McCarthy

[The Professional]

This guy is the real deal, IMHO.

Steal late in top ten picks.

Thoughts?

[VikingLord]

Hard to say yet. He looked pretty average in the limited time he played against the Texans, and camp reports have been mixed. Not even sure if we're going to see him play again before the opener against the Bears on Monday night.

If there is one thing he's got going for him it is that KOC fully backs him and if KOC is seeing what he likes, there is probably something real there.

One other item of note is how well Sam Howell did against the Texans. I was getting worried reading the camp reports saying Howell wasn't adjusting well, but he sure looked good last Sunday. He was zipping the ball all over the field. If McCarthy falters for any reason the Vikings need to have someone behind him who can come in and be effective, so Howell solidifying the backup QB spot is critical. And then Brosmer looked good too. The Vikings might have found something there.

I really look forward to seeing McCarthy play when it counts. Two nationally-televised prime time games to start the season should help us see if he is the real deal.

[CharVike]

IMO KOC must really like him and the team has invested big time trying to fix the OL. That gives him the best shot possible. I thought there might be an outside possibility they would keep Darnold and deal JJM for some draft capital during a QB thin draft class. I really enjoyed watching Darnold last season. He looked uncomfortable at times and had some bad games/throws but he wasn't afraid the throw the rock down field. He took a beating behind a bad interior OL but played every game. The highlight was after the last Packer game when his teammates lifted him up in the locker room. Those players had his back and showed great support for him which says something. JJM looks like a different player from a physical build point. He has some bulk now so the work is being put in.

[VikingLord]

I'm getting a little worried about Addison missing the first 3 games of the season. By all accounts, Addison has been an absolute beast so far in training camp. He's been uncoverable from what I understand, and he's not getting more favorable matchups because Jefferson is taking attention away from him due to JJ's hamstring injury.

And McCarthy has been going to him a lot. In the preseason game I think half of his attempts were to Addison. They've clearly got some chemistry between them.

When I heard that Addison would have to sit the first three games I thought it wouldn't be a big deal. Addison has been good to this point in his career, but not great, and I hadn't seen much that indicated Addison was going to take that next step as a pro. I also saw Nailor as a guy who could stand in for Addison without much of a drop off. At this point, I think both of those assumptions are proving to be false. Addison looks like a different player. He's still fast and shifty, but his route running seems more refined and precise, and he's playing with a sense of urgency on every down. He's playing like a receiver drafted in the first round. Nailor, on the other hand, has been pretty quiet. For a guy entering a contract year, I would have expected him to show up and show out, but he is being eclipsed by other Vikings receivers. I could see him very easily not making the roster. I thought that would not have been possible when training camp started, but the Vikings have a lot of young, hungry receivers. None of them are JJ or Addison (yet, anyway), but they are making plays.

Hard to say how this is going to shake out. JJ has to be healthy to start the season or I fear McCarthy is going to struggle to get out of the blocks.

[CharVike]

And on Thursday, fourth-year wideout Jalen Nailor — who is set to begin the season as the Vikings' No. 2 receiver behind Jefferson — spent most of the afternoon on the sideline after jamming his left hand early in practice.
"Jalen Nailor kinda jammed his hand at one point," Kevin O'Connell said afterward. "We wanted to be smart with that. We'll evaluate him and see what that looks like."

[makila]

Posted in another thread, but more applicable here.

Heard Nailor is banged up now on Purple Daily pod (didn't get to see the game on Saturday, guessing it was discussed then). I've banged the drum here that our WR depth is not what people want to make it out to be. Multiple guys who haven't been able to stay healthy in their careers. Growing concerned now with Moore done, and Nailor already banged up, plus missing Addison for three games. Has anyone heard more info on Nailor's injury since late last week?

Hock will have to be used even more of a pass catcher now, and Oliver in the blocking roll. They both fit those rolls well though.

[CharVike]

Posted in another thread, but more applicable here.

Heard Nailor is banged up now on Purple Daily pod (didn't get to see the game on Saturday, guessing it was discussed then). I've banged the drum here that our WR depth is not what people want to make it out to be. Multiple guys who haven't been able to stay healthy in their careers. Growing concerned now with Moore done, and Nailor already banged up, plus missing Addison for three games. Has anyone heard more info on Nailor's injury since late last week?

