Decision 2020: Fire, Extend or Wait Edition

[StumpHunter]

Decision 2020: Fire, Extend or Wait Edition

With Rick getting extended this week, Spielman, Zimmer and Cousins are now locked up until 2020. This means that in all likelihood, what happens in the 2019 will decide whether or not the Vikings fire or extend these three polarizing figures. It is generally a good idea to not go into a season with your starting QB, GM or HC on the last year of their contract, if you want to keep them around, so assuming the Wilfs know what they are doing, the 2019 offseason should be a big one for the Vikings.

So what would it take you all to want to Fire, Extend, or Wait it out with these three?

For me, there is no waiting it out and seeing what any of these three do in 2020 before making a decision. 2019 will tell us all we need to know about what 2020 will hold if we stand pat, so fire or extend:

Rick: He needs to find multiple impact players in this year’s draft, and prove he has some idea of what a good offensive player looks like. The team needs to at least be 10-6 and compete for a SB. His fate is tied directly to the QB, and if we continue to see the QB fail to compete against playoff caliber teams, he should be fired.

Zimmer: The team needs to make the playoffs and any loss in the playoffs needs to be because the talent wasn’t there, not because he was outcoached…unless that loss is in the NFCCG or SB.

Cousins: I won’t post individual QB stats as any sort of reason to keep Cousins. He proved last season that individual stats mean nothing if the offense sucks. So I will need a top 10 scoring offense from Kirk Cousins and a competitive performance in the playoffs out of the guy, or we need to draft his replacement in the 2020 draft. I know there is little chance of him not starting in 2020, but that is the perfect opportunity to groom a rookie so they are prepared to take over in 2021.

[Sandpounder27]

I agree with your assessment. I’m not the kind of guy that wants people fired at the first sign of a hiccup or two, but all 3 of these guys have been in the NFL long enough that we know what their capabilities are. If they can’t get it together and make progress this year, I would have no problem making a change at all 3 positions.

[J. Kapp 11]

I won't go into what I think the Vikings SHOULD do. That depends a lot on what happens in 2019, mentioned in the OP. I will comment on what I think the Vikings WILL do.

Spielman is not getting fired. If I were a betting man, I'd bet on him remaining the Vikings' GM beyond 2020. Why? Because the Wilfs love him. It's that simple. The only way he gets fired is if the team goes completely down the tubes, like 4-12 or something. Can't see that happening with the talent on our roster.

Zimmer is more likely to retire than get fired. The Wilfs also love Zimmer, as does Spielman, so I don't see him getting fired except for the same dire circumstances as Spielman. However, Zimmer does turn 63 in June, which is getting pretty long in the tooth for an NFL head coach. I could see him retiring after 2020 (he'd be 65 if he coached in 2021). The thing standing against that, however, is that since his wife died, he's alone on an enormous ranch in Kentucky. He probably needs the social aspect of coaching so that he doesn't go crazy.

Cousins is the one you're likely correct about. I agree, if he has another big-stat/small-win season, the Vikings will need to look for a successor. But here's the problem. They have too much talent to lose enough games to fall into the Top 10 in the draft, so any QB they get is going to have all the same warts as all the other QBs they've drafted post-Culpepper. You pretty much have to draft in the Top 10 to have any chance at a true franchise QB, and even that doesn't guarantee anything. Baker Mayfield was great last year ... all the other hyped QBs were garbage. Rosen, Allen and Jackson (not Top-10) are likely to remain garbage. And last year was supposed to be the greatest QB class since '83.

And for the record, Zimmer only got out-coached in one playoff game of his three, and that was the '17 NFCC Game. They had really good Seattle team beat in '15 until Blair Walsh turned back into Blair Walsh, and they beat the Saints in '17. The Eagles game was definitely a stinker.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I won't go into what I think the Vikings SHOULD do. That depends a lot on what happens in 2019, mentioned in the OP. I will comment on what I think the Vikings WILL do.

