Vikings Message Board.Com

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:37 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:12 pm

If it were that simple no team would ever trade up in those late rounds, and every GM would be doing the same thing Rick is doing. Instead we see successful GMs trade back in the early rounds for 3rd rounders and even 2nd rounders, accumulating those, and we see the unsuccessful GM of the Vikings trading back in the 3rd to pickup up those late round picks that never work out.

0 hits in the 48 picks he has accumulated in the 6th and 7th round and 10 for 14 in the 3rd round since 2011, and you wonder why I am okay with him trading for more 3rd round picks but not for trading back for those 6th and 7th rounders?

First of all, define a "hit".

Second, there havent been any Tom Brady's coming out of those rounds for us. However, they've found a lot of valuable contributors which is what you're really looking for in those rounds. Anything better than that is a cherry on top. But I dont really know how many "hits" you really expect out of those rounds. It's the 6th and 7th round, the chances arent high. However, if you're in the 3rd round, can trade down lets say 10 picks and get an equivalent player PLUS gain a freebie at the end, why would you not?

That's like buying an item and then getting a free t-shirt or something with it. Like you dont really need the t-shirt, you have plenty but you'll take it right? Chances are slim that it becomes one of your favorite t-shirts, but there is most definitely a chance.

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:07 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 9:25 pm

You tell me what those hits were in 6th and 7th round if it is BS.

I didn't say he traded out of the third I said he traded back in the 3rd.

V V likes to call BS on people when there is none. Ignore.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:37 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 3:12 pm

If it were that simple no team would ever trade up in those late rounds, and every GM would be doing the same thing Rick is doing. Instead we see successful GMs trade back in the early rounds for 3rd rounders and even 2nd rounders, accumulating those, and we see the unsuccessful GM of the Vikings trading back in the 3rd to pickup up those late round picks that never work out.

0 hits in the 48 picks he has accumulated in the 6th and 7th round and 10 for 14 in the 3rd round since 2011, and you wonder why I am okay with him trading for more 3rd round picks but not for trading back for those 6th and 7th rounders?

First of all, define a "hit".

Second, there havent been any Tom Brady's coming out of those rounds for us. However, they've found a lot of valuable contributors which is what you're really looking for in those rounds. Anything better than that is a cherry on top. But I dont really know how many "hits" you really expect out of those rounds. It's the 6th and 7th round, the chances arent high. However, if you're in the 3rd round, can trade down lets say 10 picks and get an equivalent player PLUS gain a freebie at the end, why would you not?

That's like buying an item and then getting a free t-shirt or something with it. Like you dont really need the t-shirt, you have plenty but you'll take it right? Chances are slim that it becomes one of your favorite t-shirts, but there is most definitely a chance.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:58 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:37 am

First of all, define a "hit".

Second, there havent been any Tom Brady's coming out of those rounds for us. However, they've found a lot of valuable contributors which is what you're really looking for in those rounds. Anything better than that is a cherry on top. But I dont really know how many "hits" you really expect out of those rounds. It's the 6th and 7th round, the chances arent high. However, if you're in the 3rd round, can trade down lets say 10 picks and get an equivalent player PLUS gain a freebie at the end, why would you not?

That's like buying an item and then getting a free t-shirt or something with it. Like you dont really need the t-shirt, you have plenty but you'll take it right? Chances are slim that it becomes one of your favorite t-shirts, but there is most definitely a chance.

Yep define a hit. Where did he come up with the 48 with 0 hits number. I think he's pulling those out of thin air and that's why I called BS. If 0 out of our last 48 6th and 7th round picks have made a contribution than I apologize, but I know that's false.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:25 am

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 7:58 am
Yep define a hit. Where did he come up with the 48 with 0 hits number. I think he's pulling those out of thin air and that's why I called BS. If 0 out of our last 48 6th and 7th round picks have made a contribution than I apologize, but I know that's false.

