Vikings Message Board.Com

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:47 pm**

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:27 pm I have no problem reminding you guys what Teddy had. Teddy had It. He was calm under pressure despite being sacked a lot due to an awful oline. He threw with anticipation and most importantly, he was excellent in the 4th quarter. I believe in 2015 or 2016 he had the leagues best rating in the 4th. He also was money in the final 2 mins of halves. Lastly, he was young. Many saw that he was just scratching the surface of his abilities.

I don't need a reminder of what he had. I remember his strengths and limitations very well.

Bridgewater's gone. Ponder's gone. Keenum and Bradford are gone. None of them are likely to return to the Vikings, nor should we be eager to see any of them in purple again. The Vikings need to aim higher at the QB position and do better. With luck, Cousins will work out but I think most of us are dubious about that possibility. Even if he ends up solving their starting QB problems for the next 2 years, they should be trying to find terrific young talent that can compete to start, add quality depth to the position and grow into the kind of elite QB that can start for a decade. The Vikes haven't had a QB like that in a long time and none of the aforementioned QBs fit that description.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:41 pm**

Mothman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:47 pm
YikesVikes wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:27 pm I have no problem reminding you guys what Teddy had. Teddy had It. He was calm under pressure despite being sacked a lot due to an awful oline. He threw with anticipation and most importantly, he was excellent in the 4th quarter. I believe in 2015 or 2016 he had the leagues best rating in the 4th. He also was money in the final 2 mins of halves. Lastly, he was young. Many saw that he was just scratching the surface of his abilities.
I don't need a reminder of what he had. I remember his strengths and limitations very well.

Bridgewater's gone. Ponder's gone. Keenum and Bradford are gone. None of them are likely to return to the Vikings, nor should we be eager to see any of them in purple again. The Vikings need to aim higher at the QB position and do better. With luck, Cousins will work out but I think most of us are dubious about that possibility. Even if he ends up solving their starting QB problems for the next 2 years, they should be trying to find terrific young talent that can compete to start, add quality depth to the position and grow into the kind of elite QB that can start for a decade. The Vikes haven't had a QB like that in a long time and none of the aforementioned QBs fit that description.

Tark the last/only one?

I agree with you on one thing you said earlier for sure, Spielman is never going to be the guy to find our franchise QB.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:53 pm**

Mothman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:47 pm
YikesVikes wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:27 pm I have no problem reminding you guys what Teddy had. Teddy had It. He was calm under pressure despite being sacked a lot due to an awful oline. He threw with anticipation and most importantly, he was excellent in the 4th quarter. I believe in 2015 or 2016 he had the leagues best rating in the 4th. He also was money in the final 2 mins of halves. Lastly, he was young. Many saw that he was just scratching the surface of his abilities.
I don't need a reminder of what he had. I remember his strengths and limitations very well.

Bridgewater's gone. Ponder's gone. Keenum and Bradford are gone. None of them are likely to return to the Vikings, nor should we be eager to see any of them in purple again. The Vikings need to aim higher at the QB position and do better. With luck, Cousins will work out but I think most of us are dubious about that possibility. Even if he ends up solving their starting QB problems for the next 2 years, they should be trying to find terrific young talent that can compete to start, add quality depth to the position and grow into the kind of elite QB that can start for a decade. The Vikes haven't had a QB like that in a long time and none of the aforementioned QBs fit that description.

I agree. We need to draft our guy. That's the only way. Our team needs to focus on that more than anything else. We tried with Cousins and he was the best available. I'll give Speilman credit for that. We have one more year of him. But we need a guy ready to take over. I hate it like everyone else. I'm disappointed that it didn't work out. But this guy will never beat a good team with us. That has already been proven. I even went to his defense for the Green Bay lose and the interception. I jumped on the OC call and I still think it is one of the dumbest calls I have ever seen. To me that guy will always be an idiot. The smarter people on the board blamed Cousins for a stupid throw. I stand by them now 100 %. Cousins lost that for us. He chocked big time. That's what he is a chocker. Even the Bear game. He was so tense that he could barley move. Mack had him scared to death. He's a gutless loser. That's why he was a FA. The idiot OC we have is toast. One and done. Same with Kub. He's lost all marbles. He should be kicked to the curb now. So we will get the next stiff in to fix Cousins next year but it's too late. He's broken, worthless and gutless. But we are stuck for one more year. That blows. Strike 2020 off right now. Speilman needs to trade the building everything and get us into position to draft a guy or he too should be canned right during the draft. QB is goal 1 through a billion. Nothing else matters at this point.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:04 pm**

