yesmanfan wrote:
oh how convenient...fine lets put a ton of weight on his 2 sack fumbles and ignore one of the most important aspects of judging a qb. LMAO
go look at my first post in this thread and you will see i addressed it and my point is you ignore it because it doesn't fit your argument.
Whatever you say. There was no discussion about it. I wasn't trying to ignore anything. If you really want to have a normal discussion about it, we can. That may require you to put some points together and not bring up crap I never said about super bowl qb's. Most important stat is winning. Our record is 1-1 with a home OT win over the Jags. Hooray. You didn't even start this thread, so my post way back on page 1 was far before you even showed up.
LMFAO, LOL, + some other dumb crap to make me feel cool. Did I do that last part right? If you want to discuss something, let's do it. J Kapp 11 and Mothman seem to do it the right away even if I don't agree with them. You just seem to want to throw attacks out on me personally. I'd tell you what I think of your 10 garbage posts so far, but I like to try and follow the rules.
dead_poet wrote:
You know as well as I do the majority of Ponder's completions have been less than 10 yards. There's no measuring stick yet for shots 20 yards or more downfield. Short, high-percentage passes completed do not automatically transfer to downfield success. I want them to take more shots too, but I understand the hesitation to do so.
what does 3 passes of more than 3.5 yds and less than 10yds equal?
or what does 2 passes of more than 5 yds and less than 10yds equal?
Crax wrote:
Whatever you say. There was no discussion about it. I wasn't trying to ignore anything. If you really want to have a normal discussion about it, we can. That may require you to put some points together and not bring up crap I never said about super bowl qb's. Most important stat is winning. Our record is 1-1 with a home OT win over the Jags. Hooray. You didn't even start this thread, so my post way back on page 1 was far before you even showed up.
LMFAO, LOL, + some other dumb crap to make me feel cool. Did I do that last part right? If you want to discuss something, let's do it. J Kapp 11 and Mothman seem to do it the right away even if I don't agree with them. You just seem to want to throw attacks out on me personally. I'd tell you what I think of your 10 garbage posts so far, but I like to try and follow the rules.
i did discuss it in my first post in this thread, you chose to ignore it
and then i mentioned it again, and you still didnt discuss it. now for a 3rd time you still havent mentioned anything about it. you are the one who wont join the conversation, not me.
yesmanfan wrote:
i did discuss it in my first post in this thread, you chose to ignore it
and then i mentioned it again, and you still didnt discuss it. now for a 3rd time you still havent mentioned anything about it. you are the one who wont join the conversation, not me.
What is your point? Eli is a good QB and he plays great in the 4th? I agree.
Ponder has done good in the 4th qtr for the most part? I agree
I never once said Ponder was a terrible QB in the 4th qtr or that he hasn't improved since last year. I pointed out he lost 2 fumbles already which is as many as he lost in 11 games last year. I also said I wasn't terribly impressed with his completion % due to him hardly throwing the ball downfield. The thread has moved on from my 1 sentence 2nd post of the thread.
Go ahead and layout your argument about how awesome Ponder is based on his 4th quarter performance this year against the Jags and Colts(both considered bottom 5 in the league) and that nothing else matters but what he does in the 4th. I'll wait.
Crax wrote:
What is your point? Eli is a good QB and he plays great in the 4th? I agree.
Ponder has done good in the 4th qtr for the most part? I agree
I never once said Ponder was a terrible QB in the 4th qtr or that he hasn't improved since last year. I pointed out he lost 2 fumbles already which is as many as he lost in 11 games last year. I also said I wasn't terribly impressed with his completion % due to him hardly throwing the ball downfield. The thread has moved on from my 1 sentence 2nd post of the thread.
Go ahead and layout your argument about how awesome Ponder is based on his 4th quarter performance this year against the Jags and Colts(both considered bottom 5 in the league) and that nothing else matters but what he does in the 4th. I'll wait.
i made my point, you attacked it. i reiterated my point because you missed the most important part. and 12 posts later you almost understand it. and i'll give you another clue this isn't it:
Crax wrote:nothing else matters but what he does in the 4th.
dead_poet wrote:
Brilliant! I concede. Your logic is flawless.
lol all im saying is if your argument as to why an increase in passing attempts won't work is because we don't gain enough yards when we pass that is just silly. its not like the first down marker is 20yds from the line of scrimmage. that was your argument, correct?
yesmanfan wrote:
lol all im saying is if your argument as to why an increase in passing attempts won't work is because we don't gain enough yards when we pass that is just silly. its not like the first down marker is 20yds from the line of scrimmage. that was your argument, correct?
