StumpHunter wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 11:22 am
I mean there are valid excuses that aren't on the QB, GM or HC for failed seasons. If Cousins tears his ACL before the season starts, it wouldn't be fair to blame that on any of the three. Cousins has a history of durability, and him getting hurt would torpedo the season for sure. Now if the GM goes out and gives up a first for Blake Bortles if that happens, he should be fired.
Outside of that though, players will get hurt, OC's will call bad games, and guys will under perform. They do for every team, every season and some teams overcome those issues, while others go 8-8.
So without pre-made excuses, what would it take for you all to want to extend, fire or hold off on a decision on, Rick, Zimmer, or Cousins?
Cousins has to play out his contract. No way I'd extend him early. He hasn't proven anything. Of course if he were to throw for 5,000 yards and we win the Super Bowl, I'd probably change my tune. But if he has two more seasons of stats but not wins, I'd have no problem moving on, even though I like him.
Zimmer is a tough one for me. I absolutely love the guy. I don't know if he's a great head coach ... he's pretty good, especially defensively. But again, I question his desire to coach much longer, given his age. That's got to be a factor, as much as it's politically incorrect to base a person's job on age. It's not so much whether the Vikings should or shouldn't extend him. For me, it's whether he really wants to keep coaching beyond 2020. Fire him? For me, it would probably be two more seasons like last year. Or a complete collapse this year, like 4-12 or something. Very unlikely.
Same for Rick. Two more disappointing seasons, and I'd say it's time to try someone else.
I know the OP is talking about GM, head coach and QB but we need a good offensive coordinator and especially a good offensive line coach. I'm convinced until we get the offensive line corrected this team isn't going anywhere significant. I suppose that's on Rick to address, but overall he's largely done a good job at most positions.
I'm not confident Cousins can get us to a SB. I see him as the weakest link of the three in this evaluation. Especially behind a weak offensive line. Get the offensive line to average, maybe. Cousins alone can't overcome them. Few QBs outside of Wilson can.
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
People thinking the draft will fix the issues this year don't understand the draft. If we get one starter that will be a very good draft. The rest are depth and projects. IMO Cousins is better than any post Tark QB we have had. Just look at the list of bums and nobodies. Starting with Kramer/Wilson. Both combined had a couple good seasons. But that was a huge time span. The rest of the time they couldn't hit anything. Unfortunately to fix that position we need to tank a season. That's the only way to get the pick spot needed to fill the position. I will give Speilman credit in that he is trying and not stopping to fix the problem. Even the QB that lead us to the Champ game, supposedly, is a joke. No team wants him as a starter. The old Viking GMs would have kept him as the starter. We kept a washed up/ banged up Farve too long. We have a tough road in front of us for sure. But for once we have a functional QB that won't cost us game after game. I've seen that played out over and over.
CharVike wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:19 am
People thinking the draft will fix the issues this year don't understand the draft. If we get one starter that will be a very good draft. The rest are depth and projects. IMO Cousins is better than any post Tark QB we have had. Just look at the list of bums and nobodies. Starting with Kramer/Wilson. Both combined had a couple good seasons. But that was a huge time span. The rest of the time they couldn't hit anything. Unfortunately to fix that position we need to tank a season. That's the only way to get the pick spot needed to fill the position. I will give Speilman credit in that he is trying and not stopping to fix the problem. Even the QB that lead us to the Champ game, supposedly, is a joke. No team wants him as a starter. The old Viking GMs would have kept him as the starter. We kept a washed up/ banged up Farve too long. We have a tough road in front of us for sure. But for once we have a functional QB that won't cost us game after game. I've seen that played out over and over.
We have had quite a few QBs who did not generally cost us games over the years. Johnson, Daunte, Cunningham, Moon, Case, Teddy, etc.
What we never developed was a QB who could consistently put his team on his back and win games and that is what I will need to see Cousins prove he can do.
CharVike wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:19 am
People thinking the draft will fix the issues this year don't understand the draft. If we get one starter that will be a very good draft. The rest are depth and projects. IMO Cousins is better than any post Tark QB we have had. Just look at the list of bums and nobodies. Starting with Kramer/Wilson. Both combined had a couple good seasons. But that was a huge time span. The rest of the time they couldn't hit anything. Unfortunately to fix that position we need to tank a season. That's the only way to get the pick spot needed to fill the position. I will give Speilman credit in that he is trying and not stopping to fix the problem. Even the QB that lead us to the Champ game, supposedly, is a joke. No team wants him as a starter. The old Viking GMs would have kept him as the starter. We kept a washed up/ banged up Farve too long. We have a tough road in front of us for sure. But for once we have a functional QB that won't cost us game after game. I've seen that played out over and over.
We have had quite a few QBs who did not generally cost us games over the years. Johnson, Daunte, Cunningham, Moon, Case, Teddy, etc.
What we never developed was a QB who could consistently put his team on his back and win games and that is what I will need to see Cousins prove he can do.
There's not many QBs who have ever played that could do what you want. What you're looking for never has existed. Maybe Rodgers is close but it certainly wasn't true last season. They couldn't win enough.
