't play well and it would have required the QB to put the team on his back and win it.

Rodgers is much better than Cousins. He will never hit FA until he is finished or the Pack get a better QB. Our defense didn't show up for that 2017 game. The Eagles scored at will and that stiff QB we had handed them 7 points. I expect the Pack to pick Lock. Makes no sense just like the Rodgers pick didn't. IMO Cousins is a better QB than Brad. I liked Brad and I knew when Denny wanted RC as the main guy the game was up for that core of players and it was.

Rodgers made some sense because Favre was towards the end of his career. Rodgers still has a lot of time left.

[StumpHunter]

Rodgers wasn't supposed to make it to 25.

I seen mocks with him sliding. There are better QBs, supposedly, in front of him. But he won't be picked even if he's there. That would be a huge mistake. The guy has faults but played plenty of football and improved each year and has a great arm.

Giants, Bengals, Miami and Denver all need QBs. With Murray going #1 most likely, and Lock being in the top 5 QBs in this year's draft, he is likely gone by 18

[CharVike]

I seen mocks with him sliding. There are better QBs, supposedly, in front of him. But he won't be picked even if he's there. That would be a huge mistake. The guy has faults but played plenty of football and improved each year and has a great arm.

Giants, Bengals, Miami and Denver all need QBs. With Murray going #1 most likely, and Lock being in the top 5 QBs in this year's draft, he is likely gone by 18

This is an interesting year for QBs. I wouldn't pick Murray at 18 because he's too short. And this Haskins is a one year player. I just like Lock better from a physical skill and playing time perspective. But those 4 teams you mentioned could clear the deck.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Giants, Bengals, Miami and Denver all need QBs. With Murray going #1 most likely, and Lock being in the top 5 QBs in this year's draft, he is likely gone by 18

This is an interesting year for QBs. I wouldn't pick Murray at 18 because he's too short. And this Haskins is a one year player. I just like Lock better from a physical skill and playing time perspective. But those 4 teams you mentioned could clear the deck.

I would think that Washington drafts a QB. Keenum blows and Alex Smith would be lucky to ever play again. So essentially that's 5 teams that need QBs before us. I dont see us drafting one early unless something crazy happened

[StumpHunter]

This is an interesting year for QBs. I wouldn't pick Murray at 18 because he's too short. And this Haskins is a one year player. I just like Lock better from a physical skill and playing time perspective. But those 4 teams you mentioned could clear the deck.

I would think that Washington drafts a QB. Keenum blows and Alex Smith would be lucky to ever play again. So essentially that's 5 teams that need QBs before us. I dont see us drafting one early unless something crazy happened

I don't think Washington brought in Keenum to be a starter full time, so you are probably right. They are paying him 3.5 million, which is on the low side for a good backup (Denver is paying him the other 3.5 million of his salary).

It would be good news for the Vikings if all of those teams do draft a QB in the first this year, since presumably that would make those teams not be in the market for a rookie next season, the year we should be in the market for a rookie QB in the first. Plus, for every QB taken before the Vikes, there is one more player at a position the Vikings might actually take at 18.

[CharVike]

I would think that Washington drafts a QB. Keenum blows and Alex Smith would be lucky to ever play again. So essentially that's 5 teams that need QBs before us. I dont see us drafting one early unless something crazy happened

I don't think Washington brought in Keenum to be a starter full time, so you are probably right. They are paying him 3.5 million, which is on the low side for a good backup (Denver is paying him the other 3.5 million of his salary).

It would be good news for the Vikings if all of those teams do draft a QB in the first this year, since presumably that would make those teams not be in the market for a rookie next season, the year we should be in the market for a rookie QB in the first. Plus, for every QB taken before the Vikes, there is one more player at a position the Vikings might actually take at 18.

To me this QB class looks weak. Like this Murray is considered the best. He's 5 10. I wouldn't even consider him until much later in the draft. You can't fix height. And the O St guy hasn't played much and the supporting cast was great. Especially the OL. If there is a run on QBs that would be great for us. We can justify any position so pick the best impact guy.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I would think that Washington drafts a QB. Keenum blows and Alex Smith would be lucky to ever play again. So essentially that's 5 teams that need QBs before us. I dont see us drafting one early unless something crazy happened

I don't think Washington brought in Keenum to be a starter full time, so you are probably right. They are paying him 3.5 million, which is on the low side for a good backup (Denver is paying him the other 3.5 million of his salary).

It would be good news for the Vikings if all of those teams do draft a QB in the first this year, since presumably that would make those teams not be in the market for a rookie next season, the year we should be in the market for a rookie QB in the first. Plus, for every QB taken before the Vikes, there is one more player at a position the Vikings might actually take at 18.

