Vikings Message Board.Com

dkoby wrote: Thanks for posting that.

One thing is for sure.....he will sink or swim with the QB they pick in this draft. No one will accept that Cassel is the answer and we need a solid quality playmaker behind center.

Having Speilman alone to blame is an upgrade over the past power structures in the Vikings organization. At least we will know who to blame....for sure.

It sounds like you blame him already.

Don't you think the QB they draft-and you are making an assumption that he WILL draft one at all-will be done after conferring with the new head coach? Why will the result be entirely on Spielman's head? He can't coach the QB. He can't determine what the picks performance will be. And we don't even know that he will draft a QB this year, we just know he will probably be looking to pick one up one way or the other.

Purple bruise wrote:Why beat a dead horse? What's done is done and it is time to move on from the Frazier era. I am quite hopefull that the Vikes have a good draft and find "their" QB.

Dude, what do you think is the purrpose of this message board? Its to discuss these things ad nauseum so we can vent to our fellow Vikings fans and not drive our wives crazy!!
We're only a couple of days removed from a massive decision that, good or bad, will affect our beloved Vikings for years to come. You really think we should just stop analyzing this now because we can't change Zyggie's mind??? By that logic let's not talk about anything because it's not like we can influence Tricky Ricky's decisions on FA and the draft. Do you guys want to talk about what I want to eat for lunch, because that's one of the few things that I can control
I can't speak for everyone, but it's not like I see anyone aggressively defending Frazier. If you read the original post, I said my feelings were mixed on Frazier and maybe he deserved 1 more year. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. My point, as Demi mentioned earlier, is only that Slicky Ricky has his hands on the mess AT LEAST as much as Frazier, so why does he get to keep his job and Frazier is booted??

I think Mothman's speculation on the QB situation has a lot of merit. Frazier seems like the kind of guy who would shoulder the blame and try not to offend his boss in public. Slicky Ricky is the kind of guy that would try to pass the buck when things go wrong and take the credit when things go well. Tricky Ricky seems like he'd fit in well in a corporate board room.
We will never know who wanted to start Freeman but it just seems completely out of character for Frazier to do so-completely against his ultra conservative nature.

Webbfann wrote: It sounds like you blame him already.

Don't you think the QB they draft-and you are making an assumption that he WILL draft one at all-will be done after conferring with the new head coach? Why will the result be entirely on Spielman's head? He can't coach the QB. He can't determine what the picks performance will be. And we don't even know that he will draft a QB this year, we just know he will probably be looking to pick one up one way or the other.

It is all about the blame game Some people obviously love to complain and blame over and over again.

It is all about the blame game Some people obviously love to complain and blame over and over again

I think you have more posts complaining about us complainers, than our combined complaining posts!

And yes, I realize that now I am complaining about your complaining about complaining!!

Happy 2014 Vikings fans!!!

VikingPaul73 wrote: I think you have more posts complaining about us complainers, than our combined complaining posts!

And yes, I realize that now I am complaining about your complaining about complaining!!

Happy 2014 Vikings fans!!!

It is a vicous circle and I stand guilty. I just happen to be an optimist and it has always served me well throughout my life (so far).
Honestly, I can understand complaining about things, it is only right and quite natural. What I DO NOT like is when, and it is usually the same posters saying the same thing a 1000 time over

Try saying "hindsight is 20/20" again. It never gets old.

Eli wrote:Try saying "hindsight is 20/20" again. It never gets old.

It might never get old but your constant cynicism sure does And FYI I have been trying to avoid your junk but since you once again must feel compelled to start some more comments about me

Purple bruise wrote: It might never get old but ...

No, it does. Really, really old.

Don't you have anything new to complain about?

Eli wrote: No, it does. Really, really old.

Don't you have anything new to complain about?

JUST YOU AT THE MOMENT

Mothman wrote:The beloved Patrick Reusse weighs in with his thoughts on the "QB chaos" of this season:

http://www.1500espn.com/sportswire/PJR_ ... lman123113

Ah the old conspiracy piece. Just as other reporters are re-tweeting quotes about a jaded ex-kicker calling Frazier a "man of integrity" and how well respected he is by his players, Reusse inadvertently (most likely, because he's an ignoramus) throws Frazier under the bus.

Frazier reneged on all those midseason quotes in which he claimed to be starting Christian Ponder because he was the quarterback who gave his team "the best chance to win.''

Reneged is an interesting choice of words. If you look it up in the dictionary it means, to "go back on a promise, undertaking, or contract." Hmm... that doesn't sound like a man of integrity to me. Maybe the article will clear this up by the end.

Here's what I don't believe:

I don't believe that Leslie Frazier meant it when he said for six weeks in midseason that Ponder gave his team the best chance to win.

So... you don't believe Frazier was telling the truth when he said Ponder gave the team the best chance to win. So, basically Frazier is a liar. And a habitual liar at that. Huh.

See that's the problem with the conspiracy that Frazier had a gun to his head in these decisions. He was emphatic in his statements, ones that often came right after the conclusion of a loss. Ponder is the starter. He gives us the best chance to win. We heard it, not once, not twice, but over and over again. So now we're to believe he was lying to us all along? A spineless coach bending to the whims of the evil GM?

Here's what I believe. I believe Frazier is a man of integrity and a man of his word. If he says it, he believes it. So when he said Ponder gives the team the best chance to win, I think he meant it. Which of course is a strike against him in terms of his coaching ability but the alternative to me is a lot worse. To think that he was lying to the fans week after week sounds a heck of a lot worse than a guy who just lacks the ability to identify talent.

