What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

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Norv Zimmer
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Re: What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

Post by Norv Zimmer »

Purple bruise wrote:Norv Zimmer, "Don't get me wrong... I like teddy. I hope he is our qb of the future. But, to be excited he was named to the pro bowl after soany qbs turned it down ahead of him is silly. Cmon, he had like 11 tds the whole year....
News flash....Being a good QB means a whole lot more than how many td passes he threw. When the Vikes got into the red zone, more often than not, they seemed to (right or wrong) "stuck" with their running attack, which I believe was/is one of the best in the NFL. When a team has the league's leading rusher then the flip side is that the passing game ie. total yards and td passes will suffer.
Teddy, by all accounts, is a great leader, stoic and calm in the pocket, takes huge hits and bounces back without complaint, escapes many many sure sacks and is actually "loved" by Zim. Teddy is the future :thumbsup:[/quote]

You an I obviously have different ideas of what a "good" qb is. Yes it does have something to do with the number of td passes he has. While I said I hope that Teddy is the vikings future, in my mind he still has to prove it. Next year will be the deciding factor when it comes to Teddy.

With regard to the title of the post... does Teddy belong in the pro bowl ?

The answer is no.
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Re: What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

Post by fiestavike »

Norv Zimmer wrote:
With regard to the title of the post... does Teddy belong in the pro bowl ?

The answer is no.
He belongs in the Super Bowl. Many, many times.
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Re: What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

Post by slapnut19 »

who cares if he "belongs" or is worthy. he's there along with several of our core guys. just enjoy it for what it is. i'm sure our players are. the older players around the league see the pro bowl as a burden but i'm sure the young guys enjoy the recognition and the trip to hawaii.
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Re: What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

Post by Cliff »

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/ ... in-history

2016 NFL Pro Bowl: The most declined invitation in history
Again, the timing of the Pro Bowl impacts player attendance when it is held before the Super Bowl. There also isn't much of a financial incentive to alternates; players only receive contractual bonuses if they are among the originals voted in. Players on the winning team do receive $58,000; the loser's share is $29,000. But when nearly 8 percent of the 1,696-player league is invited to play in what should be an exclusive game, it's difficult to advertise it as a legitimate collection of all-stars.

If anything, this Pro Bowl will be a gathering of future stars. Perhaps that is an idea for Pro Bowls moving forward. There's nothing wrong with voting on a true year-end All-Star team, but perhaps the Pro Bowl could be played by promising younger players -- the Derek Carrs and Jameis Winstons of each season -- who would be eager to participate and to be marketed as the future of the league. Just a thought as the roster hemorrhage continues.
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Re: What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

Post by fiestavike »

Cliff wrote:http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/ ... in-history

2016 NFL Pro Bowl: The most declined invitation in history
That's an interesting idea. Much better than this silly Irvin vs Rice nonsense.

I think the Pro-Bowl should consist of players who do stupid celebrations during the year being tarred and feathered, or generally pilloried in some fashion. And if they refuse they are fined their entire salary from the previous year.

Oh how I yearn for a football product that isn't so repugnant and trashy. There is very little difference between the NFL and the Real Housewives of Atlanta. Both are basically trash TV. And now the Real Housewife of Charlotte is in the Superbowl, being celebrated, and not generally reviled as a first rate jerk. We are in the 'bread and circuses' phase now.
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Re: What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

Post by The Breeze »

I think exhibition football is just a bad idea. The preseason is a necessary evil. Just the injury factor alone is enough incentive to make players not want to participate in what is essentialy a meaningless game. Why should there be any effort, other than greed, to create some legit 'meaning' for an exhibition game?
I think a skills challenge is a good alternative. Back in the 70's, maybe early 80's, they had those team challenges with completely nonfootball events. Row boat races, tug o wars, track events....it was actually pretty cool IMO. Hell, if NFL players doing 'Dancing with the Stars' is popular, I'm sure some form cross training -type competition would garner viewers.
They could even do competitive cooking. Imagine Childress and Harvin in a timed bake off against Chip Kelly and Lashawn McCoy...that's must see TV.
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Re: What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