Yeah exactly. I mean, this year is a huge year for Cousins but either way, I think they should definitely be looking into it possibly this year or next. I mean we still dont have a backup outside of Sloter so they need to do something there. But it sets up quite well for us because like you said, every QB taken drops our player needs that much further so we have a good shot of drafting what we truly need and then if we can draft well enough this year, we can take that shot on a QB next year and be set up well for the future.

[StumpHunter]

I don't think Washington brought in Keenum to be a starter full time, so you are probably right. They are paying him 3.5 million, which is on the low side for a good backup (Denver is paying him the other 3.5 million of his salary).

It would be good news for the Vikings if all of those teams do draft a QB in the first this year, since presumably that would make those teams not be in the market for a rookie next season, the year we should be in the market for a rookie QB in the first. Plus, for every QB taken before the Vikes, there is one more player at a position the Vikings might actually take at 18.

To me this QB class looks weak. Like this Murray is considered the best. He's 5 10. I wouldn't even consider him until much later in the draft. You can't fix height. And the O St guy hasn't played much and the supporting cast was great. Especially the OL. If there is a run on QBs that would be great for us. We can justify any position so pick the best impact guy.

Generally when a team feels this strongly about a player, like AZ clearly does about Murray, there is a reason for it. Haskins slow 40 time has me more down on him than I was, we saw in 2016 and 2018 how badly things can go with a QB who struggles to avoid the pass rush.

[CharVike]

To me this QB class looks weak. Like this Murray is considered the best. He's 5 10. I wouldn't even consider him until much later in the draft. You can't fix height. And the O St guy hasn't played much and the supporting cast was great. Especially the OL. If there is a run on QBs that would be great for us. We can justify any position so pick the best impact guy.

Generally when a team feels this strongly about a player, like AZ clearly does about Murray, there is a reason for it. Haskins slow 40 time has me more down on him than I was, we saw in 2016 and 2018 how badly things can go with a QB who struggles to avoid the pass rush.

I don't understand what AZ is doing. Is Rosen a total bust? This must be a smoke screen. Typically that 1st pick is worth a ton so they show interest in this guy. But I don't feel any of these top QBs are that great. There are some that appear to be developmental guys. I'm a believer a guy needs the physical skills (size,arm) first and then hope the rest works out. I've seen us make this mistake in the past (Teddy, Ponder) pop gun arms. If AZ wants Rosen out we should offer a 5th rounder for him. If he's that bad AZ will take that in a heart beat. The guy was a rookie with a terrible OL. He did some good things. This Murray is a great marketer. His size should knock him out as a 1st round candidate. Now it's 1st overall. Teams would be offering up everything if this guy was so great. Some say Rosen's head is screwed up but that has been said about some very good QBs before. Farve being one of them.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Generally when a team feels this strongly about a player, like AZ clearly does about Murray, there is a reason for it. Haskins slow 40 time has me more down on him than I was, we saw in 2016 and 2018 how badly things can go with a QB who struggles to avoid the pass rush.

I don't understand what AZ is doing. Is Rosen a total bust? This must be a smoke screen. Typically that 1st pick is worth a ton so they show interest in this guy. But I don't feel any of these top QBs are that great. There are some that appear to be developmental guys. I'm a believer a guy needs the physical skills (size,arm) first and then hope the rest works out. I've seen us make this mistake in the past (Teddy, Ponder) pop gun arms. If AZ wants Rosen out we should offer a 5th rounder for him. If he's that bad AZ will take that in a heart beat. The guy was a rookie with a terrible OL. He did some good things. This Murray is a great marketer. His size should knock him out as a 1st round candidate. Now it's 1st overall. Teams would be offering up everything if this guy was so great. Some say Rosen's head is screwed up but that has been said about some very good QBs before. Farve being one of them.

I have no clue what Arizona is doing either but they definitely arent taking a 5th for Rosen. Either way, giving up on Rosen this quick is way to premature if you ask me. I'd be trading down with that pick for sure and continue to rebuild.

[StumpHunter]

I don't understand what AZ is doing. Is Rosen a total bust? This must be a smoke screen. Typically that 1st pick is worth a ton so they show interest in this guy. But I don't feel any of these top QBs are that great. There are some that appear to be developmental guys. I'm a believer a guy needs the physical skills (size,arm) first and then hope the rest works out. I've seen us make this mistake in the past (Teddy, Ponder) pop gun arms. If AZ wants Rosen out we should offer a 5th rounder for him. If he's that bad AZ will take that in a heart beat. The guy was a rookie with a terrible OL. He did some good things. This Murray is a great marketer. His size should knock him out as a 1st round candidate. Now it's 1st overall. Teams would be offering up everything if this guy was so great. Some say Rosen's head is screwed up but that has been said about some very good QBs before. Farve being one of them.

