Ponder's Done

[BGM]

Cassel played a very good game today. Of that I think there can be no argument. I also believe it would be a huge mistake to go back to Ponder. Cassel is a decent QB, and moved the offense and made this game fun to watch. For the first time all season, I felt a rhythm to the game offensively. That speaks volumes of how poorly Ponder runs this offense when he is on the field.

That being said, there are problems with Cassel. He has a horribly inaccurate deep ball. Sometimes he rockets the ball when a touch pass would work. And they were playing a Pittsburgh team that is in complete meltdown mode - their defense has yet to recover a turnover. A Pittsburgh defense with no TOs? Let that sink in for a moment.

I look forward to seeing what Cassel does after the bye week. I think he will do well this season, but he is not a long term answer - too many glaring holes in his game.

[The Breeze]

I understand the love for Cassel cause he did play like a vet QB.....but is there any chance for keeping things in perspective as far as the fact that this game was exactly the same as the first two in the sense that the Vikings had the lead with 3 mins left?Keep what in perspective? The Vikings won today. They're 1-3 and in last place. They possibly could've been 3-1 with better QB play or better defensive play at the end of games vs CHI and CLE.

The huge difference being that Rothelburgers got stripped sacked in the red zone. Am I high? Wasn't that the big difference in the game?
Say what you want aboutthe difference between Cassel and Ponder, it's there The fact is this team had late leads against much better teams than the Steelers. I think the difference is hope. The offense finally felt like legitimate NFL offense that is not one dimensional. Teams will have to protect the entire field now which should do wonders for Adrian.

Credit to the D for hanging tough when it really counted today. They were the last unit on the field and they executed....we'd be 3-1 and in first place if they'd done it sooner. The goal is to have the offense be the last unit on the field. With Cassel, I can see Musgrave getting a little more creative with playcalling in games to come. Or maybe even a presnap read on 3rd and 4.

The perspective is that the TEAM won...not just Cassel. That the bigger difference on the field today was that the defense did not fold forthe 3rd week in a row, as close as they came to doing so. Or that it is at all worth suggesting that they wouldn't have won with Ponder.
If someone wants to go there then they have to answer the question: who would you blame if they lost in OT...like the Texans today? Because neither thing happened in London.

My hope hasn't been hanging on the offense. It's been on the defense making tackles and doing some dictating out there. They've had leads late.

And the offense was the last unit on the field today, thanks Matt Cassel....and I still don't think Musgrave is all that good. I hope he's gone next season. Seriously.

[The Breeze]

I think we all agree that Cassel is the better QB right now, but does anyone think he is "the one?" I don't. The big difference is his arm and he sees the field better. These are two pretty big things though. If Ponder saw the field better and made better decisions, he would be the better QB. He's definitely not there though, and who knows if he ever will. Cassel still wasn't placing the ball great, but he was putting the ball in a place where his receivers can catch the ball and make a play with it. Ponder puts it where "if" they catch it, that's all they do. You could see how our playcalling was opened up more though...

Our defense continues to be a liability. At least Williams did a better job of bringing the LBs and bringing pressure. Might as well anyways, because they are a liability in coverage. But outside of Smith and Allen, I am not impressed with anyone on our D. We play 56 minutes of solid football, but the final two minutes of each half is the same story - walk all over us. THIS HAS TO CHANGE.

Anyways, I think I'm saying what everyone else is saying, but mostly Breeze. Cassel is better than Ponder, but I don't think he is our future.

I keep reading your post and agree with pretty much all of it......but I can't tell if you meant I agree with you or not.

[J. Kapp 11]

The huge difference being that Rothelburgers got stripped sacked in the red zone. Am I high? Wasn't that the big difference in the game?

No, it wasn't.

The big difference in the game was that the Vikings had already put up 34 and had a 17-point lead.

Put another way ... if you're going to say that Matt Cassel didn't win the game by himself, then it's completely appropriate to say that a single defensive play didn't win the game by itself.