Spielman is not getting fired. If I were a betting man, I'd bet on him remaining the Vikings' GM beyond 2020. Why? Because the Wilfs love him. It's that simple. The only way he gets fired is if the team goes completely down the tubes, like 4-12 or something. Can't see that happening with the talent on our roster.

Zimmer is more likely to retire than get fired. The Wilfs also love Zimmer, as does Spielman, so I don't see him getting fired except for the same dire circumstances as Spielman. However, Zimmer does turn 63 in June, which is getting pretty long in the tooth for an NFL head coach. I could see him retiring after 2020 (he'd be 65 if he coached in 2021). The thing standing against that, however, is that since his wife died, he's alone on an enormous ranch in Kentucky. He probably needs the social aspect of coaching so that he doesn't go crazy.

Cousins is the one you're likely correct about. I agree, if he has another big-stat/small-win season, the Vikings will need to look for a successor. But here's the problem. They have too much talent to lose enough games to fall into the Top 10 in the draft, so any QB they get is going to have all the same warts as all the other QBs they've drafted post-Culpepper. You pretty much have to draft in the Top 10 to have any chance at a true franchise QB, and even that doesn't guarantee anything. Baker Mayfield was great last year ... all the other hyped QBs were garbage. Rosen, Allen and Jackson (not Top-10) are likely to remain garbage. And last year was supposed to be the greatest QB class since '83.

And for the record, Zimmer only got out-coached in one playoff game of his three, and that was the '17 NFCC Game. They had really good Seattle team beat in '15 until Blair Walsh turned back into Blair Walsh, and they beat the Saints in '17. The Eagles game was definitely a stinker.

None of the three are going anywhere IMO. 2019 will hinge on a lot of that but I dont see us having THAT bad of a season either. I personally think Spielman and Zimmer have built this team better than many teams in the NFL and thats through the draft. And in turn, we have the luxury our current roster. Granted improvements need to be made and the team needs to come together but there hasnt been a coach we've had since Denny that I truly respected like I do Mike Zimmer. I love his attitude, his demeanor, his love and passion for his players, everything about the guy. And guys can bring up who Spielman drafted 15 years ago in Miami and all this and that but bottom line is, this team wouldnt have the players it does on it if it wasnt for Spielman. I'm a Kirk Cousins fan but I do want to see Kirk improve in some areas. He was our best shot last offseason so I was never opposed to signing him. I think he's an excellent passer. If I had to wish for one thing with him and this team, would be to provide balance around him with even an average OL. Hammer the run, get them biting on play action, protect your QB and play solid defense. That can win this team a SB 100%. I think the 2019 Vikings are going to be a complete different and much better overall team. Quote me on it

[WallytheVike]

I won't go into what I think the Vikings SHOULD do. That depends a lot on what happens in 2019, mentioned in the OP. I will comment on what I think the Vikings WILL do.

Spielman is not getting fired. If I were a betting man, I'd bet on him remaining the Vikings' GM beyond 2020. Why? Because the Wilfs love him. It's that simple. The only way he gets fired is if the team goes completely down the tubes, like 4-12 or something. Can't see that happening with the talent on our roster.

Zimmer is more likely to retire than get fired. The Wilfs also love Zimmer, as does Spielman, so I don't see him getting fired except for the same dire circumstances as Spielman. However, Zimmer does turn 63 in June, which is getting pretty long in the tooth for an NFL head coach. I could see him retiring after 2020 (he'd be 65 if he coached in 2021). The thing standing against that, however, is that since his wife died, he's alone on an enormous ranch in Kentucky. He probably needs the social aspect of coaching so that he doesn't go crazy.

Cousins is the one you're likely correct about. I agree, if he has another big-stat/small-win season, the Vikings will need to look for a successor. But here's the problem. They have too much talent to lose enough games to fall into the Top 10 in the draft, so any QB they get is going to have all the same warts as all the other QBs they've drafted post-Culpepper. You pretty much have to draft in the Top 10 to have any chance at a true franchise QB, and even that doesn't guarantee anything. Baker Mayfield was great last year ... all the other hyped QBs were garbage. Rosen, Allen and Jackson (not Top-10) are likely to remain garbage. And last year was supposed to be the greatest QB class since '83.