Jaylen Twyman
Blake Brandel
Josh Metellus
Kenny Willekes
Nate Stanley
Brian Cole II
Kyle Hinton
Armon Watts
Marcus Epps
Oli Udoh
Kris Boyd
Dillon Mitchell
Olabisi Johnson
Austin Cutting
Colby Gossett
Ade Aruna
Devante Downs
Bucky Hodges
Stacy Coley
Ifeadi Odenigbo
Elijah Lee
Jack Tocho
Moritz Boehringer
David Morgan
Stephen Weatherly
Jayron Kearse
Tyrus Thompson
B.J. Dubose
Austin Shepherd
Edmond Robinson
Antone Exum
Kendall James
Shamar Stephen
Brandon Watts
Jabari Price
Jeff Baca
Michael Mauti
Travis Bond
Everett Dawkins
Blair Walsh
Audie Cole
Trevor Guyton
Demarcus Love
Mistral Raymond
Brandon Fusco
Ross Homan
D'Aundre Reed
Stephen Burton


You tell me the player or combination of players from that list that we win even 1 fewer game over the past 10 years if they aren't on the team. Or did you mean contributing as in losing playoff games like Blair Walsh lost us one in 2015? Who are the guys that couldn't have easily been replaced with a UDFA or guy from the waiver wire?

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:45 am
Your one specific example Blair Walsh was an all pro. You're not making your case very well.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:45 am Others that could easily have made the difference between a win and a loss are
Shamar Stephen
Brandon Fusco
Oli Udoh we did win that game he started against the bears right?
Stephen Weatherly
Audie Cole
Armon Watts
Bisi Johnson
Kris Boyd
Michael Mauti
David Morgan

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:45 am Guys who could definitely make a contribution to a win still
Kyle Hinton
Blake Brandel
Kenny Willekes

Is Colby Gossett the one we cut who caught on with another team and started?

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:45 am They were all better than the UDFA's or Waiver Wire guys or we would have replaced them with UDFA and waiver wire guys. Why are you including a rookie who hasn't even had a chance to play a game yet in your list.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:10 am

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:45 am
Your one specific example Blair Walsh was an all pro. You're not making your case very well.

I'm not? How many Vikings fans are happy we drafted Blair Walsh? For that matter, do you think Zimmer is happy we drafted him? I bet he wishes Blair Walsh never set foot on the field in a Viking's uniform and would be happy tell you that if you asked him. A good pick that everyone wishes we never drafted? Makes sense.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:45 am Others that could easily have made the difference between a win and a loss are
Shamar Stephen
Brandon Fusco
Oli Udoh we did win that game he started against the bears right?
Stephen Weatherly
Audie Cole
Armon Watts
Bisi Johnson
Kris Boyd
Michael Mauti
David Morgan

Yea, what would he done without those guys huge contributions.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:45 am Guys who could definitely make a contribution to a win still
Kyle Hinton
Blake Brandel
Kenny Willekes

Is Colby Gossett the one we cut who caught on with another team and started?

I am sure they all are going to be contributing big time, just like Stephen and Bisi Johnson did.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:45 am They were all better than the UDFA's or Waiver Wire guys or we would have replaced them with UDFA and waiver wire guys. Why are you including a rookie who hasn't even had a chance to play a game yet in your list.

Correction to your statement, they were all as good as the UDFA or waiver wire guys who could have replaced them. Not necessarily better, but no difference in any meaningful way if we went with one over the other. Unless of course those UDFAs were better, which a number have been. UDFAs and waiver wire guys HAVE contributed significantly to this team.

I included all of the players drafted in the 6th and 7th round. They haven't had a chance to contribute yet true, but it is safe to say they won't, because none have yet and I don't see that changing in a year where the 6th and 7th round was full of guys who would never have been drafted in a normal year.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:28 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:10 am
I'm not? How many Vikings fans are happy we drafted Blair Walsh? For that matter, do you think Zimmer is happy we drafted him? I bet he wishes Blair Walsh never set foot on the field in a Viking's uniform and would be happy tell you that if you asked him. A good pick that everyone wishes we never drafted? Makes sense.


Yea, what would he done without those guys huge contributions.



I am sure they all are going to be contributing big time, just like Stephen and Bisi Johnson did.



