Vikings Message Board.Com

Our receivers (other than Percy, of course) CAN'T get open to save their lives. When they do get open, they can't catch the ball. Ponder is fine. I noticed at least 3 plays (could have been more) in which Ponder put the ball in the PERFECT location that ended up getting dropped. The most obvious was a 3rd down pass to Rudolph, who had the first down yds, hit him right in the hands (THEN THE NUMBERS) and was dropped.

Ponder knows what hes doing. He is a good NFL QB. He is the best YOUNG quarterback we have had in a while. IMO, unless he really starts sucking badly, he wont be going anywhere for quite some time. I know it sucks, but I'm seeing a Sam Bradford type of situation here. Too good to pass up, not a good enough team to help him progress to reach his fullest potential. Ponder needs to start MAKING plays on his own if he wants to succeed in the NFL. Looking back at yesterdays game, thats exactly what he did. During the first 3.5 quarters he ran the Musgrave offense. The last 1/2 of the 4th qtr he took the bull by the horns and ran his own offense. We scored once he starting running on his own...

I mean the guy did get his masters in like 2 years...

oh and by the way, you guys all argue about stupid stuff.

Why are we arguing about returning punts in a Ponder Progression thread?

Crax wrote: Yes, we do differ here. If a running back has the ball slip out while getting tackled, I think we generally all consider that poor play. It's one thing to get stood up and get it ripped away, it's different IMO to just drop the ball when your arm gets slapped.

this is a poor comparison. Running backs are running with the ball tucked securely in their arm, QBs in the pocket are holding the ball with just their hand. You see QBs fumble like this consistently, not to excuse Ponder, but it is pretty common for a QB to fumble when his arm is hit while he's still only holding the ball in his hand.

Ponder deserves a large part of the blame for sure, but I wouldn't say it's because he should be "securing" the ball better with one hand. He needs to feel the pressure better, and if he can't escape it, he needs to tuck the ball.

saint33 wrote: I wouldn't say it's because he should be "securing" the ball better with one hand.

I don't think I ever said that directly. I do believe he should be able to get his arm hit without the ball immediately flopping out though. I'm not saying he needs to go do a bunch of grip exercises. He just needs to be aware and more careful with the ball.

You see QBs fumble like this consistently,

Yes, generally while setting up to throw, not when they've already pulled the ball down and are looking to escape. It's generally the ball getting hit causing the fumble, not the arm. QB's that take off running with the one hand grip do seem to have this happen to them. They generally always get the blame for poor ball protection too.

We're probably getting too technical with arm vs ball being hit. I blame ponder for not securing the ball when he knew the pressure was there. He had already pulled the ball down and wasn't looking to throw. If you want to give him a pass for that fumble, fine.

He needs to feel the pressure better, and if he can't escape it, he needs to tuck the ball.

I agree with this

Crax wrote:We're probably getting too technical with arm vs ball being hit. I blame ponder for not securing the ball when he knew the pressure was there. He had already pulled the ball down and wasn't looking to throw. If you want to give him a pass for that fumble, fine.

As I said, he was trying to secure the ball when it was knocked loose. The pressure got there fast. The o-line really collapsed on that play.

Sometimes the defense just makes a good play.

Was it me or was Ponder almost constantly on the run yesterday? How many times did he actually get to stand in the pocket? I think that has a tremendous effect on how often or effectively they are able to go downfield.

It's all and good to have guys open downfield, but if your QB doesn't have the time to set and throw, what's the use?

On a related note, I agree he needs to speed up his read progressions. I do believe he is checking down, but maybe the checkdowns need to come faster considering the pourous OL.

Mothman wrote: As I said, he was trying to secure the ball when it was knocked loose. The pressure got there fast. The o-line really collapsed on that play.

Sometimes the defense just makes a good play.

I still haven't rewatched that play today, so I'll have to take your word on it. Did Charlie Johnson get worked over on that play too? I swear he's the weakest of the weak on that O-line.

BGM wrote:Was it me or was Ponder almost constantly on the run yesterday? How many times did he actually get to stand in the pocket? I think that has a tremendous effect on how often or effectively they are able to go downfield.