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 3:16 pm
We have had quite a few QBs who did not generally cost us games over the years. Johnson, Daunte, Cunningham, Moon, Case, Teddy, etc.
What we never developed was a QB who could consistently put his team on his back and win games and that is what I will need to see Cousins prove he can do.
There's not many QBs who have ever played that could do what you want. What you're looking for never has existed. Maybe Rodgers is close but it certainly wasn't true last season. They couldn't win enough.
Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, Luck and Big Ben are that type of QB. Mahomes, Watson and Wentz might be, it is too early to tell. Ryan, Cam, and Rivers at least make their teams better and compete in the playoffs.
CharVike wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:52 pm
There's not many QBs who have ever played that could do what you want. What you're looking for never has existed. Maybe Rodgers is close but it certainly wasn't true last season. They couldn't win enough.
Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, Luck and Big Ben are that type of QB. Mahomes, Watson and Wentz might be, it is too early to tell. Ryan, Cam, and Rivers at least make their teams better and compete in the playoffs.
Wilson carries the team ok. I think they had a dominate defense when they won it all. They lead the NFL in TOs. There ground game was top notch also. Here's a story.
Reports of friction between defensive standouts and the franchise quarterback are nothing new, but a story published Friday on SI.com by Greg Bishop and Robert Klemko offers previously unknown details of coach Pete Carroll's attempt to protect Russell Wilson from his teammates and how it slowly tore the Seahawks apart. That's what every team wants. That's carrying to you.
The Chargers don't have a good team? Rivers carries them. Look at that group of WRs just to start things off. 87 rating for him in 16. Yea that carried them. They can't get through the playoffs when they do make it.
Cam. One great season. Watson come on. The Eagles were better with Foles. Wentz holds them back.
Rodgers is the best of what you think because his team has a 4 win talent level. And I stated that.
Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, Luck and Big Ben are that type of QB. Mahomes, Watson and Wentz might be, it is too early to tell. Ryan, Cam, and Rivers at least make their teams better and compete in the playoffs.
Wilson carries the team ok. I think they had a dominate defense when they won it all. They lead the NFL in TOs. There ground game was top notch also. Here's a story.
Reports of friction between defensive standouts and the franchise quarterback are nothing new, but a story published Friday on SI.com by Greg Bishop and Robert Klemko offers previously unknown details of coach Pete Carroll's attempt to protect Russell Wilson from his teammates and how it slowly tore the Seahawks apart. That's what every team wants. That's carrying to you.
The Chargers don't have a good team? Rivers carries them. Look at that group of WRs just to start things off. 87 rating for him in 16. Yea that carried them. They can't get through the playoffs when they do make it.
Cam. One great season. Watson come on. The Eagles were better with Foles. Wentz holds them back.
Rodgers is the best of what you think because his team has a 4 win talent level. And I stated that.
I guess I am curious what you think Cousins is bringing to the table then, versus what, say a Brad Johnson brought.
I thought he was brought in to be able to win games like the 2017 NFCCG. Apparently you think no QB could have won that for us (except maybe Rodgers), since the defense didn't play well and it would have required the QB to put the team on his back and win it.
CharVike wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 6:40 pm
Wilson carries the team ok. I think they had a dominate defense when they won it all. They lead the NFL in TOs. There ground game was top notch also. Here's a story.
Reports of friction between defensive standouts and the franchise quarterback are nothing new, but a story published Friday on SI.com by Greg Bishop and Robert Klemko offers previously unknown details of coach Pete Carroll's attempt to protect Russell Wilson from his teammates and how it slowly tore the Seahawks apart. That's what every team wants. That's carrying to you.
The Chargers don't have a good team? Rivers carries them. Look at that group of WRs just to start things off. 87 rating for him in 16. Yea that carried them. They can't get through the playoffs when they do make it.
Cam. One great season. Watson come on. The Eagles were better with Foles. Wentz holds them back.
Rodgers is the best of what you think because his team has a 4 win talent level. And I stated that.
I guess I am curious what you think Cousins is bringing to the table then, versus what, say a Brad Johnson brought.
I thought he was brought in to be able to win games like the 2017 NFCCG. Apparently you think no QB could have won that for us (except maybe Rodgers), since the defense didn't play well and it would have required the QB to put the team on his back and win it.
To be honest, even Rodgers wouldnt have won that game given how our defense played. So whether it was Cousins, Keenum, Rodgers, Montana, Marino, etc. the Vikings werent winning that game. But I will say, Keenum isnt one to put a team on his back and come back from any kind of deficit
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
I guess I am curious what you think Cousins is bringing to the table then, versus what, say a Brad Johnson brought.
I thought he was brought in to be able to win games like the 2017 NFCCG. Apparently you think no QB could have won that for us (except maybe Rodgers), since the defense didn't play well and it would have required the QB to put the team on his back and win it.
To be honest, even Rodgers wouldnt have won that game given how our defense played. So whether it was Cousins, Keenum, Rodgers, Montana, Marino, etc. the Vikings werent winning that game. But I will say, Keenum isnt one to put a team on his back and come back from any kind of deficit
I mean, the Pats defense played worse than ours and Brady at least made it a game. Heck, the Eagles defense played worse than ours and they won the SB with Nick fricken Foles.