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:40 pm
Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:21 pm

.500?? Where are you coming up with that. He was 6-8 his rookie year. And out of those 6 wins, not one of them were a "winning team". As a matter of fact, the teams he beat had a combine record of 28-67-1. And 1 of those 6 wins he had (Tampa Bay), was single-handedly won by Anthony Barr on the scoop and score in OT. And that Tampa team won 2 games all year. So he rookie year was far from impressive.

And yeah, the best RB in the NFL was back in 2015 but he was the offense. Like Jim said, we were 31st in passing offense. How was Teddy a big part of this offense? We couldnt move the ball through the air that was the problem. When AP was shut down, we lost. I explained it above. Teddy couldnt carry the team if the run game wasnt working. He couldnt carry the team in general.

I've said this before and I know Jim remembers, as hard as this fan base is on QBs, I've never seen a QB get praised so much for doing so little like Teddy Bridgewater. I never understood it. Yeah I was intrigued by the potential, I liked Teddy and was devastated when the injury happened but he didnt prove much at all as a passer. I feel like he still hasnt. Having a good game against the NFLs worst secondary doesnt prove anything to me. No less for us to keep him following the 2017 season just wasnt in the cards. He was still a complete question mark mainly coming off that injury but also as a passer. And to defend him as a winning QB, is about as bad as defending Christian Ponder as a winning QB
That would be quite the feat to go 6-8 in 12 games started.

I would also never defend Ponder as a winning QB, because he isn’t a winning QB. 14-21-1 as a starter.

Lol but that’s what you take from this sorry accidentally counted the GB game where we got destroyed. And sure, didn’t start the saints game but came in during the 2nd quarter when we were down 13-6....and didn’t win the game. But again....that’s what you pull from the post. Something that you found as “wrong” but completely miss the point. Doesn’t surprise me with you. bottom line is, Teddy bridgewater did not lead us to wins. There is zero arguing that. When we lost it was because AP struggled. When we won it was because AP blew up and the D played well. Teddy was a game manager at best and we were a one dimensional offense because of him. No other way around it

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:07 pm**

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:41 pmTark the last/only one?

Yeah, he's really the only one who had that potential and fulfilled it in MN. I think Kramer could have been elite for a decade but injuries and off-the-field issues got in the way. I believe he had the talent and leadership ability though.

Culpepper arguably had the talent too but that didn't work out. I don't think Brad Johnson was ever an elite talent but he's a guy they should have held on to and ultimately, he won a Super Bowl ring.

I agree with you on one thing you said earlier for sure, Spielman is never going to be the guy to find our franchise QB

I think he'd have to change his approach and I don't think that's likely at this point.

Anyway, I think it's pointless for us fans to keep arguing about all the also-rans. The Vikes need to finally solve this problem!

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:19 pm**

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:12 pm
Mothman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:03 pm

Another illustration that it's the rest of the team as well as the QB that determines the W/L record.
Good QBs can play on really bad teams and have losing records, bad QBs can play on really good ones and have a winning record, but eventually, with enough starts, the good ones will win, and the bad ones will lose. So far, in two seasons worth of starts, Teddy hasn't started losing. We will see what happens.

Back to this guy. He can't pass well enough. He has a pop gun arm and his ball floats and flutters. He sucks. Bad pick and people still don't see it. Bring back Teddy and bring back Ponder to. His arm sucks also. Teddy will start and be backed up by Ponder. To top it off bring the genius Culpepper back to be the OC. Our playbook will have 5 plays in it. 3 bomb plays, a QB run and a hand off up the gut. That should work. Fran can come back to. He can take Kub's spot. Bring Kapp back also. He can teach the guys how to throw a siral.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:29 pm**

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:04 pm
StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:40 pm
That would be quite the feat to go 6-8 in 12 games started.

