Ponder's Done

[Funkytown]

It's pretty simple for me. As long as our playoff hopes are still alive, we should start the better QB. That QB is Cassel. If our playoff hopes are gone, we should play Ponder and/or MBT to help us learn more about our future plans at that position. Despite our rough start, it's still early enough--and the league is just crazy enough--to be thinking about this year. I'll start worrying about next year when it's time. I'm still too concerned about winning though, and I know Cassel gives us the best chance of that. Frazier knows it, too. He better man up and make the right choice--and quit worrying about hurting anyone's feelings. His priority is to win, not keep individual players happy and content. I like Ponder, but someone needs to give him a nice shot in the ribs each week to remind him that he's hurt. I hate to give up on him, but the guy drives me crazy. MBT looks to have more swag and confidence!

[DarthBrooks]

Hopefully.

[UKViking]

If Ponder starts after the bye week Frazier won't just lose the fans, he will lose the locker room as well.

http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/vide ... ca1a1c3953

[psjordan]

@Tex & Mondry

I'm not at all suggesting that Cassel played poorly or that there wasn't a noticable difference in their respective play. There was and he made plays.

This becomes a very simple analysis that does not have to account for every single variable determining a win and a loss.

Whether we won or lost this game, did Cassel play noticeably better than a reasonable person would have expected Ponder to? Preposition position notwithstanding, if the answer is yes, then the QB analysis is done until proven otherwise.

This is no different than Jennings being an improvement at WR. Did we go 4-0 with Jennings? Of course not. Did he improve our WR corps? Most reasonable folks would say yes. Therefore he should start.

No one position or entity controls winning and losing, although in today's NFL the QB and the coaching staff by far have the most impact IMO. The whole idea in putting individual players and coaches to work is to put the best you can out there, and maximize as many good decisions/plays as possible. For right now, that certainly smells like Cassel over Ponder. Was Cassel stupendous? No. Was Ponder the worst in the league? No. It is simply is A better than B right now. Does not matter if Ponder is the 22nd ranked QB and Cassel is the 21st. An upgrade is an upgrade.

As an aside, am I the only one besides AD and the OL that was really, really happy with the speed with which Cassel got AD the handoffs? I do not and did not think Ponder was slow as molasses, but boy was it noticeable to me that the ball got into AD's hands much, much quicker than with Ponder back there. Maybe it was just me.

[Hunter Morrow]

Here is a link provided in the thread that I thought was VERY interesting.

Maybe the reason Peterson keeps getting smashed in the backfield is that Frazier and Musgrave aren't even
"allowing" their QB to check out of obviously run-stopping defense scheme.

Nope, gotta hand it off and have Peterson try to run up the gut and get gang tackled by 3 DLs for -2 yards.

On 2nd-and-10 with 3:29 left, Cassel appeared to check into a pass play and then quickly connected with receiver Jerome Simpson for a nine-yard
gain and a manageable third-down conversion. Two weeks prior, Ponder told reporters he was not given the ability to check out of a run play called when he handed off to running back Adrian Peterson on a 3rd-and-goal in a late-game loss at the Chicago Bears.

"That was a reaction to what the defense was giving us," Cassel said about the call, via WCCO's televised press conference.

What do you mean the quarterback who has started 30 games for this team isn't allowed to check out of
9-in-the-box run defense scenarios? Like what sense does that make? Especially in an offense as predicated around running as this team?

Yet in one game Cassel gets the nod to do that? Or did he just say "Nah, game's on the line. I gotta get a guy on a slant route
to extend this series. I can't set up 3rd and 12 for this team with a foolish handoff against 9-in-the-box for -2 yards."

[VikeMike]

Late to this discussion, but there are two points I wanted to bring up:
1) Cassel was pretty inaccurate in the first half. He missed some basic throws -- it could have been because he was a little juiced, or he was a little rusty, being on the field in a real live game situation for the first time since 2012. But, he was able to make some accurate passes as well in the first half, and settled down quite a bit in the second half. I was encouraged that he was decisive in the pocket and got the ball out so much quicker than Ponder seemingly is able to.
2) the biggest distinction between Cassel and Ponder was Cassel's ability to throw -- and throw down field -- from play-action. It was marked improvement.

I'm not fooling myself -- Cassel isn't the second coming of Dan Marino by any stretch of the imagination. But he gives us e best chance at a competent, balanced offense at the moment. I hope management sees that, too.

It looks like we are back to square one in looking for a long term solution at QB, again.

[Webbfann]

I'd say the jury is out on that. You can't plan 15 years ahead in the NFL. A realistic horizon is 5-7 years and even that can come completely unhinged very quickly with one injury, or one (more) big mistake in the draft. Cassell is only 31 and could easily continue to be an average QB with few turnovers and some exciting downfield completions for that time frame. I'm not saying he will-I know Viking pessimists and Ponder's mom will insist he can't. But it's ridiculous to write him off after one solid good performance when he has plenty of potential years left.