It's all and good to have guys open downfield, but if your QB doesn't have the time to set and throw, what's the use?

On a related note, I agree he needs to speed up his read progressions. I do believe he is checking down, but maybe the checkdowns need to come faster considering the pourous OL.

Luck was under constant pressure too and managed quite well.

BGM wrote:Was it me or was Ponder almost constantly on the run yesterday? How many times did he actually get to stand in the pocket? I think that has a tremendous effect on how often or effectively they are able to go downfield.

It's all and good to have guys open downfield, but if your QB doesn't have the time to set and throw, what's the use?

On a related note, I agree he needs to speed up his read progressions. I do believe he is checking down, but maybe the checkdowns need to come faster considering the pourous OL.

Honestly, as I'm re-watching the game, my suspicion is that the speed with which he makes his reads wasn't much of a factor. When the pressure came, it usually came fast and it often involved the inside of the line being pushed back, meaning Ponder had no room to step up. I'll have access to coaches film at NFL.com later in the week (fun!) and, time permitting, I plan to look specifically at plays where Ponder was under pressure to see what happened, how he reacted and if he had the opportunity to check down. It should be interesting!

Crax wrote:I still haven't rewatched that play today, so I'll have to take your word on it. Did Charlie Johnson get worked over on that play too? I swear he's the weakest of the weak on that O-line.

I'll check when I have a chance to watch it again but it wouldn't surprise me. There was pressure up the middle.

Mothman wrote:I'll check when I have a chance to watch it again but it wouldn't surprise me. There was pressure up the middle.

No need to re-watch it, I can tell you right now it was Johnson. They showed the replay later in the game and I was watching the line, he completely whiffed his block.

S197 wrote: No need to re-watch it, I can tell you right now it was Johnson. They showed the replay later in the game and I was watching the line, he completely whiffed his block.

If I recall correctly two rushers were coming at him on that play and he didn't react to block one fast enough so both got by him.

Could be thinking of a different play though.

S197 wrote: No need to re-watch it, I can tell you right now it was Johnson. They showed the replay later in the game and I was watching the line, he completely whiffed his block.

Thanks for the info!

Cliff wrote: If I recall correctly two rushers were coming at him on that play and he didn't react to block one fast enough so both got by him.

Could be thinking of a different play though.

I think you're correct, it was a jailbreak so there were multiple rushers. I think it was Redding that initially got past Johnson.

1noahz23 wrote:Christian has definately improved from last season. Already this year his stats are: 47/62, 515 yards, 2 TD, 0 INT. If he can do well next week against the powerhouse defense of the 49ers, his potential will skyrocket.

This is going to be a tough one for Ponder. Willis and Bowman aren't likely to let Harvin run as freely through the middle of the field as the Colts. The line also seems to have trouble picking up blitzes with 3-4 defenses, and with guys like Aldon Smith, Ponder could be running quite a bit. Add in the lack of a deep threat and the odds seem stacked against him. If he can perform well under those circumstances, it will certainly be very promising.

Honestly I'm looking more forward to the Lions game. If you recall from last year, Ponder had an absolutely horrendous game against the Lions secondary. Jerome Simpson will be back as well so I think this game will be a good litmus test for progress. You never want to judge a guy solely on one game, but this is the one (at least early in the season) that should prove most interesting IMO.

Crax wrote:He has a 1:1 TD to TO ratio right now. Not sure I'm getting real excited about that. I find it funny that people keep leaving off his fumbles when posting his stats, like they aren't as bad as INT's some how.

i find it funny how some people are really good at finding the negative in an extremely positive situation.


ponder has been eli manning like in the 4th quarter and overtime so far this year, very small sample size but what other qbs have been that good in the 4th quarter to start 2012. he has taken care of the ball, and fumbles will happen in the nfl when you get sacked, i dont care how strong your hands are. he has shown excellent decision making.

its the play calling on offense and defense and the lack of talent on defense that has done this team in. the ultraconservative scheme by the coaching staff is so crazy, stop trying to establish the run to open up the pass. it doesnt work, especially in the first half when the defense is 100% fresh.

ponder has been awesome. coaches terrible, defense quite bad.