Christian Ponder Improving

[1noahz23]

Christian has definately improved from last season. Already this year his stats are: 47/62, 515 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT. If he can do well next week against the powerhouse defense of the 49ers, his potential will skyrocket.

[Crax]

He has a 1:1 TD to TO ratio right now. Not sure I'm getting real excited about that. I find it funny that people keep leaving off his fumbles when posting his stats, like they aren't as bad as INT's some how.

[admvp]

I'll buy Ponder when he plays an entire game like he played the last drive today. That was awesome, and really clutch. I do think the offensive gameplan is handcuffing him somewhat, but that's hardly a good excuse. It's not like they never called pass plays! If the pocket wasn't PERFECT, he panicked every time, and scrambled or rolled out. He doesn't have any pocket presence, something Luck already has. And those times when he rolled out, all he thought was 'run'. Didn't have his eyes downfield, didn't even think to throw. The moment he leaves that pocket, he's a runner, not a passer. That isn't acceptable in the NFL.

[Just Me]

He has a 1:1 TD to TO ratio right now. Not sure I'm getting real excited about that. I find it funny that people keep leaving off his fumbles when posting his stats, like they aren't as bad as INT's some how.

How many other quarterbacks do we track fumbles on and factor that into his passing stats? Passer Rating (rightly or wrongly) does not factor in that stat, so I don't find it "funny" at all. Lost fumbles are as bad as an INT, I agree. Do you think the offensive line gets part of the credit for allowing a defensive lineman to run practically unabated to the QB? I think putting the TD to TO ratio is a valid arguement, I would just like to see consistency on the evaluation of all QBs that way.

Having said that, Ponder made an absolutely terrible throw yesterday where it looked like the DB was the intended receiver and the only reason it wasn't an INT was the Colts DB dropped it (I think the Colts DB may have been getting advice from our secondary before the game). So I don't necessarily buy into the opinion that Ponder is "awesome" but we still have to give the kid time to grow. If he's going to "pass or fail" the QB test, we'll know by the end of this season.

[Crax]

How many other quarterbacks do we track fumbles on and factor that into his passing stats? Passer Rating (rightly or wrongly) does not factor in that stat, so I don't find it "funny" at all. Lost fumbles are as bad as an INT, I agree. Do you think the offensive line gets part of the credit for allowing a defensive lineman to run practically unabated to the QB? I think putting the TD to TO ratio is a valid arguement, I would just like to see consistency on the evaluation of all QBs that way.

I might place some of the blame on the OL if ponder got completely blown up with an unblocked guy, but that isn't what happened with those fumbles. Especially the one yesterday. I know Vick has taken criticism for fumbles. If Ponder keeps fumbling, it's highly damaging and just as bad as an INT.

If we are including fumbles into his passing stats, we should probably any TDs where he touched the ball, too, right?
So he's at 4/2 TD to TO ratio. 2 throwing TDs. 2 handoff TDs.

No, because that would be stupid. NOBODY has ever gotten credit for handing the ball off. It IS ponder's fault when he carelessly fumbles away the ball. I guess maybe a fumble isn't a passing stat, but giving the other team the ball is costly.

It's not like he's fumbling on plays where he CHOOSES to run instead of staying in the pocket to throw. On both fumbles, he was forced to try to scramble because the line broke down early in the play.

Neither of those fumbles were superb plays by the defense. Ponder just plain lost the ball under a little bit of pressure.

[Mothman]

Neither of those fumbles were superb plays by the defense. Ponder just plain lost the ball under a little bit of pressure.

yesterday's fumble occurred when a Colts D-lineman (Freeman) stripped the ball out of Ponder's hands and there was more than a little pressure on that play. It was a very nice defensive play.

[Crax]

I'll have to rewatch it. I couldn't tell 100% on the replay. Either way, it wasn't a good job protecting the ball. Does anyone have a link to it?

[Mothman]

I'll have to rewatch it. I couldn't tell 100% on the replay. Either way, it wasn't a good job protecting the ball. Does anyone have a link to it?

I tried watching it on NFL.com but the replay was mis-labeled and showed a different set of highlights.

I just re-watched it on Game Rewind.

You're right, his arm was hit, not the ball, but that's still a strip. You're also right that he didn't protect the ball well enough. It looked like he was trying to pull it down and in toward his body when the strip happened. I'll watch it again later and try to confirm that.

Anyway, I still think it qualifies as a mistake on Ponder's part. I just wanted to clarify that he didn't simply drop the ball and that there was quite a bit of pressure on him (there were multiple defenders converging on him, not just one) when the turnover occurred.

It was a bad play all around for the Vikes.

[PurpleKoolaid]

yesterday's fumble occurred when a Colts D-lineman (Freeman) stripped the ball out of Ponder's hands and there was more than a little pressure on that play. It was a very nice defensive play.

LOL. A nice defensive play, but not bad play on Ponders fault. So many times the Vikes were within a fraction of an inch of nailing Luck, but somehow he always managed to avoid the pressure. Ponder cant. Even Webb does a better job then Ponder. but keep telling yourself non of this is Ponders fault, its all just lack of execution.