The title of the thread is appropriate. Christian Ponder is done. Matt Cassel gave us actual NFL-level quarterback play and should be our starter. If he's not, then this organization has its collective head up its a$$.

[LA Viking]

I keep reading your post and agree with pretty much all of it......but I can't tell if you meant I agree with you or not.

Heh, yeah, I agree with your posts.

[PurpleHalo]

Fraizor postgame interview saids Ponder is his guy...

If he means this, he is staking his head coaching career on one of the most inept QBs I have ever seen. I doubt this is the same sentiment he has going into the Carolina game. He will lose the team if so.

[The Breeze]

No, it wasn't.

The big difference in the game was that the Vikings had already put up 34 and had a 17-point lead.

Put another way ... if you're going to say that Matt Cassel didn't win the game by himself, then it's completely appropriate to say that a single defensive play didn't win the game by itself.

The title of the thread is appropriate. Christian Ponder is done. Matt Cassel gave us actual NFL-level quarterback play and should be our starter. If he's not, then this organization has its collective head up its a$$.

Joe, I didn't say the defensive play 'won' the game. What I meant was that it was the biggest difference between the last 3 games. All of which we had late leads and needed to get a stop. The difference was a stop was made.

I'm not too sure we ever held a 17 point lead either. I know we got up by that many but I think Pittsburgh answered with a long TD drive which we followed with a short conservative drive and a weak azz punt.

[Eli]

If he means this, he is staking his head coaching career on one of the most inept QBs I have ever seen. I doubt this is the same sentiment he has going into the Carolina game. He will lose the team if so.

I have absolutely no doubt that Frazier means it and will stick with Ponder if he can play in two weeks. None.

[J. Kapp 11]

Joe, I didn't say the defensive play 'won' the game. What I meant was that it was the biggest difference between the last 3 games. All of which we had late leads and needed to get a stop. The difference was a stop was made.

I'm not too sure we ever held a 17 point lead either. I know we got up by that many but I think Pittsburgh answered with a long TD drive which we followed with a short conservative drive and a weak azz punt.

I agree ... we got conservative and had a terrible punt, along with the defense growing limp.

It underscores the importance of the 17-point lead. It started early in the game, when the Vikings put up the game's first 10 points. When Pittsburgh pulled to within a field goal early in the third, the Vikings answered with 14 straight points, mostly thanks to Cassel's passing. In every other game, we were the ones falling behind. Without that lead, we lose.

I maintain THAT was the difference between this game and the last three.

[The Breeze]

@Tex & Mondry

I'm not at all suggesting that Cassel played poorly or that there wasn't a noticable difference in their respective play. There was and he made plays.

I'm challenging the notion, and the QB nuthugging menatlity that seems pervasive, that Matt Cassel won this football game or that Ponder lost the previous 3....or that Ponder won 10 of the previous 16 before that. Cassel contributed in todays win just like Ponder contributed in the 10 wins last year. But like it or not, Ponder also contributed in the losses by CHI and CLE. Just like how the defense did not execute well at the end of both games, so did Ponder. He missed wide open receivers that would've sealed the win in each case. Can you say the same for Cassel today? That audible to Simpson was critical. Without that, the Steelers offense get at least another minute which could've made the difference between winning and losing.

Yay! It's cool we won a game...barely. And here is another 'P' thread eviscerating a guy who didn't even suit up.

How long did they hold that 17pt lead for? Was it even a series? I don't think so. Maybe. So, did they actually hold that lead?You're missing the fact that the Vikings actually had a 17 point lead in the 2nd half. Chances are, you'll win more games with a lead like this.

If the holder woulda done this or that.....if the special teams could have covered a guy on a fake fg....or managed to limit Devon Hester to just 200 yards in returns.