No. What I'm saying is you can't automatically expect to succeed throwing 20+ yards downfield using completed passes that travel 3-5 yards downfield as evidence for that conclusion. An offensive line that has difficulty protecting for the necessary time, a quarterback that has trouble moving around the pocket to find more time and receivers that cannot separate consistently are reasons why I believe taking more intermediate to long shots are more a recipe for disaster than the current game plan. I'd still like to see them try, though. Because it is possible they could succeed. However they have factors weighing against them.
I'm saying what they're doing is working. It's producing points. It's accumulating yardage. It's eating the clock. Is it flawless? No. But I see more potential in the current game plan than I do one that necessitates pieces I don't feel we currently have (or have yet developed sufficiently).
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
dead_poet wrote:
No. What I'm saying is you can't automatically expect to succeed throwing 20+ yards downfield using completed passes that travel 3-5 yards downfield as evidence for that conclusion. An offensive line that has difficulty protecting for the necessary time, a quarterback that has trouble moving around the pocket to find more time and receivers that cannot separate consistently are reasons why I believe taking more intermediate to long shots are more a recipe for disaster than the current game plan. I'd still like to see them try, though. Because it is possible they could succeed. However they have factors weighing against them.
I'm saying what they're doing is working. It's producing points. It's accumulating yardage. It's eating the clock. Is it flawless? No. But I see more potential in the current game plan than I do one that necessitates pieces I don't feel we currently have (or have yet developed sufficiently).
im not saying throw the ball downfield more often, im saying run your offense like it was run in the last 2 mins of the first half of the first game, like it was run for most of the 2nd half of the first game and overtime of that game. and how it was run in the 4th quarter of the colts game. why was it run that way, because the coaches HAD to abandon their ultra conservative approach. the situations forced them to.
dead_poet wrote:
I'm saying what they're doing is working. It's producing points..
really? wow.
the majority of points were actually scored when they started to pass first and mix in the run for less than 30% of the play calls.
refer to the last 2 mins of the first game. the 2nd half of the first game. overtime of the first game. and the fourth quarter of the second game.
and the only reason they changed their philosophy for these drives was because the game situation forced them to. my point is take that philosophy for the entire game like the giants and packers. yes we don't have as many offensive weapons than they do, but we have a much better offensive line and plenty of guys to throw the ball to.
yesmanfan wrote:im not saying throw the ball downfield more often, im saying run your offense like it was run in the last 2 mins of the first half of the first game, like it was run for most of the 2nd half of the first game and overtime of that game. and how it was run in the 4th quarter of the colts game. why was it run that way, because the coaches HAD to abandon their ultra conservative approach. the situations forced them to.
It is also predicated by what the defense is allowing. I don't know if it's a coincidence that the passing game opened up when the opposition is in their two-minute defense at the end of the second and fourth quarters. But you could be right. Maybe the coaching staff isn't confident enough yet to turn Ponder loose. Maybe Ponder is incapable of doing more than what he's doing without turning the ball over (through his own fault). There are a lot of unknowns.
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
yesmanfan wrote:
i made my point, you attacked it. i reiterated my point because you missed the most important part. and 12 posts later you almost understand it. and i'll give you another clue this isn't it:
Really?
Your first post:
ponder has been eli manning like in the 4th quarter and overtime so far this year, very small sample size but what other qbs have been that good in the 4th quarter to start 2012
Again, he was playing the Jags and Colts. He threw a terrible forced ball to burton and got extremely lucky on a 4th down TD that was tipped twice. I'm still failing to see what fantastic awesomeness you've posted that I've missed. Please enlighten me.
Your first post:
Again, he was playing the Jags and Colts. He threw a terrible forced ball to burton and got extremely lucky on a 4th down TD that was tipped twice. I'm still failing to see what fantastic awesomeness you've posted that I've missed. Please enlighten me.
lol. i will go find my first post and copy and past THE ENTIRE POST, so you can quit twisting everything. last time im responding to you on this subject, its obviously over your head.
Last edited by yesmanfan on Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
yesmanfan wrote:
i find it funny how some people are really good at finding the negative in an extremely positive situation.
ponder has been eli manning like in the 4th quarter and overtime so far this year, very small sample size but what other qbs have been that good in the 4th quarter to start 2012. he has taken care of the ball, and fumbles will happen in the nfl when you get sacked, i dont care how strong your hands are. he has shown excellent decision making.
its the play calling on offense and defense and the lack of talent on defense that has done this team in. the ultraconservative scheme by the coaching staff is so crazy, stop trying to establish the run to open up the pass. it doesnt work, especially in the first half when the defense is 100% fresh.
ponder has been awesome. coaches terrible, defense quite bad.
yesmanfan wrote:
lol. i will go find my first post and copy and past THE ENTIRE POST, so you can quit twisting everything. last time im responding to you on this subject, its obviously over your head.
Obviously, I should have known exactly which parts of your poorly constructed paragraph you were talking about. Is your shift key broken? I might have an extra keyboard if you need it. Just trying to help a fellow poster out.