And for the record, Zimmer only got out-coached in one playoff game of his three, and that was the '17 NFCC Game. They had really good Seattle team beat in '15 until Blair Walsh turned back into Blair Walsh, and they beat the Saints in '17. The Eagles game was definitely a stinker.

None of the three are going anywhere IMO. 2019 will hinge on a lot of that but I dont see us having THAT bad of a season either. I personally think Spielman and Zimmer have built this team better than many teams in the NFL and thats through the draft. And in turn, we have the luxury our current roster. Granted improvements need to be made and the team needs to come together but there hasnt been a coach we've had since Denny that I truly respected like I do Mike Zimmer. I love his attitude, his demeanor, his love and passion for his players, everything about the guy. And guys can bring up who Spielman drafted 15 years ago in Miami and all this and that but bottom line is, this team wouldnt have the players it does on it if it wasnt for Spielman. I'm a Kirk Cousins fan but I do want to see Kirk improve in some areas. He was our best shot last offseason so I was never opposed to signing him. I think he's an excellent passer. If I had to wish for one thing with him and this team, would be to provide balance around him with even an average OL. Hammer the run, get them biting on play action, protect your QB and play solid defense. That can win this team a SB 100%. I think the 2019 Vikings are going to be a complete different and much better overall team. Quote me on it

I'm thinking like you PHP, They have built a good team and they probably deserve a little more credit. Where they've fallen short is drafting or signing offensive lineman otherwise they've done a fair job the last 4 years. If you ask me it's an easy fix they just need to pick the right guys. Like you said Denny Green was the last guy who new what he was doing. I don't want to be the team that changes coaches every other year. You win with consistency all you have to do is look at teams like New England and Pittsburgh and then look at Cleveland.They switch qb's and head coaches more than anyone and they pay for it. When it comes to Cousins I'd give him a little more time and we'll see what he can really do. Statistically he had a pretty good season. If we don't miss the kick in Green Bay we're in the playoffs and we're probably having a different conversation. Yes it wasn't the year we expected but it sure wasn't as bad as some are making it out to be. If things blow up and we fall apart this year I probably would be ok with moving on but I think the chances of finding someone better than Zimmer is a long shot at best. Green Bay is going to find this out. They've been lucky enough to have a couple coaches in a row that got them Super Bowls along with 2 hall of fame QB's. Before that they were nothing but door mats. Yes I know they have a number of championships but only 2 in the modern era. Skol Vikes!

[StumpHunter]

I won't go into what I think the Vikings SHOULD do. That depends a lot on what happens in 2019, mentioned in the OP. I will comment on what I think the Vikings WILL do.

Spielman is not getting fired. If I were a betting man, I'd bet on him remaining the Vikings' GM beyond 2020. Why? Because the Wilfs love him. It's that simple. The only way he gets fired is if the team goes completely down the tubes, like 4-12 or something. Can't see that happening with the talent on our roster.

Zimmer is more likely to retire than get fired. The Wilfs also love Zimmer, as does Spielman, so I don't see him getting fired except for the same dire circumstances as Spielman. However, Zimmer does turn 63 in June, which is getting pretty long in the tooth for an NFL head coach. I could see him retiring after 2020 (he'd be 65 if he coached in 2021). The thing standing against that, however, is that since his wife died, he's alone on an enormous ranch in Kentucky. He probably needs the social aspect of coaching so that he doesn't go crazy.

Cousins is the one you're likely correct about. I agree, if he has another big-stat/small-win season, the Vikings will need to look for a successor. But here's the problem. They have too much talent to lose enough games to fall into the Top 10 in the draft, so any QB they get is going to have all the same warts as all the other QBs they've drafted post-Culpepper. You pretty much have to draft in the Top 10 to have any chance at a true franchise QB, and even that doesn't guarantee anything. Baker Mayfield was great last year ... all the other hyped QBs were garbage. Rosen, Allen and Jackson (not Top-10) are likely to remain garbage. And last year was supposed to be the greatest QB class since '83.