Post by akvikingsfan »

The Breeze wrote:I think exhibition football is just a bad idea. The preseason is a necessary evil. Just the injury factor alone is enough incentive to make players not want to participate in what is essentialy a meaningless game. Why should there be any effort, other than greed, to create some legit 'meaning' for an exhibition game?
I think a skills challenge is a good alternative. Back in the 70's, maybe early 80's, they had those team challenges with completely nonfootball events. Row boat races, tug o wars, track events....it was actually pretty cool IMO. Hell, if NFL players doing 'Dancing with the Stars' is popular, I'm sure some form cross training -type competition would garner viewers.
They could even do competitive cooking. Imagine Childress and Harvin in a timed bake off against Chip Kelly and Lashawn McCoy...that's must see TV.
Even in the 90s they had skills challenges. Longest throw, trick kick contests, Combine type events, etc. The NBA (dunk contest, three points, etc.) and MLB (home run derby) still have these types of events at their All Star games, why can't the NFL? Plus, these are more fun than the actual game.
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Re: What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

Post by Raptorman »

The Breeze wrote:I think exhibition football is just a bad idea. The preseason is a necessary evil. Just the injury factor alone is enough incentive to make players not want to participate in what is essentialy a meaningless game. Why should there be any effort, other than greed, to create some legit 'meaning' for an exhibition game?
I think a skills challenge is a good alternative. Back in the 70's, maybe early 80's, they had those team challenges with completely nonfootball events. Row boat races, tug o wars, track events....it was actually pretty cool IMO. Hell, if NFL players doing 'Dancing with the Stars' is popular, I'm sure some form cross training -type competition would garner viewers.
They could even do competitive cooking. Imagine Childress and Harvin in a timed bake off against Chip Kelly and Lashawn McCoy...that's must see TV.
You should have been around in the 70's when the pre-season games numbered 6. Yup, 6 pre-season games. The season before the season. The best part was that season ticket holders had to buy tickets in order to keep their season tickets. And the Owners kept all the money. Because it was Pre-season, the revenue was not shared with the players.
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Just Me
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Re: What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

Post by Just Me »

S197 wrote:The worst thing they did was move the Pro Bowl to before the Super Bowl. I think a lot more guys would play if they had a couple weeks to rest. Plus, you get the two SB teams.
Totally agree. I haven't watched a pro-bowl since they went to the "new" way of scheduling it during the "off-week" before the Super Bowl.
I've told people a million times not to exaggerate!
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Re: What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

Post by The Breeze »

@Raptor
I was around then but not able to follow the game much due to where i lived and no internet.
-
@Just me
The skills competition are ok IMO....the older ones were totally non-football related. I think it was called 'Superstars'?
It took place in summer....there was an obstacle course, rowing, track events, weight lifting, and team tug o war...all for extra cash. It was cool to see players out of uniform and more of their personalities in play. Probably some youtubes around.
You might know all that anyway...
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Re: What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

Post by losperros »

Just Me wrote: Totally agree. I haven't watched a pro-bowl since they went to the "new" way of scheduling it during the "off-week" before the Super Bowl.
Neither have I. I cannot understand why the switch was made. They had to know some good players weren't going to show up.
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Re: What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

Post by Purple bruise »

Norv Zimmer wrote: News flash....Being a good QB means a whole lot more than how many td passes he threw. When the Vikes got into the red zone, more often than not, they seemed to (right or wrong) "stuck" with their running attack, which I believe was/is one of the best in the NFL. When a team has the league's leading rusher then the flip side is that the passing game ie. total yards and td passes will suffer.
Teddy, by all accounts, is a great leader, stoic and calm in the pocket, takes huge hits and bounces back without complaint, escapes many many sure sacks and is actually "loved" by Zim. Teddy is the future :thumbsup:
You an I obviously have different ideas of what a "good" qb is. Yes it does have something to do with the number of td passes he has. While I said I hope that Teddy is the vikings future, in my mind he still has to prove it. Next year will be the deciding factor when it comes to Teddy.