Hock will have to be used even more of a pass catcher now, and Oliver in the blocking roll. They both fit those rolls well though.

Last year Addison missed weeks 2 and 3. We won both. We picked a guy in round 3 who seems like a good prospect. He'll have to help. As long as Jefferson is ready we can make it through.

[CharVike]

WR Justin Jefferson (hamstring) is expected to return to practice this week, head coach Kevin O'Connell told reporters Monday. Nailor is week to week.

[makila]

Posted in another thread, but more applicable here.

Heard Nailor is banged up now on Purple Daily pod (didn't get to see the game on Saturday, guessing it was discussed then). I've banged the drum here that our WR depth is not what people want to make it out to be. Multiple guys who haven't been able to stay healthy in their careers. Growing concerned now with Moore done, and Nailor already banged up, plus missing Addison for three games. Has anyone heard more info on Nailor's injury since late last week?

Hock will have to be used even more of a pass catcher now, and Oliver in the blocking roll. They both fit those rolls well though.

Last year Addison missed weeks 2 and 3. We won both. We picked a guy in round 3 who seems like a good prospect. He'll have to help. As long as Jefferson is ready we can make it through.

Our depth is still poor, regardless if Addison plays or not. If Nailor is set to miss any real time, we have nothing proven past the first two WR in our room. They are being really weird with comments about Nailor right now. Obviously someone could surprise us, but they haven't looked good frankly.

[Cliff]

Last year Addison missed weeks 2 and 3. We won both. We picked a guy in round 3 who seems like a good prospect. He'll have to help. As long as Jefferson is ready we can make it through.

Eh apples to oranges. Our depth is still poor, regardless if Addison plays or not. If Nailor is set to miss any real time, we have nothing proven past the first two WR in our room. They are being really weird with comments about Nailor right now. Obviously someone could surprise us, but they haven't looked good frankly.

I think if you take out the top 3 players from any position on any team the position depth suddenly looks poor. What team can you take their top 3 WRs out and say they've got "proven players" after that? It's more an issue with luck than depth.

[Cliff]

This guy is the real deal, IMHO.

Steal late in top ten picks.

Thoughts?

I think these young QBs are mostly as good as the teams around them. Take Darnold, that guy was part of complete dumpster fires until he got to the Vikings. His best WRs were guys that you've never heard of and are now 3rd or 4th on depth charts or out of the league. They can't do it alone. That's not to say he didn't have his own issues but so does every QB. Put Mahomes on the 2018 - 2020 Jets then 2021 and 2022 Panthers and you'd be calling him a bust.

When KOC said "I believe that organizations fail young quarterbacks before young quarterbacks fail organizations." it's absolutely true and as such, I expect McCarthy to do well even if he still struggles at times like basically all young QBs. We can at least be confident in saying if he fails it's almost certainly on him. He'll be put in a great position and it's on him to take advantage.

[makila]

Eh apples to oranges. Our depth is still poor, regardless if Addison plays or not. If Nailor is set to miss any real time, we have nothing proven past the first two WR in our room. They are being really weird with comments about Nailor right now. Obviously someone could surprise us, but they haven't looked good frankly.

I think if you take out the top 3 players from any position on any team the position depth suddenly looks poor. What team can you take their top 3 WRs out and say they've got "proven players" after that? It's more an issue with luck than depth.

That's fair.

I think counting on guys who have injury historys like Moore and Nailor is risky. I get it that guys like Moore have high upside, and are a potential buy low. Really want(ed) a vet to be brought in. When I say proven, I mean some sort of consistent production for the role asked to play. Not necessarily 1000 yd seasons.

[psjordan]

Getting back to McCarthy, I’m very nervous, plain and simple.

WRT his college days, he seems to get a lot of reviews like “well he CAN make those throws, he’s just never been asked to”. “Well he CAN dominate a game throwing the ball, he’s just never been asked to on a consistent basis”.

Well, I guess I’m asking now. He’s got very little on tape with the Vikes, and honestly what I’ve seen so far is underwhelming. Yeah he’s made a play here and there, but I have yet to see a throw where I say to myself “now THERE is why he was a top 10 pick”.

I’m also very underwhelmed with the preseason plan (to date) not to play him more than one series. Seems every other starter out there is getting a series or two in each game. Even wily, injury-prone veterans like Burrow.