And for the record, Zimmer only got out-coached in one playoff game of his three, and that was the '17 NFCC Game. They had really good Seattle team beat in '15 until Blair Walsh turned back into Blair Walsh, and they beat the Saints in '17. The Eagles game was definitely a stinker.

I think you are pretty close to being right about what WILL happen.

Agree about Zimmer in the playoffs. He is the one of the three I would want to stick around the most, but think he might be the sacrificial lamb if things don't go right this season.

[Maelstrom88]

I won't go into what I think the Vikings SHOULD do. That depends a lot on what happens in 2019, mentioned in the OP. I will comment on what I think the Vikings WILL do.

Spielman is not getting fired. If I were a betting man, I'd bet on him remaining the Vikings' GM beyond 2020. Why? Because the Wilfs love him. It's that simple. The only way he gets fired is if the team goes completely down the tubes, like 4-12 or something. Can't see that happening with the talent on our roster.

Zimmer is more likely to retire than get fired. The Wilfs also love Zimmer, as does Spielman, so I don't see him getting fired except for the same dire circumstances as Spielman. However, Zimmer does turn 63 in June, which is getting pretty long in the tooth for an NFL head coach. I could see him retiring after 2020 (he'd be 65 if he coached in 2021). The thing standing against that, however, is that since his wife died, he's alone on an enormous ranch in Kentucky. He probably needs the social aspect of coaching so that he doesn't go crazy.

Cousins is the one you're likely correct about. I agree, if he has another big-stat/small-win season, the Vikings will need to look for a successor. But here's the problem. They have too much talent to lose enough games to fall into the Top 10 in the draft, so any QB they get is going to have all the same warts as all the other QBs they've drafted post-Culpepper. You pretty much have to draft in the Top 10 to have any chance at a true franchise QB, and even that doesn't guarantee anything. Baker Mayfield was great last year ... all the other hyped QBs were garbage. Rosen, Allen and Jackson (not Top-10) are likely to remain garbage. And last year was supposed to be the greatest QB class since '83.

And for the record, Zimmer only got out-coached in one playoff game of his three, and that was the '17 NFCC Game. They had really good Seattle team beat in '15 until Blair Walsh turned back into Blair Walsh, and they beat the Saints in '17. The Eagles game was definitely a stinker.

I think Darnold will end up being very good. Vikings should draft Lock if he somehow falls to 18. Not that I'm sold on him being great, but he does have the potential to be and at 18 that's too good of a potential home run to pass up.

[StumpHunter]

I won't go into what I think the Vikings SHOULD do. That depends a lot on what happens in 2019, mentioned in the OP. I will comment on what I think the Vikings WILL do.

Spielman is not getting fired. If I were a betting man, I'd bet on him remaining the Vikings' GM beyond 2020. Why? Because the Wilfs love him. It's that simple. The only way he gets fired is if the team goes completely down the tubes, like 4-12 or something. Can't see that happening with the talent on our roster.

Zimmer is more likely to retire than get fired. The Wilfs also love Zimmer, as does Spielman, so I don't see him getting fired except for the same dire circumstances as Spielman. However, Zimmer does turn 63 in June, which is getting pretty long in the tooth for an NFL head coach. I could see him retiring after 2020 (he'd be 65 if he coached in 2021). The thing standing against that, however, is that since his wife died, he's alone on an enormous ranch in Kentucky. He probably needs the social aspect of coaching so that he doesn't go crazy.

Cousins is the one you're likely correct about. I agree, if he has another big-stat/small-win season, the Vikings will need to look for a successor. But here's the problem. They have too much talent to lose enough games to fall into the Top 10 in the draft, so any QB they get is going to have all the same warts as all the other QBs they've drafted post-Culpepper. You pretty much have to draft in the Top 10 to have any chance at a true franchise QB, and even that doesn't guarantee anything. Baker Mayfield was great last year ... all the other hyped QBs were garbage. Rosen, Allen and Jackson (not Top-10) are likely to remain garbage. And last year was supposed to be the greatest QB class since '83.