I would also never defend Ponder as a winning QB, because he isn’t a winning QB. 14-21-1 as a starter.
Lol but that’s what you take from this sorry accidentally counted the GB game where we got destroyed. And sure, didn’t start the saints game but came in during the 2nd quarter when we were down 13-6....and didn’t win the game. But again....that’s what you pull from the post. Something that you found as “wrong” but completely miss the point. Doesn’t surprise me with you. bottom line is, Teddy bridgewater did not lead us to wins. There is zero arguing that. When we lost it was because AP struggled. When we won it was because AP blew up and the D played well. Teddy was a game manager at best and we were a one dimensional offense because of him. No other way around it

Actually, this isn't correct. In the last half of APs 2015 season he struggled and we still won games. Teddy won us games.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:35 pm**

Week 17: AP 67 Yards - 20-13 Vikes
Week 15: AP 63 yards - 38-17 Vikes

AP Stats the last 5 weeks of the season wer
2.25 yards per rush
3.00 yards per rush
3.50 yards per rush
4.73 yards per rush
3.53 yards per rush.

Vikes were 3 and 2 in those games.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:37 pm**

Mothman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:47 pm
YikesVikes wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:27 pm I have no problem reminding you guys what Teddy had. Teddy had It. He was calm under pressure despite being sacked a lot due to an awful oline. He threw with anticipation and most importantly, he was excellent in the 4th quarter. I believe in 2015 or 2016 he had the leagues best rating in the 4th. He also was money in the final 2 mins of halves. Lastly, he was young. Many saw that he was just scratching the surface of his abilities.
I don't need a reminder of what he had. I remember his strengths and limitations very well.

Bridgewater's gone. Ponder's gone. Keenum and Bradford are gone. None of them are likely to return to the Vikings, nor should we be eager to see any of them in purple again. The Vikings need to aim higher at the QB position and do better. With luck, Cousins will work out but I think most of us are dubious about that possibility. Even if he ends up solving their starting QB problems for the next 2 years, they should be trying to find terrific young talent that can compete to start, add quality depth to the position and grow into the kind of elite QB that can start for a decade. The Vikes haven't had a QB like that in a long time and none of the aforementioned QBs fit that description.

Lol had what? He was strip sacked twice in 2015 to seal the game. But it’s because he had a bad OL. But again, not completely defending cousins but why aren’t we allowed to blame the OL this year? Or last? I mentioned how the OL has played terrible against good fronts and that’s being defended somehow? But it was ok that teddy got sacked a lot and fell apart on the final drive of the game twice that year because “he had a bad OL”. Makes sense

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:16 pm**

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:29 pmActually, this isn't correct. In the last half of APs 2015 season he struggled and we still won games. Teddy won us games.

I think the only game about which that can be said is the win over Chicago in MN. Bridgewater had a great game that day. The Vikings blew out the Giants a week later and pretty much everything worked for them, including Peterson, who had a 100+ yards rushing. Bridgewater certainly contributed that day too. It was a real team win.

One week later, Bridgewater was awful in the season finale against GB.

In the 5 games prior to those last 3, the Vikings had 2 wins: @Oakland and @Atlanta. Peterson was the offensive key to both, with 158 yards rushing against the Falcons and 203 yards rushing against the Raiders.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:27 pm**

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:35 pm Week 17: AP 67 Yards - 20-13 Vikes
Week 15: AP 63 yards - 38-17 Vikes

AP Stats the last 5 weeks of the season wer
2.25 yards per rush
3.00 yards per rush
3.50 yards per rush
4.73 yards per rush
3.53 yards per rush.

Vikes were 3 and 2 in those games.

In my best CC voice: "Come on, man!"

I'm just kidding around but in that week 17 game, Bridgewater was 10-19 for 99 yards, 1 INT, 0 TDs, 1 lost fumble. He was sacked 3 times. That win can't reasonably be attributed to his performance. This was his most memorable play of the night was this interception.

AD's number weren't great in that game but he had their only offensive TD and they still relied on running the ball to help them grind out a tough win. Thielen had 2 carries for 67 yards. McKinnon had 4 for 15. The Vikes rushed for 157 as a team and scored a TD on defense. That's how they won.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:35 pm**

Mothman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:27 pm
YikesVikes wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:35 pm Week 17: AP 67 Yards - 20-13 Vikes
Week 15: AP 63 yards - 38-17 Vikes

AP Stats the last 5 weeks of the season wer
2.25 yards per rush
3.00 yards per rush
3.50 yards per rush
4.73 yards per rush
3.53 yards per rush.