It looks like we are back to square one in looking for a long term solution at QB, again.

[UKno1VIKING]

You know what you didn't see today? Roll outs! Not left, not right. Cassel stood behind that line made quick decisions and got rid of the ball like how it should be done in a WCO, and suddenly our O-line looks awesome. It didn't hurt getting Felton back xD.

I'm sure it's not just coincidence as well that the o-line finally had a solid game since happy feet wasn't playing

[dkoby]

We're cursed.

No top 3 pick.
No playoffs.

It continues.

unfortunately, this is exactly where I'm at now. for those of you taking a moral victory for last second win over a completely terrible team, a team that hasn't been this bad since 1968, you have a rude awakening coming if you think we're making the playoffs. would you really want to show up in the playoffs with this coaching staff?
the ponder /Cassell question is practically irrelevant at this point.
my only hope is that secretly Spielmann and the Wilfs I have decided to empty the cupboard at the end of the year and keep building on the young talent they already acquired.

[Hunter Morrow]

I think Cassel just had jitters in the beginning. First start, golden opportunity, in London.

There was a stretch in the game from the 3rd and 4th where he was 11/11 on his passes for about 100 yards and a touchdown
on a very nice throw to Jennings.

[Webbfann]

Oh, stop being so positive. It clashes with purple.

I think Cassel just had jitters in the beginning. First start, golden opportunity, in London.

There was a stretch in the game from the 3rd and 4th where he was 11/11 on his passes for about 100 yards and a touchdown
on a very nice throw to Jennings.

[mansquatch]

I agree with the Sentiment on here that Cassel should start over Ponder. The big difference for me was the just the overall feeling that the QB wasn't a massive question mark. Cassel made throws and made plays without the boneheaded stuff. He had his issues, but they were nowhere near what we have seen from Ponder.

The concern I have is Leslie Frasier. Frasier has a history of sticking with "his guy" long past the time when it is obvious to everyone that someone else is a better choic. IMO, we saw this with Mcnabb and we are currently seeing it with Josh Robinson over Rhodes. I fear we are going to see it with Ponder over Cassel. It will get UGLY if Frasier pulls that.

[Webbfann]

Yeah but Frazier has ALREADY stuck with Plinkie for a YEAR since it became obvious to many that he couldn't play NFL football. You seem to think this is a new revelation, but if he has half a brain it will become glaringly obvious he's been making a mistake for a long time.

This is my fervent and hopeful wish.

I agree with the Sentiment on here that Cassel should start over Ponder. The big difference for me was the just the overall feeling that the QB wasn't a massive question mark. Cassel made throws and made plays without the boneheaded stuff. He had his issues, but they were nowhere near what we have seen from Ponder.

The concern I have is Leslie Frasier. Frasier has a history of sticking with "his guy" long past the time when it is obvious to everyone that someone else is a better choic. IMO, we saw this with Mcnabb and we are currently seeing it with Josh Robinson over Rhodes. I fear we are going to see it with Ponder over Cassel. It will get UGLY if Frasier pulls that.

[dead_poet]

Per @ESPNStatsInfo, PIT played 8 in box vs. #Vikings 57 pct of time. Most in 2 years. Cassel hit 7 of 10 passes for 77 yards and 1 TD vs. it

That and more in QB Report, posting soon. But minimum requirement of #Vikings QB is to capitalize vs. run defenses. Ponder hasn't always.

[dead_poet]

Jim Souhan: Vikings should name Cassel starter

Cassel completed 16 of 25 passes for 248 yards, two touchdowns and no interceptions. He fumbled once, and was lucky a teammate recovered. He threw one deep pass and one short pass that could have been intercepted. The difference between him and Ponder was not the quality of their poor throws; it was the quality of their quality throws.

They can see what even Londoners new to American football could see: Cassel makes quick decisions and throws. If a receiver runs a down-and-out, the ball is in the air before the receiver comes out of his break. Ponder too often waits for a receiver to get open, then eases the ball in his general direction.

It’s time for the Vikings to stop playing nanny. They didn’t sign a legitimate backup in Ponder’s second year because they didn’t want Ponder to feel pressure. They didn’t consider benching Ponder during seasons or games because they didn’t want to dampen his confidence or incite a controversy.

Sunday night, Frazier kept playing that game, pretending that he doesn’t know who the better quarterback is for his team right now. “I don’t want to just go by what I saw with the naked eye,’’ he said.

Naked eyes are best for discovering the naked truth: Cassel is much closer to being a functional NFL starter right now than Ponder. The players know it. Despite his coyness, Frazier has got to know it, too.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... page=2&c=y