[Crax]

I tried watching it on NFL.com but the replay was mis-labeled and showed a different set of highlights.
I just re-watched it on Game Rewind.

I found some highlights but that wasn't shown. I have pretty limited video choices here at work that aren't blocked and my remote link is currently down.

You're right, his arm was hit, not the ball, but that's still a strip. You're also right that he didn't protect the ball well enough. It looked like he was trying to pull it down and in toward his body when the strip happened. I'll watch it again later and try to confirm that.

Anyway, I still think it qualifies as a mistake on Ponder's part. I just wanted to clarify that he didn't simply drop the ball and that there was quite a bit of pressure on him (there were multiple defenders converging on him, not just one) when the turnover occurred.

It was pretty bad protection, but didn't seem out of the ordinary from regular sacks that QB's take every game. It wasn't like a Mathis/Freeney strip sack combo we've all seen. Based on my recollection, it just seemed like his arm got slapped and he dropped the ball.

It was a bad play all around for the Vikes.

Seemed eerily familiar with the first game fumble just with how unforced it seemed. No INT's is great, but dropping the ball just seems like careless mental mistakes.

[Mothman]

It was pretty bad protection, but didn't seem out of the ordinary from regular sacks that QB's take every game. It wasn't like a Mathis/Freeney strip sack combo we've all seen. Based on my recollection, it just seemed like his arm got slapped and he dropped the ball.

That's basically what happened so you remember it correctly.

Seemed eerily familiar with the first game fumble just with how unforced it seemed. No INT's is great, but dropping the ball just seems like careless mental mistakes.

That's where we differ. It was definitely a forced fumble. Ponder didn't just drop it because he made a mental error. He dropped it because he was unable to get both hands on it and tuck it away before a stronger defender hit the arm holding the ball and knocked it loose. Some responsibility for that has to go to the QB but overall, it's a good defensive play. I think we should give the Colts credit for that one.




f your arm is hit, it's pretty easy to lose the ball. That's why, when under pressure, the QB has to get both hands on it and tuck it away. Ponder didn't have time to do that and the strip came from the back/side. It wasn't a careless mental error, it was a strong defensive player forcing a fumble and a Qb failing to get the balls afely tucked away in time.

[Crax]

That's where we differ. It was definitely a forced fumble.

Yes, we do differ here. If a running back has the ball slip out while getting tackled, I think we generally all consider that poor play. It's one thing to get stood up and get it ripped away, it's different IMO to just drop the ball when your arm gets slapped.

If your arm is hit, it's pretty easy to lose the ball. That's why, when under pressure, the QB has to get both hands on it and tuck it away. Ponder didn't have time to do that and the strip came from the back/side. It wasn't a careless mental error, it was a strong defensive player forcing a fumble and a Qb failing to get the balls afely tucked away in time.

I don't see it that way. When a guy puts a helmet on the ball or comes up behind and tomahawks it out, that's a great defensive play. Slapping a guy on the arm and having him drop it just seems like careless ball protection on the player with the ball. I think having a good grip on the ball even if single handed should prevent it coming loose from a slap.

[Mothman]

Yes, we do differ here. If a running back has the ball slip out while getting tackled, I think we generally all consider that poor play. It's one thing to get stood up and get it ripped away, it's different IMO to just drop the ball when your arm gets slapped.

Both are forced fumbles. The defender doesn't have to punch or rip the ball for it to be a strip. There's a difference between a ball slipping out and a fumble occurring due to the due to the force of an impact on the arm. When the latter happens, it's not simply a matter of carelessness. The fumble is literally caused by the defender. The offensive player isn't absolved of his responsibility to secure the ball but it's not simply a dropped ball either.

I don't see it that way. When a guy puts a helmet on the ball or comes up behind and tomahawks it out, that's a great defensive play. Slapping a guy on the arm and having him drop it just seems like careless ball protection on the player with the ball. I think having a good grip on the ball even if single handed should prevent it coming loose from a slap.

Well, let's line you up, put a ball in your hand, have a 280+ pound defender hit your arm from the side (almost the back) and see if you still feel the same way.

Oh, well, we'll just have to disagree about this one.

[Crax]

Well, let's line you up, put a ball in your hand, have a 280+ pound defender hit your arm from the side (almost the back) and see if you still feel the same way.

There's plenty of reasons I'm not in the NFL. I probably couldn't field punts cleanly either. Doesn't mean we shouldn't expect it from Vikings players.

If you ever come to Utah, we can buy a smaller football(My hands aren't as big as Ponders) and you can chase me around while I have a single hand grip on the ball. I'm not sure what that will prove, but might end up looking pretty funny for others to see.

[Mothman]

There's plenty of reasons I'm not in the NFL. I probably couldn't field punts cleanly either. Doesn't mean we shouldn't expect it from Vikings players.

If you ever come to Utah, we can buy a smaller football(My hands aren't as big as Ponders) and you can chase me around while I have a single hand grip on the ball. I'm not sure what that will prove, but might end up looking pretty funny for others to see.

LOL! It's a deal.