Vikings Message Board.Com

Mothman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:48 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 2:56 pm

Uh no, not buying that one. The amount of times I've heard, "Spielman cant find a good WR" (Thielen and Diggs then show up) then prior to the 2018 draft "Spielman cant draft a good OL" (in comes Brian Oneill). Like thats a bunch of bologna if you ask me.

"Can't" is a strong word and in these days of hyper-analysis of the draft, it doesn't take a genius to spot a top-10 QB prospect. However, Spielman's overall track record when drafting QBs and managing the position is abysmal. The Vikings would be fools to give him another shot at it. He's had 11 drafts to find the Vikings a franchise QB. Enough already!

It doesn’t take a genius to spot a top 10 QB prospect? Most QB prospects that are considered to be legit, go within the top 10. How often are we picking there? You don’t think Spielman had guys like wentz, Goff, Mahomes, Murray, etc at the top of his draft board?? I guarantee he has. But in order to get them he’d have to trade half of our future away to get them. When it comes to guys like Wilson that were drafted in later rounds, I guess 31 other teams have clueless GMs too because they all passed on him. What top QB did he pass over to draft someone else?? Especially when he became the GM in 2012? Mahomes, wentz, Goff, Watson, mayfield and Murray all went before we picked. Lamar Jackson I guess? Like you’re acting like these guys were sitting on his lap and he passed on them to draft a defensive lineman. That wasn’t the case.

And it’s certainly hard to find a top QB. Unless you’re picking top 2-3. And even then it’s no guarantee. Trubisky went 2nd and has looked below average. Then you look a little later and guys like darnold, Allen and Rosen have all been below average to terrible. Sure you can fault him for trading for Bradford and missing out on Watson/Mahomes but at the same time, I understand it given the roster we had, coming off playoffs and not wanting to waste a year. He was definitely at fault for having Shaun hill as a backup. But again, if we had a QB like Keenum or foles, we’d still be middle of the pack given the rest of our roster. Those QBs would have been in range but would still require a trade up.

Either way, you’re 110% wrong to say it easy to spot a top 10 QB. It’s not easy, at all. Especially in the draft process

I just don't get all the love for Keenum, I mean I know he did all he could for the team,but his ceiling wasn't very high.But I will give him this , he had respect in the locker room which is something Cousins is lacking. I have come to the conclusion that Cousins is what he is and will not be a guy who can lead a team deep into the post season ,he plays things too safe, afraid of making a mistake. I was happy when we got him, but not happy about the guaranteed money. Bottom line is we are stuck with him as I don't think our backup is even close to serviceable,but bringing back a journeyman like Keenum would be a ridiculous move.

Husker Vike wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:47 pm I just don't get all the love for Keenum, I mean I know he did all he could for the team,but his ceiling wasn't very high.But I will give him this , he had respect in the locker room which is something Cousins is lacking. I have come to the conclusion that Cousins is what he is and will not be a guy who can lead a team deep into the post season ,he plays things too safe, afraid of making a mistake. I was happy when we got him, but not happy about the guaranteed money. Bottom line is we are stuck with him as I don't think our backup is even close to serviceable,but bringing back a journeyman like Keenum would be a ridiculous move.

I don't get how a Vikings fan can NOT love what Case Keenum did for this team.

There are lots of videos of his play that season, but the one that stands out to me is the one where he's NOT on the field. The Vikings had just beaten Tampa Bay, and Mike Zimmer gave Keenum the game ball. The locker room went absolutely nuts. They mobbed him and dog piled him like baseball teams do when they win the World Series. The team loved that guy, and they loved playing for him.

Can anyone here honestly say that if Kirk Cousins were to get a game ball, there would be anything other than a golf clap?

You can see my my avatar that I'm a Joe Kapp fan. Joe Kapp was the very epitome of that kind of leadership. The team would have run through the fires of hell for Joe Kapp because he laid it on the line for them every single play. Kapp's ceiling, if you base it just on his talent, wasn't even as high as Keenum's, but he was the ultimate gamer. Case Keenum has that same willingness to lay it on the line for his team. Watch his runs from that season. You almost never saw him slide, yet he never gets hurt. And don't kid yourself. Case Keenum can sling the ball. He has a gunslinger mentality, which can get him in trouble with turnovers, but I believe that's what the Vikings need. Cousins is a yes-man. Zimmer says to not take chances ... Cousins happily obliges. You saw it against the Bears. I think the Vikings need a guy who will push Zimmer's envelope, somebody that Zimmer actually has to hold back. Kirk Cousins, the safe guy, has almost as many turnovers in four games as Keenum, the risk-taker, did for an entire season. Go figure.