Vikes were 3 and 2 in those games.
In my best CC voice: "Come on, man!"

I'm just kidding around but in that week 17 game, Bridgewater was 10-19 for 99 yards, 1 INT, 0 TDs, 1 lost fumble. He was sacked 3 times. That win can't reasonably be attributed to his performance. This was his most memorable play of the night was this interception.

AD's number weren't great in that game but he had their only offensive TD and they still relied on running the ball to help them grind out a tough win. Thielen had 2 carries for 67 yards. McKinnon had 4 for 15. The Vikes rushed for 157 as a team and scored a TD on defense. That's how they won.

But you cant give week 17 to Peterson either. Come on, he had 67 yards rushing and below a 4.00 average. My response was to Ponders stating that everytime we won was because of Peterson. He was dreadful down the stretch.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:44 pm**

Mothman wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:27 pm
YikesVikes wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:35 pm Week 17: AP 67 Yards - 20-13 Vikes
Week 15: AP 63 yards - 38-17 Vikes

AP Stats the last 5 weeks of the season wer
2.25 yards per rush
3.00 yards per rush
3.50 yards per rush
4.73 yards per rush
3.53 yards per rush.

Vikes were 3 and 2 in those games.
In my best CC voice: "Come on, man!"

I'm just kidding around but in that week 17 game, Bridgewater was 10-19 for 99 yards, 1 INT, 0 TDs, 1 lost fumble. He was sacked 3 times. That win can't reasonably be attributed to his performance. This was his most memorable play of the night was this interception.

AD's number weren't great in that game but he had their only offensive TD and they still relied on running the ball to help them grind out a tough win. Thielen had 2 carries for 67 yards. McKinnon had 4 for 15. The Vikes rushed for 157 as a team and scored a TD on defense. That's how they won.

Who isn't letting Bridgewater go now?

I have come to the realization that there are three Teddy camps among Vikings fans. The group that wishes he was still here and continue to root for him to succeed, the large majority of indifferent fans, and the extremely vocal anti-Teddy contingent, who go on the warpath everytime anyone hints at Teddy's potential. WTF do you all still care this much? Why is it so important to you that people think Teddy sucks?

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:47 pm**

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:35 pmBut you cant give week 17 to Peterson either.

I'm not. It was clearly a team win but he was still the focal point of the offense in that game. He just didn't have a particularly successful game.

My response was to Ponders stating that everytime we won was because of Peterson. He was dreadful down the stretch.

I think "dreadful" is pushing it. For Pete's sake, he had 22 carries for 104 yards a week earlier.

The problem later in that season was clear: teams focused on shutting down Peterson because they didn't fear the Vikes passing game at all. The Bears and Giants were both crummy teams that couldn't pull off that strategy. The Cards and Seahawks were able do it successfully and both won. GB contained Peterson too but lost anyway.

Again, the point is the offense ran through Peterson that year. He was the focal point and when that strategy worked, they tended to be successful. When it didn't, they tended to lose in no small part because against quality opponents, the passing game was unable to pick up the slack. Unless an OL is dominant, it's hard for a running back to thrive every week when defenses don't respect the passing game and the latter can't make them pay for it.

Posted: **Tue Oct 08, 2019 8:00 pm**

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:44 pmWho isn't letting Bridgewater go now?

Please don't bait people, especially moderators. I'm just trying to keep the discussion based in fact.

I have come to the realization that there are three Teddy camps among Vikings fans. The group that wishes he was still here and continue to root for him to succeed, the large majority of indifferent fans, and the extremely vocal anti-Teddy contingent, who go on the warpath everytime anyone hints at Teddy's potential. WTF do you all still care this much? Why is it so important to you that people think Teddy sucks?

It's not important to me that people think Teddy sucks. I don't even think he sucks! I just don't think he should be given credit for accomplishments he never achieved. I've always been against misleading myth-making when it comes to players and coaches. I've never been "anti-Teddy" in the sense you're talking about above. I like the guy and hope he does well but from the moment he set foot in MN, there have been efforts to puff him up into a player he's never really been at the NFL level. Maybe he'll get there, maybe he won't. I don't have a horse in that race anymore since he's not a Viking.

However, I do know that he stunk it up in that 2015 regular season finale against GB and dag nab it, I won't be told differn't!

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