Rodgers, Montana, Marino, etc would have kept us in that game too. They wouldn't have thrown a pick six, followed by a 3 and out, the two drives that killed any chance we had at winning that football game. Momentum is huge, and Case gave the Eagles all they needed and then some.
I will say it is interesting that we have lowered our standards from wanting a QB that can take over when the defense is struggling to stating that no QB can possibly win without a shutdown D.
To be honest, even Rodgers wouldnt have won that game given how our defense played. So whether it was Cousins, Keenum, Rodgers, Montana, Marino, etc. the Vikings werent winning that game. But I will say, Keenum isnt one to put a team on his back and come back from any kind of deficit
I mean, the Pats defense played worse than ours and Brady at least made it a game. Heck, the Eagles defense played worse than ours and they won the SB with Nick fricken Foles.
Rodgers, Montana, Marino, etc would have kept us in that game too. They wouldn't have thrown a pick six, followed by a 3 and out, the two drives that killed any chance we had at winning that football game. Momentum is huge, and Case gave the Eagles all they needed and then some.
I will say it is interesting that we have lowered our standards from wanting a QB that can take over when the defense is struggling to stating that no QB can possibly win without a shutdown D.
Nobody has lowered their standards. I'm more or less looking at it as, after the score started to separate, there wasnt a QB out there that was bringing us back from that. Simply because, our D couldnt stop them even if someone was leading us back. If we had a better QB that didnt give away the game like Case did, I'm sure it would've been a fairly competitive game. Either way, Keenum wasnt the answer to that. Even with a bad record against winning teams, I still take Cousins in a game where the QB has to sling it down the field and get points. That's never been Keenums game and clearly he couldnt handle it.
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
I mean, the Pats defense played worse than ours and Brady at least made it a game. Heck, the Eagles defense played worse than ours and they won the SB with Nick fricken Foles.
Rodgers, Montana, Marino, etc would have kept us in that game too. They wouldn't have thrown a pick six, followed by a 3 and out, the two drives that killed any chance we had at winning that football game. Momentum is huge, and Case gave the Eagles all they needed and then some.
I will say it is interesting that we have lowered our standards from wanting a QB that can take over when the defense is struggling to stating that no QB can possibly win without a shutdown D.
Nobody has lowered their standards. I'm more or less looking at it as, after the score started to separate, there wasnt a QB out there that was bringing us back from that. Simply because, our D couldnt stop them even if someone was leading us back. If we had a better QB that didnt give away the game like Case did, I'm sure it would've been a fairly competitive game. Either way, Keenum wasnt the answer to that. Even with a bad record against winning teams, I still take Cousins in a game where the QB has to sling it down the field and get points. That's never been Keenums game and clearly he couldnt handle it.
Beckham to Cleveland? I watched the news conference and he had a hard time acting excited about the trade. I was trying to figure out who the old guy was that was sitting next to Beckham during the news conference. I thought maybe he was a coach but it was Baker Mafield. Anyways they were trying to convince the media they were excited about the trade but I wasn't buying it. We'll see how it works out I guess.
I seen a head line where Brady announces his retirement but I didn't bother reading the article because I'm sure he is just blowing smoke and I don't really care. Skol Vikes!
Nobody has lowered their standards. I'm more or less looking at it as, after the score started to separate, there wasnt a QB out there that was bringing us back from that. Simply because, our D couldnt stop them even if someone was leading us back. If we had a better QB that didnt give away the game like Case did, I'm sure it would've been a fairly competitive game. Either way, Keenum wasnt the answer to that. Even with a bad record against winning teams, I still take Cousins in a game where the QB has to sling it down the field and get points. That's never been Keenums game and clearly he couldnt handle it.
Beckham to Cleveland? I watched the news conference and he had a hard time acting excited about the trade. I was trying to figure out who the old guy was that was sitting next to Beckham during the news conference. I thought maybe he was a coach but it was Baker Mafield. Anyways they were trying to convince the media they were excited about the trade but I wasn't buying it. We'll see how it works out I guess.
I seen a head line where Brady announces his retirement but I didn't bother reading the article because I'm sure he is just blowing smoke and I don't really care. Skol Vikes!
Brady created a fake Twitter account saying he was retiring just because it was April fools day lol
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
A 31 million backup would be a tough pill to swallow, but you might be right if the coach and GM deciding to sit Cousins aren't the ones responsible for signing him.
I'm not in love with Lock by any stretch but at 18 the value is too good imo. He won't make it to 18 anyway so it's a moot point.
Rodgers wasn't supposed to make it to 25.
Vikings fan since Nov. 6, 1966. Annoying Packer fans since Nov. 7, 1966
I'm not in love with Lock by any stretch but at 18 the value is too good imo. He won't make it to 18 anyway so it's a moot point.
Rodgers wasn't supposed to make it to 25.
I seen mocks with him sliding. There are better QBs, supposedly, in front of him. But he won't be picked even if he's there. That would be a huge mistake. The guy has faults but played plenty of football and improved each year and has a great arm.