With regard to the title of the post... does Teddy belong in the pro bowl ?

The answer is no.[/quote]

I am not agreeing at all with you saying he is not a good QB but to each their own. obtw he was 11-5 as a starting QB this year with the first of many NFC North Titles and beyond to look forward to. It was 14 td passes not 11 as you stated.
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Re: What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

Post by mosscarter »

aren't we splitting hairs with 11, or 14 td's? either number ranks among the worst of any starting qb in the entire nfl. if that doesn't show you where the pro bowl is as far as credibility i don't know what does.
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Re: What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

Post by mike2mike »

If you're going to look at stats... Be smart about it. The probowl is about the best and most talented players, not those who win the most fantasy football games but throw 5INTs for TDs and lose the game.

-If Teddy had as many passing attempts as Phil Rivers and maintained the same yards per attempt, he'd have ranked 3rd in NFL yardage ahead of Tom Brady. So his ability to produce yards with even a conservative mentality is there if he was asked to throw the ball often. Even if you just set everyone at an average number of attempts and adjust players, Teddy would see a boost while many of the "top QBs" in yards would see a drop.

-If he didn't have as many throw aways and grounding at the feet as a result of responding to his coaching and a conservative offense, he'd have even more. He might have more INTs and we might have not won the North... But who cares, right? :wallbang: . You could say that about everyone, but I mean if you adjusted for everyone, Teddy would see a more substantial boost than most because of the nature of the offense.

-You could use stats and math to approximate how offensive line play effects stats. In short, you could use a combination of league baseline stats under pressure and when not under pressure and adjust for how frequently a player was under pressure. In 2014 I think Teddy was under pressure a whopping 40% of all plays... Meaning when teams would rush 4 defenders, 40% of the time Teddy dropped back, he had a defender in his face. Blitz stats were calculated differently. I don't have the stats this year, but can't imagine it improved all that much with Sullivan and Loadholdt on IR. Teddy also was #1 in the NFL, ahead of Drew Brees on accuracy under pressure in 2014. Success in spite of poor OL play is an elite trait to have. If you adjusted for OL, Teddy would see a humongous boost in stats adjusted for his situation.

-If you look at stats like Eli Manning when throwing to Odell Beckham Vs any other WR or any other QB with a top WR and see the difference it makes, it's intuitive that Teddy would see a huge boost... but would be super taxing to calculate how much the average #1 WR boosts a QBs stats, how much each QB goes to the #1, and how much the QB would then produce with an "average #1 WR"...

-put him on a team with a bad defense and he's certain to get more yards and TDs per attempt with defense playing prevent late in the game.

Nevertheless... Bridgewater doesn't have a single WR on his team that was either drafted or acquired through trade for more than a 4th rounder (Patterson doesn't count because he doesn't see the field). He would see a substantial boost, particularly in deep all accuracy and deepball stats which he struggles in if he were throwing to Julio Jones, AJ Green, or Odell Beckham... Or even Mike Evans... Particularly if he had time and didn't face inside pressure that forced him to roll out.
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If you could have every QB play a full season with an average offense.... Teddy would project to have stats in the top 10, no question and possibly top 5. The big caveat there is projections assume all things remain equal.
In reality, when you pass more, play action works less well, more players are in coverage, more defenders are keyed on the pass rather than the run, and the stats don't end up as well as the projections.

Put Teddy in the shotgun all game and have him throw 50 times a game just one game and I guarentee you he passes for 300 yards and multiple TDs. Do that in an entire season and Teddy with zero additional development will break records.... Do that for 10 years and Teddy will be talked about with the all time greats... Probably right next to Dan Marino... Because people love highlights and record stats even if they're inflated and meaningless.