We need leadership from the quarterback position. We're not getting it. I've said it before and I'll say it again ... I'd rather have Keenum than the way Cousins is playing.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:21 pm

Mothman wrote: ↑Fri Oct 04, 2019 3:48 pm

"Can't" is a strong word and in these days of hyper-analysis of the draft, it doesn't take a genius to spot a top-10 QB prospect. However, Spielman's overall track record when drafting QBs and managing the position is abysmal. The Vikings would be fools to give him another shot at it. He's had 11 drafts to find the Vikings a franchise QB. Enough already!

It doesn’t take a genius to spot a top 10 QB prospect? Most QB prospects that are considered to be legit, go within the top 10. How often are we picking there? You don’t think Spielman had guys like wentz, Goff, Mahomes, Murray, etc at the top of his draft board?? I guarantee he has. But in order to get them he’d have to trade half of our future away to get them. When it comes to guys like Wilson that were drafted in later rounds, I guess 31 other teams have clueless GMs too because they all passed on him. What top QB did he pass over to draft someone else?? Especially when he became the GM in 2012? Mahomes, wentz, Goff, Watson, mayfield and Murray all went before we picked. Lamar Jackson I guess? Like you’re acting like these guys were sitting on his lap and he passed on them to draft a defensive lineman. That wasn’t the case.

You misunderstood my point. I prefaced "it doesn't take a genius to spot a top-10 QB prospect" with "'Can't' is a strong word and in these days of hyper-analysis of the draft" to make the point that saying Spielman "can't" draft a good QB is probably a bridge too far.

Either way, you’re 110% wrong to say it easy to spot a top 10 QB. It’s not easy, at all. Especially in the draft process

I meant "Top 10" as in "top 10 picks of the draft", not as in "top 10 QBs in the NFL". The latter is obviously difficult.

The bottom line question isn't whether Spielman could select a good QB like that, it's whether he should still be entrusted with the responsibility of finding a franchise QB for the Vikings after 11 years of failing to solve the problem, despite considerable expenditure toward that end. I think his track record clearly says he's the wrong man for the job.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:32 amWe need leadership from the quarterback position. We're not getting it. I've said it before and I'll say it again ... I'd rather have Keenum than the way Cousins is playing.

I would too but he's long gone and in the end, probably wasn't going to be a long-term solution for the Vikings. It was fun to watch him lead the team during a pretty magical 2017 season and I think they were foolish to ignore the chemistry he had with the team and move on. At the very least, he could have been a good (and less expensive) bridge to a young QB.

Mothman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:22 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:32 amWe need leadership from the quarterback position. We're not getting it. I've said it before and I'll say it again ... I'd rather have Keenum than the way Cousins is playing.

I would too but he's long gone and in the end, probably wasn't going to be a long-term solution for the Vikings. It was fun to watch him lead the team during a pretty magical 2017 season and I think they were foolish to ignore the chemistry he had with the team and move on. At the very least, he could have been a good (and less expensive) bridge to a young QB.

I know he's long gone. I guess it still doesn't sit well with me, for the very reasons you mention.

This entire week has been tough. Thielen calling out the coaches/game plan/his quarterback in public ... Cousins apologizing even though Thielen was the one who broke protocol ... Zimmer failing to actually address the situation ... Diggs hinting that he wants out, even though he just got paid. I've always been a fan of Mike Zimmer, but his handling of this week has been abysmal. There's a huge leadership void.

Case Keenum, for all his perceived warts, brought this team together. I miss that.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 8:32 am
He has a gunslinger mentality, which can get him in trouble with turnovers, but I believe that's what the Vikings need. Cousins is a yes-man. Zimmer says to not take chances ... Cousins happily obliges. You saw it against the Bears. I think the Vikings need a guy who will push Zimmer's envelope, somebody that Zimmer actually has to hold back.

Yep, like Favre to Childress.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:44 amI know he's long gone. I guess it still doesn't sit well with me, for the very reasons you mention.