Two things are making me hold my opinions in check however:

I was talking to an older UM grad who lived locally to UM for the McCarthy years. An absolute football junkie, attended every football event possible. His opinion after watching McCarthy do everything from hold a clipboard to beating Ohio State three times, was that 1000% McCarthy is the real deal and has all the tools to be an exceptional pro. The guy offering the opinion holds no special status other than seeing McCarthy play in person WAY more than I have.

And two, I’ll admit that maybe, just maybe KOC knows more about developing QB’s than I do.

So I am in wait-and-see mode, but I’d sure like some concrete proof - even if fleeting - that he can excel at this level. I’m certainly not trumpeting McCarthy in any conversations quite yet, but I'm also willing to wait 3-4 games into the season to at least be comfortable that he will be The Guy with time and patience.

[Cliff]

Getting back to McCarthy, I’m very nervous, plain and simple.

WRT his college days, he seems to get a lot of reviews like “well he CAN make those throws, he’s just never been asked to”. “Well he CAN dominate a game throwing the ball, he’s just never been asked to on a consistent basis”.

Well, I guess I’m asking now. He’s got very little on tape with the Vikes, and honestly what I’ve seen so far is underwhelming. Yeah he’s made a play here and there, but I have yet to see a throw where I say to myself “now THERE is why he was a top 10 pick”.

I’m also very underwhelmed with the preseason plan (to date) not to play him more than one series. Seems every other starter out there is getting a series or two in each game. Even wily, injury-prone veterans like Burrow.

Two things are making me hold my opinions in check however:

I was talking to an older UM grad who lived locally to UM for the McCarthy years. An absolute football junkie, attended every football event possible. His opinion after watching McCarthy do everything from hold a clipboard to beating Ohio State three times, was that 1000% McCarthy is the real deal and has all the tools to be an exceptional pro. The guy offering the opinion holds no special status other than seeing McCarthy play in person WAY more than I have.

And two, I’ll admit that maybe, just maybe KOC knows more about developing QB’s than I do.

So I am in wait-and-see mode, but I’d sure like some concrete proof - even if fleeting - that he can excel at this level. I’m certainly not trumpeting McCarthy in any conversations quite yet, but I'm also willing to wait 3-4 games into the season to at least be comfortable that he will be The Guy with time and patience.

I'm apprehensive about him but I would be about any QB playing his first NFL snaps. Him being on a more run-heavy team doesn't bother me. On the teams he has been on he has done what he was asked to do and his teams were successful as a result. It's not as if his teams were run heavy because of him, he was just on a team that was run heavy.

Here's every snap from the preseason game:



He definitely isn't a finished product but I like how he is coming along. His first pass could have been placed better but considering he was on the run it wasn't bad. The incompletion over the middle might have been something Jefferson would have been in place for. I liked where he put the ball for Addison when he got a little pressure up the middle. I like that he didn't panic there. On that run he was a lot faster than I thought he was too.

I really like that KOC is going to get to mold him. Even if he doesn't start out great as long as he does what he's told he can be coached. Even after another draft he's still the youngest starting QB in the league. He's got a lot of room for growth and I'm sure we'll see some of those growing pains along the way but overall I'm excited to have a young QB with obvious potential.

[VikingLord]

Here's every snap from the preseason game:

Thanks for posting that Cliff. I think there is a lot to look at there.

McCarthy's body of work is just too small right now to say anything definitive about his potential. In the posted game clips from the preseason games he's played in there are flashes, especially in the game against the Raiders before he got hurt last year. I thought McCarthy looked a little jacked up against the Texans. He seemed to read the field pretty well, but the accuracy left something to be desired. I'm not sure if that blind drop and fire play was designed the way it was executed. It seemed risky because McCarthy couldn't see who he was throwing it to. That was not a great play. The naked bootleg was also not a great play. The outside defender didn't bite on the play fake and the intended receiver also had a defender right on him. McCarthy ideally recognizes both things and just throws that one away rather than complete it for a likely loss (which is what happened). He made a better decision on the scramble, but also was in a better position to use his legs on that play. On the first play where he threw I felt he could have set his feet before making the throw. It was complete, but behind and high and the receiver had to make a great adjustment to haul it in. The out throw to Addison, OTOH, was a beauty. Ball in the air before Addison came out of his break and thrown to where only Addison could catch it. Granted, Addison had to leap for it but I'd rather see that than a ball the defender can get his hands on and break up the pass.