If Cassel had been week one starter we'd be 4-0? If his first 3rd down pass wasn't batted down it's picked off. If CP84 doesn't make a great play in the end zone ....another pick. If that fumble doesn't get away from the Steeler lineman ...we lose the fumble. But I'm just supposed to assume that Cassel would be that fortunate from week 1 and that the only reason this team has won or lost anything is because of Matt Cassel and Christian Ponder?
I don't think either of you are suggesting that. And Ponder didn't get his share of luck too? What about Suh's pick 6 that was called back? What about the up for grab passes he threw last week? I think we can find a lot more instances of possible INTs without trying very hard. The fact is Ponder commited 7 turnovers in 3 games and Cassel had 0 today. I don't think anyone is thinking he won't throw an INT, but it's a huge improvement so far. And you're blaming Cassel for being a little rusty? Really? I think Cassel has a pretty good excuse. What's Ponders?

It's great they won the game. But taking more shots at Ponder while swinging like juevenile tarzans from Cassel's beanbag is seriously hilairious( that's prolly spelled wrong) to me. Nah, after 2+ years of this, I think its deserved.

It's Matt frigging nothinglefttolose Cassel and a defense that can't stop a guy called Hoyer with the game on the line.You do know Hoyer had another solid game right?

I'm not or haven't blamed Cassel for anything. The guy played like the solid vet backup that he is. Just what I expected out of him. I never blamed Ponder either...

17 point leads don't mean much if you can't hold them ....see Texans, Houston. I think the only lead we actually held today was 10. I don't think you can credit a team for holding a lead if they give up a score on he ensuing drive. But it's not lost on me that they had their biggest lead, this season, by 1 whole point with 3 minutes to go. Nor is it lost on me that this Steeler team is reeling on defense and gave up 40 to chicago.

Yes, I watched the Browns destroy the bengals offense today and commented more than once on the game thread. I don't even think the bengals got into the red zone. Glad Dalton isn't or QB that guy sucks.
ohhh wait.... didn't he just torch he Packers defense last week?

That one TD to Cameron was all the Browns and Hoyer needed.

I think it would be cool to have a team that didn't need to score 30+ points to just barely win or lose.
When we have that I'll get excited.


I do hope this is the end of Ponder as QB.


edit to add: definitely playing the whole game with the lead was a breath of fresh air. A 2 score lead does skew things to our defense.

Plus i'm getting tired....so if i sound crotchety I apologize.

[The Breeze]

I agree ... we got conservative and had a terrible punt, along with the defense growing limp.

It underscores the importance of the 17-point lead. It started early in the game, when the Vikings put up the game's first 10 points. When Pittsburgh pulled to within a field goal early in the third, the Vikings answered with 14 straight points, mostly thanks to Cassel's passing. In every other game, we were the ones falling behind. Without that lead, we lose.

I maintain THAT was the difference between this game and the last three.

I get it. The fact that we got a lead and held it throughout. Sure. That was a big part of the MO last year too.
It makes the job much easier for our defense. And definitely something we've been unable to do until today...make an offense one dimentional.

Good point. I see now, that's part of what 808 is trying to splain as well.

[mondry]

I think Ponder has about 4 throws that I can vaguely remember off the top of my head that probably "should" have been picked so it doesn't really help his case to include woulda coulda shoulda scenarios.

Another thing to keep in mind, Ponder's been getting 100% of the snaps with the #1's for the past three months and even up till just a couple days ago. Think about that, with just a tiny bit of time Cassel basically had a better game today than any of Ponders.

I think the point here is that we should always be trying to solve our problems. We had a QB problem, and yes we have some problems on defense too. There's no point in staying the course and having two problems. If cassel helps give us decent NFL QB quality play then I'm all for it, if we find a solution on defense too then I'm all for that as well but I don't think the latter is as obvious.

[Orion]

Don't forget this is only Castle's first game.... how much better can he be once he gets more comfortable?

[Orion]

Frazier: our quarterback is christian ponder

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Fraz ... nder092913




Cya Frazier.

[King James]

Frazier: our quarterback is christian ponder

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/Fraz ... nder092913




Cya Frazier.

He just said Ponder is our QB. Matt Cassel is also our QB. MBT is our QB as well. He didn't hint at a QB change specifically but I remember him saying that discussion about any changes will be doing during the bye week. Frazier knows his job is on the line. If he starts Ponder, he's basically saying he wants to seek new employment next year.