I feel the same way. The Vikings choice clearly doesn't sit well with many of us fans, which is why we have an ongoing 16 page thread here in 2019 titled "Case Keenum".

This entire week has been tough. Thielen calling out the coaches/game plan/his quarterback in public ... Cousins apologizing even though Thielen was the one who broke protocol ... Zimmer failing to actually address the situation ... Diggs hinting that he wants out, even though he just got paid. I've always been a fan of Mike Zimmer, but his handling of this week has been abysmal. There's a huge leadership void.

Case Keenum, for all his perceived warts, brought this team together. I miss that.

I fear we may miss it more this season, although hopefully I'm wrong about that. The Vikings feel like a team teetering on the edge of implosion.

Mothman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:15 am The Vikings feel like a team teetering on the edge of implosion.

I totally agree. I know it's TOTALLY different circumstances, and I'm not trying to draw any direct equivalencies, but I have the same feeling now as after the Love Boat scandal broke. It feels like the wheels are about to come off....

VikingPaul73 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:09 am

Mothman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:15 am The Vikings feel like a team teetering on the edge of implosion.

I totally agree. I know it's TOTALLY different circumstances, and I'm not trying to draw any direct equivalencies, but I have the same feeling now as after the Love Boat scandal broke. It feels like the wheels are about to come off....

Watch out if we lose this week to the Giants.

Look at our schedule. At KC. At the Chargers. At Seattle. At Dallas. Plus 4 more division games ... we've already lost to both GB and Chicago, and are we really better than Detroit? Plus Philly at home, who beat Green Bay in Lameblow.

Teetering on the edge of implosion may be understating it.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:27 am

VikingPaul73 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:09 am

I totally agree. I know it's TOTALLY different circumstances, and I'm not trying to draw any direct equivalencies, but I have the same feeling now as after the Love Boat scandal broke. It feels like the wheels are about to come off....

Watch out if we lose this week to the Giants.

Look at our schedule. At KC. At the Chargers. At Seattle. At Dallas. Plus 4 more division games ... we've already lost to both GB and Chicago, and are we really better than Detroit? Plus Philly at home, who beat Green Bay in Lameblow.

Teetering on the edge of implosion may be understating it.

I dont think we make playoffs, we may go 6-10

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:44 am

Mothman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 9:22 am

I would too but he's long gone and in the end, probably wasn't going to be a long-term solution for the Vikings. It was fun to watch him lead the team during a pretty magical 2017 season and I think they were foolish to ignore the chemistry he had with the team and move on. At the very least, he could have been a good (and less expensive) bridge to a young QB.

I know he's long gone. I guess it still doesn't sit well with me, for the very reasons you mention.

This entire week has been tough. Thielen calling out the coaches/game plan/his quarterback in public ... Cousins apologizing even though Thielen was the one who broke protocol ... Zimmer failing to actually address the situation ... Diggs hinting that he wants out, even though he just got paid. I've always been a fan of Mike Zimmer, but his handling of this week has been abysmal. There's a huge leadership void.

Case Keenum, for all his perceived warts, brought this team together. I miss that.

Case was in a no pressure situation. He was a backup. Nobody expected much. When he was a high priced FA signing he folded like a cheap suite because the pressure was turned up. People thought he would sign with shurmur. He didn't want him. He seen enough also. Case had a great year for us I won't deny that. But it's over and still not forgotten.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:27 amWatch out if we lose this week to the Giants.

Look at our schedule. At KC. At the Chargers. At Seattle. At Dallas. Plus 4 more division games ... we've already lost to both GB and Chicago, and are we really better than Detroit? Plus Philly at home, who beat Green Bay in Lameblow.

Teetering on the edge of implosion may be understating it.

I hear ya. If they lose this week the wheels might fly off in every direction.

Don't know where to put this..

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/277 ... saints-win

One thing that is obvious is Teddy has a lot more zip in his throws. Too bad it's the Saints but happy for him. 3-0 this year.

808vikingsfan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 7:50 pm Don't know where to put this..

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/277 ... saints-win

One thing that is obvious is Teddy has a lot more zip in his throws. Too bad it's the Saints but happy for him. 3-0 this year.

It is the same as he had here. Teddy has one more good game before Brees comes back and he will be the #1 free agent target this off season.

He has a long ways to go, but does anyone else feel sick about the thought of the Saints benefitting from our F up?