Reusse as usual paints himself into a corner. Frazier was either telling the truth to us all along, a case against his coaching ability or he was lying to the fans on a regular basis. It's either or in my book, a half truth is still a lie, so which one is it? Personally I think Frazier would rather go out as a man of integrity than as one whose word cannot be trusted. I'm sure Reusse thought he was helping Fraizer with this piece but he would have been better off not writing it at all.

S197 wrote: Ah the old conspiracy piece. Just as other reporters are re-tweeting quotes about a jaded ex-kicker calling Frazier a "man of integrity" and how well respected he is by his players, Reusse inadvertently (most likely, because he's an ignoramus) throws Frazier under the bus.
Reneged is an interesting choice of words. If you look it up in the dictionary it means, to "go back on a promise, undertaking, or contract." Hmm... that doesn't sound like a man of integrity to me. Maybe the article will clear this up by the end.
So... you don't believe Frazier was telling the truth when he said Ponder gave the team the best chance to win. So, basically Frazier is a liar. And a habitual liar at that. Huh.

See that's the problem with the conspiracy that Frazier had a gun to his head in these decisions. He was emphatic in his statements, ones that often came right after the conclusion of a loss. Ponder is the starter. He gives us the best chance to win. We heard it, not once, not twice, but over and over again. So now we're to believe he was lying to us all along? A spineless coach bending to the whims of the evil GM?

Here's what I believe. I believe Frazier is a man of integrity and a man of his word. If he says it, he believes it. So when he said Ponder gives the team the best chance to win, I think he meant it. Which of course is a strike against him in terms of his coaching ability but the alternative to me is a lot worse. To think that he was lying to the fans week after week sounds a heck of a lot worse than a guy who just lacks the ability to identify talent.

Reusse as usual paints himself into a corner. Frazier was either telling the truth to us all along, a case against his coaching ability or he was lying to the fans on a regular basis. It's either or in my book, a half truth is still a lie, so which one is it? Personally I think Frazier would rather go out as a man of integrity than as one whose word cannot be trusted. I'm sure Reusse thought he was helping Fraizer with this piece but he would have been better off not writing it at all.

Totally agree

Webbfann wrote: It sounds like you blame him already.

Don't you think the QB they draft-and you are making an assumption that he WILL draft one at all-will be done after conferring with the new head coach? Why will the result be entirely on Spielman's head? He can't coach the QB. He can't determine what the picks performance will be. And we don't even know that he will draft a QB this year, we just know he will probably be looking to pick one up one way or the other.

I'm not sure about anything with RIck. He is very good at getting picks, But, as he even said....he missed on picking QB's. I guess my point was that there will be clear accountability for the make-up of the team. Something that has been lacking in the past. ALA the TOA He has picked some good players and missed on some. I would put him at average in talent eval minus QB's.
I wouldn't have been heartbroken either way if he was fired this year also.
A plus was that we have 5 first round pick in the last 2 years. Something we sorely needed.
Oh, and they MUST draft a QB this year.

More Reusse, on the split between Frazier and Spielman, with a timeline on the evolution of power since 2006

http://m.1500espn.com/pages/sportswire.php?sID=9274

11-October 2013: The Vikings signed Josh Freeman, released in Tampa Bay, coming off their bye week. The legend had been this happened strictly on Spielman's initiative. In actuality, Frazier pushed hard to sign Freeman and the Wilfs went along with the idea.

The coach knew he had to win some games with a "quarterback of the future'' (meaning, not Cassel) to save his job. He also had seen enough from Ponder to know he wasn't the guy, and was hoping it could be Freeman.

After that fiasco, Frazier was stuck going back to Ponder. He kept saying Ponder gave the Vikings "the best chance to win,'' when he probably wanted to say was, ''I know Cassel gives us the best chance to win, but if Ponder doesn't show he can play and be our future at quarterback, I'm going to get fired anyway.''

More at the link.


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CalVike wrote:More Reusse, on the split between Frazier and Spielman, with a timeline on the evolution of power since 2006

http://m.1500espn.com/pages/sportswire.php?sID=9274
More at the link.

THanks for posting. I got a good laugh at this line. Vikes are being lead by a bunch of amateurs.

2-May 2006: Fran Foley is hired as vice president for player personnel on Jan. 26, bumps heads with Childress and others at Winter Park, and is fired on May 3, right after the draft. Rick Spielman, a former NFL executive the Wilfs had seen on ESPN, is hired for the VP personnel job three weeks later. He is a secondary figure to Childress in the football operation and in his clout with the Wilfs.

VikingPaul73 wrote:I got a good laugh at this line. Vikes are being lead by a bunch of amateurs.

One columnist pointed out both Wilf's (Team President Mark and CEO Zygi) jump on a plane to New Jersey immediately after the games, except in weeks like this one when there is a hammer to be dropped. They seemed out of touch with Childress, firing him less than a year into a contract extension after finally reading the pulse of the players in 2010. It seems they are growing in allowing Spielman to ascend to GM versus giving Childress total control from day 1 in 2006, not surprising given it's been stated Bud Grant was their NFL advisor on the Childress hire and Grant stated total roster control was given to him as a condition of his 1967 hire. It's clear the Wilf's sign off on all major decisions like the Freeman signing, unclear who pushed harder for it Spielman or Frazier.

I don't think the Wilf's being so far away from day-to-day operations in Minnesota has been particularly good for business. Hopefully giving more control to Spielman with the coaching hire will make it matter less. I am excited about having a single person in charge of this coaching hire and the clarity on accountability going forward despite any misgivings about the Wilf's skipping the tough decision on GM by simply elevating a formerly weak executive in place since 2006.


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