Since 6 QBs make the probowl and 1 of the best this year are in the Super Bowl, I don't know why anyone thinks Teddy doesn't deserve to go... Especially when several turned down invites and ELI fricking Manning made it. :puke:
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Re: What??? Teddy to the Pro Bowl?

Post by Mothman »

mike2mike wrote:If you're going to look at stats... Be smart about it. The probowl is about the best and most talented players, not those who win the most fantasy football games but throw 5INTs for TDs and lose the game.

-If Teddy had as many passing attempts as Phil Rivers and maintained the same yards per attempt, he'd have ranked 3rd in NFL yardage ahead of Tom Brady. So his ability to produce yards with even a conservative mentality is there if he was asked to throw the ball often. Even if you just set everyone at an average number of attempts and adjust players, Teddy would see a boost while many of the "top QBs" in yards would see a drop.

-If he didn't have as many throw aways and grounding at the feet as a result of responding to his coaching and a conservative offense, he'd have even more. He might have more INTs and we might have not won the North... But who cares, right? :wallbang: . You could say that about everyone, but I mean if you adjusted for everyone, Teddy would see a more substantial boost than most because of the nature of the offense.

-You could use stats and math to approximate how offensive line play effects stats. In short, you could use a combination of league baseline stats under pressure and when not under pressure and adjust for how frequently a player was under pressure. In 2014 I think Teddy was under pressure a whopping 40% of all plays... Meaning when teams would rush 4 defenders, 40% of the time Teddy dropped back, he had a defender in his face. Blitz stats were calculated differently. I don't have the stats this year, but can't imagine it improved all that much with Sullivan and Loadholdt on IR. Teddy also was #1 in the NFL, ahead of Drew Brees on accuracy under pressure in 2014. Success in spite of poor OL play is an elite trait to have. If you adjusted for OL, Teddy would see a humongous boost in stats adjusted for his situation.

-If you look at stats like Eli Manning when throwing to Odell Beckham Vs any other WR or any other QB with a top WR and see the difference it makes, it's intuitive that Teddy would see a huge boost... but would be super taxing to calculate how much the average #1 WR boosts a QBs stats, how much each QB goes to the #1, and how much the QB would then produce with an "average #1 WR"...

-put him on a team with a bad defense and he's certain to get more yards and TDs per attempt with defense playing prevent late in the game.

Nevertheless... Bridgewater doesn't have a single WR on his team that was either drafted or acquired through trade for more than a 4th rounder (Patterson doesn't count because he doesn't see the field). He would see a substantial boost, particularly in deep all accuracy and deepball stats which he struggles in if he were throwing to Julio Jones, AJ Green, or Odell Beckham... Or even Mike Evans... Particularly if he had time and didn't face inside pressure that forced him to roll out.
--------
If you could have every QB play a full season with an average offense.... Teddy would project to have stats in the top 10, no question and possibly top 5. The big caveat there is projections assume all things remain equal.
In reality, when you pass more, play action works less well, more players are in coverage, more defenders are keyed on the pass rather than the run, and the stats don't end up as well as the projections.

Put Teddy in the shotgun all game and have him throw 50 times a game just one game and I guarentee you he passes for 300 yards and multiple TDs.
I wouldn't be so sure. He has 3 career games with 40+ attempts and he didn't throw for more than 1 TD in any of them. In fact, he's only thrown for more than 1 TD in 6 of the 29 games he's played.
Do that in an entire season and Teddy with zero additional development will break records.... Do that for 10 years and Teddy will be talked about with the all time greats... Probably right next to Dan Marino... Because people love highlights and record stats even if they're inflated and meaningless.
They also like genuinely good QB play, which Dan Marino provided in spades. We've seen far too little of it from Bridgewater.
Since 6 QBs make the probowl and 1 of the best this year are in the Super Bowl, I don't know why anyone thinks Teddy doesn't deserve to go...
You don't understand why some people feel a QB who led one of the least effective passing games in the NFL shouldn't be in the Pro Bowl? Bridgewater is not one of the 7 best QBs in the league.
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