And for the record, Zimmer only got out-coached in one playoff game of his three, and that was the '17 NFCC Game. They had really good Seattle team beat in '15 until Blair Walsh turned back into Blair Walsh, and they beat the Saints in '17. The Eagles game was definitely a stinker.

None of the three are going anywhere IMO. 2019 will hinge on a lot of that but I dont see us having THAT bad of a season either. I personally think Spielman and Zimmer have built this team better than many teams in the NFL and thats through the draft. And in turn, we have the luxury our current roster. Granted improvements need to be made and the team needs to come together but there hasnt been a coach we've had since Denny that I truly respected like I do Mike Zimmer. I love his attitude, his demeanor, his love and passion for his players, everything about the guy. And guys can bring up who Spielman drafted 15 years ago in Miami and all this and that but bottom line is, this team wouldnt have the players it does on it if it wasnt for Spielman. I'm a Kirk Cousins fan but I do want to see Kirk improve in some areas. He was our best shot last offseason so I was never opposed to signing him. I think he's an excellent passer. If I had to wish for one thing with him and this team, would be to provide balance around him with even an average OL. Hammer the run, get them biting on play action, protect your QB and play solid defense. That can win this team a SB 100%. I think the 2019 Vikings are going to be a complete different and much better overall team. Quote me on it

They should be a good enough team to win in 2019. What if they don't though?

What would it take for you to want to fire/draft a replacement for these three?

[StumpHunter]

I won't go into what I think the Vikings SHOULD do. That depends a lot on what happens in 2019, mentioned in the OP. I will comment on what I think the Vikings WILL do.

Spielman is not getting fired. If I were a betting man, I'd bet on him remaining the Vikings' GM beyond 2020. Why? Because the Wilfs love him. It's that simple. The only way he gets fired is if the team goes completely down the tubes, like 4-12 or something. Can't see that happening with the talent on our roster.

Zimmer is more likely to retire than get fired. The Wilfs also love Zimmer, as does Spielman, so I don't see him getting fired except for the same dire circumstances as Spielman. However, Zimmer does turn 63 in June, which is getting pretty long in the tooth for an NFL head coach. I could see him retiring after 2020 (he'd be 65 if he coached in 2021). The thing standing against that, however, is that since his wife died, he's alone on an enormous ranch in Kentucky. He probably needs the social aspect of coaching so that he doesn't go crazy.

Cousins is the one you're likely correct about. I agree, if he has another big-stat/small-win season, the Vikings will need to look for a successor. But here's the problem. They have too much talent to lose enough games to fall into the Top 10 in the draft, so any QB they get is going to have all the same warts as all the other QBs they've drafted post-Culpepper. You pretty much have to draft in the Top 10 to have any chance at a true franchise QB, and even that doesn't guarantee anything. Baker Mayfield was great last year ... all the other hyped QBs were garbage. Rosen, Allen and Jackson (not Top-10) are likely to remain garbage. And last year was supposed to be the greatest QB class since '83.

And for the record, Zimmer only got out-coached in one playoff game of his three, and that was the '17 NFCC Game. They had really good Seattle team beat in '15 until Blair Walsh turned back into Blair Walsh, and they beat the Saints in '17. The Eagles game was definitely a stinker.

I think Darnold will end up being very good. Vikings should draft Lock if he somehow falls to 18. Not that I'm sold on him being great, but he does have the potential to be and at 18 that's too good of a potential home run to pass up.

I don't like the idea of giving up two years of a rookie QB contract sitting behind Cousins. That third year of the rookie QB deal is where a lot of teams find the most success, and if we draft a QB this season, that third year will be our QB's first season starting.

[Maelstrom88]

I think Darnold will end up being very good. Vikings should draft Lock if he somehow falls to 18. Not that I'm sold on him being great, but he does have the potential to be and at 18 that's too good of a potential home run to pass up.

I don't like the idea of giving up two years of a rookie QB contract sitting behind Cousins. That third year of the rookie QB deal is where a lot of teams find the most success, and if we draft a QB this season, that third year will be our QB's first season starting.

Not necessarily. He might beat Kirk out in year 2. Especially if the braintrust is fired after this year.