I have no clue what Arizona is doing either but they definitely arent taking a 5th for Rosen. Either way, giving up on Rosen this quick is way to premature if you ask me. I'd be trading down with that pick for sure and continue to rebuild.

You look at Rosen's numbers, and they read like a 3rd string QB. He had two games with a passer rating over 80, none over 90. It isn't even like he improved on the year and even struggled against a very bad Atlanta defense towards the end of the season. Even Ponder had games in his rookie season where he broke 100. I know their coaching and talent on offense weren't great, but playing that poorly for that many games is inexcusable.

They know what they have, and judging by the lack of interest for Rosen by other teams, so does the rest of the NFL.

[vikeinmontana]

Generally when a team feels this strongly about a player, like AZ clearly does about Murray, there is a reason for it. Haskins slow 40 time has me more down on him than I was, we saw in 2016 and 2018 how badly things can go with a QB who struggles to avoid the pass rush.

I don't understand what AZ is doing. Is Rosen a total bust? This must be a smoke screen. Typically that 1st pick is worth a ton so they show interest in this guy. But I don't feel any of these top QBs are that great. There are some that appear to be developmental guys. I'm a believer a guy needs the physical skills (size,arm) first and then hope the rest works out. I've seen us make this mistake in the past (Teddy, Ponder) pop gun arms. If AZ wants Rosen out we should offer a 5th rounder for him. If he's that bad AZ will take that in a heart beat. The guy was a rookie with a terrible OL. He did some good things. This Murray is a great marketer. His size should knock him out as a 1st round candidate. Now it's 1st overall. Teams would be offering up everything if this guy was so great. Some say Rosen's head is screwed up but that has been said about some very good QBs before. Farve being one of them.

The game is changing right before your eyes. And will likely continue to change right before your eyes. I'm not disregarding size all together. But I've heard several GM's and former GM's on record say that the emphasis on size isn't what it was even 10 years ago. Guys like Brees, then Wilson and last year Mayfield are changing that perception.

Accuracy and vision seem to be what most teams are looking for and by all accounts Murray has both. Sure, seeing over a huge o-line would be difficult if you're a tiny statue behind that o-line. But so much of the game takes place on the move outside of the pocket anymore.

I'm not proclaiming Murray is a shoe-in #1 pick and destined to be great. I'm just saying that you hear far more FANS bring up height these days than you do coaches, GM's, etc.

[S197]

This is why Murray is going #1

https://twitter.com/PFF_Jeff/status/110 ... 35392?s=19

[Pondering Her Percy]

I have no clue what Arizona is doing either but they definitely arent taking a 5th for Rosen. Either way, giving up on Rosen this quick is way to premature if you ask me. I'd be trading down with that pick for sure and continue to rebuild.

You look at Rosen's numbers, and they read like a 3rd string QB. He had two games with a passer rating over 80, none over 90. It isn't even like he improved on the year and even struggled against a very bad Atlanta defense towards the end of the season. Even Ponder had games in his rookie season where he broke 100. I know their coaching and talent on offense weren't great, but playing that poorly for that many games is inexcusable.

They know what they have, and judging by the lack of interest for Rosen by other teams, so does the rest of the NFL.

He was a rookie on a terrible team. Look at Jared Goff his rookie year or Mitch Trubisky. Heck even Peyton Manning his rookie year. By no means am I saying Rosen will be good or bad. It’s just simply WAY too early to tell. It’s literally unheard of for a team to dump their first round QB after 1 year. Peyton Manning threw 28 interceptions his rookie year. Double what Rosen threw. Granted he threw for over double the TDs but the point is, a rookie year is tough to judge when it comes to a QB.

Rosen had very little help. Talk about a team with a bad OL.....one of the best RBs in the game couldn’t go forward. That’s a team that TRULY couldn’t run block. That’s why I don’t buy when guys say our OL couldn’t run block this year. David Johnson averaged 3.6 YPC. Cook averaged an entire yard better per carry at 4.6 and got 130 less carries than Johnson did. Our OL COULD run block but our clueless OC didn’t give him the ball and ignored the run game. We werent great at run blocking by any means but we were good enough to have a top 15 run game or better. That’s why I always said nobody can sit there and tell me we CANT run the ball with cook and Murray. They are way too good of a tandem to just not produce. I would 100% guarantee that if cook got 260 carries last year like Johnson did, he’d be nowhere near 3.6 YPC.

Either way, giving up on Rosen now is way too premature IMO. You just wasted a lot of draft capital when you’re trying to rebuild on a QB and are throwing in the towel after 1 year? They are crazy not to trade down and stock up on picks. Just my two cents