Correction to your statement, they were all as good as the UDFA or waiver wire guys who could have replaced them. Not necessarily better, but no difference in any meaningful way if we went with one over the other. Unless of course those UDFAs were better, which a number have been. UDFAs and waiver wire guys HAVE contributed significantly to this team.

I included all of the players drafted in the 6th and 7th round. They haven't had a chance to contribute yet true, but it is safe to say they won't, because none have yet and I don't see that changing in a year where the 6th and 7th round was full of guys who would never have been drafted in a normal year.

Yeah Rookie All Pro Blair Walsh who set the NFL record for making the most kicks over 50 yards and was he perfect or did he miss one. Sure later he went psycho.
I never said HUGE contribution regarding any of the players I mentioned, but in his Rookie Year Walsh did make HUGE contributions. Nice Straw Man argument. All the players I pointed out contributed. I proved you wrong and now I'm going back to not engaging you in conversation.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:27 pm Maybe the NFL should just get rid of 6th and 7th round picks. Because supposedly they are worthless, a waste of time and nothing will come of them. Why even bother picking in those rounds right?

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:58 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:27 pm Maybe the NFL should just get rid of 6th and 7th round picks. Because supposedly they are worthless, a waste of time and nothing will come of them. Why even bother picking in those rounds right?

It isn't exactly unprecedented for the NFL do away with rounds in the draft, but that is besides the point.

The point is that they have been pretty much worthless to Rick. Other teams have had more success despite much fewer picks in those rounds in the past 10 seasons. Not close to the success that Hunter or Diggs were, but success.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:45 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 12:58 pm
It isn't exactly unprecedented for the NFL do away with rounds in the draft, but that is besides the point.

The point is that they have been pretty much worthless to Rick. Other teams have had more success despite much fewer picks in those rounds in the past 10 seasons. Not close to the success that Hunter or Diggs were, but success.

I'd love to see the proof behind that. I mean you've been talking big time contributors here. We laid out who Rick has drafted that has indeed contributed to this team in multiple ways but apparently those guys dont count in your eyes. So what teams have pulled stars out of the late rounds?

and FYI, finding a team that has pulled 1 star player out of the late rounds compared to Rick's "0 for 48" isnt a valid argument. If anything it further proves my point that if you fish for long enough, something is eventually going to bite. I want to see teams that have had legit success in the late rounds. Teams that have pulled multiple stars out of those rounds. I'll wait.....

fiestavike wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:37 am I'd say that's a pretty impressive list of contributors, some of whom caught on later with other teams. Getting productive play from 3, 4, 5 guys who are late round picks, on late round rookie contracts, can be extremely valuable to a team. If you add the combo of 6th, 7th round picks and undrafted guys, the Vikings have done a good job putting giving real opportunity to guys who were less coveted. They need to do better on their 1st round picks, as too many of them have failed to contribute at a level on par with many of their 6th and 7th rounders.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:27 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:45 am

I'd love to see the proof behind that. I mean you've been talking big time contributors here. We laid out who Rick has drafted that has indeed contributed to this team in multiple ways but apparently those guys dont count in your eyes. So what teams have pulled stars out of the late rounds?

and FYI, finding a team that has pulled 1 star player out of the late rounds compared to Rick's "0 for 48" isnt a valid argument. If anything it further proves my point that if you fish for long enough, something is eventually going to bite. I want to see teams that have had legit success in the late rounds. Teams that have pulled multiple stars out of those rounds. I'll wait.....

1 for 30 is infinitely more successful than 0 - 48, but you are right, even the teams that have drafted better are getting 1 guy at best in those later rounds.

Philly and Baltimore are probably the best. Philly drafted arguably the best 6th or 7th rounder since 2011 in Jason Kelce along with Jalen Mills using just 29 picks in those rounds. Baltimore drafted Tyrod Taylor and Waller, both of whom didn't end up producing anything for them, but did go on to provide value for other teams. They also drafted their starting center, Bozeman, in 2018. Baltimore did that with just 21 picks.

That is about it for teams with multiple success stories in those rounds, and just more evidence that trading back for those picks is pointless.