[StumpHunter]

I don't like the idea of giving up two years of a rookie QB contract sitting behind Cousins. That third year of the rookie QB deal is where a lot of teams find the most success, and if we draft a QB this season, that third year will be our QB's first season starting.

Not necessarily. He might beat Kirk out in year 2. Especially if the braintrust is fired after this year.

A 31 million backup would be a tough pill to swallow, but you might be right if the coach and GM deciding to sit Cousins aren't the ones responsible for signing him.

[Maelstrom88]

Not necessarily. He might beat Kirk out in year 2. Especially if the braintrust is fired after this year.

A 31 million backup would be a tough pill to swallow, but you might be right if the coach and GM deciding to sit Cousins aren't the ones responsible for signing him.

I'm not in love with Lock by any stretch but at 18 the value is too good imo. He won't make it to 18 anyway so it's a moot point.

[Pondering Her Percy]

None of the three are going anywhere IMO. 2019 will hinge on a lot of that but I dont see us having THAT bad of a season either. I personally think Spielman and Zimmer have built this team better than many teams in the NFL and thats through the draft. And in turn, we have the luxury our current roster. Granted improvements need to be made and the team needs to come together but there hasnt been a coach we've had since Denny that I truly respected like I do Mike Zimmer. I love his attitude, his demeanor, his love and passion for his players, everything about the guy. And guys can bring up who Spielman drafted 15 years ago in Miami and all this and that but bottom line is, this team wouldnt have the players it does on it if it wasnt for Spielman. I'm a Kirk Cousins fan but I do want to see Kirk improve in some areas. He was our best shot last offseason so I was never opposed to signing him. I think he's an excellent passer. If I had to wish for one thing with him and this team, would be to provide balance around him with even an average OL. Hammer the run, get them biting on play action, protect your QB and play solid defense. That can win this team a SB 100%. I think the 2019 Vikings are going to be a complete different and much better overall team. Quote me on it

They should be a good enough team to win in 2019. What if they don't though?

What would it take for you to want to fire/draft a replacement for these three?

I mean it's hard to say without seeing what 2019 entails. So many things could happen in a season. We could go on a run and stay healthy all year, we could get crushed by injuries, guys can go AWOL, coaches can pass away, I mean we saw things we'd never expect this past season. I mean if we start going 4-12 then clearly they needs to be a change. But again, I cant really say until I see what happens. But I dont see us going 4-12 either.

[mansquatch]

In my view there are different magnitudes of change that could occur. If the team does a complete face plant this year then no one is safe. However, I think that is the least likely outcome. They should have been an 10-12 win club last year, but had issues with injuries, bad luck, and bad coaching that pushed it down to 8 wins.

Zimmer continues to be an elite defensive signal caller. But is he an elite HC? Right now I'd say he is good to great. It all comes back to the issues on the offensive side of the ball. This gets to the point I've been making on here of late, are the current offensive coaches the right group of guys that can get it done here? We'll see, as I've said repeatedly, the results of these hires will likely have the biggest impact (good or bad) on the 2019 outcome.

Cousins in my mind hasn't yet shown us all he can offer. He didn't give us elite QB play last year, at least not consistently, but I also do not thin the offensive coaches always had him in the best position to succeed either.

I can see a scenario where Spielman stays and Zimmer and Cousins are gone. Spielman, depsite his issues with certain position groups has had a lot of overall success building a competitive roster and well respected NFL coaching staff.

[StumpHunter]

I mean there are valid excuses that aren't on the QB, GM or HC for failed seasons. If Cousins tears his ACL before the season starts, it wouldn't be fair to blame that on any of the three. Cousins has a history of durability, and him getting hurt would torpedo the season for sure. Now if the GM goes out and gives up a first for Blake Bortles if that happens, he should be fired.

Outside of that though, players will get hurt, OC's will call bad games, and guys will under perform. They do for every team, every season and some teams overcome those issues, while others go 8-8.

So without pre-made excuses, what would it take for you all to want to extend, fire or hold off on a decision on, Rick, Zimmer, or Cousins?