2024 NFL Draft

[CharVike]

I'm sorry I screwed my post up they dropped to 5. It looked like Speilman and Zim got out of sync. What hurt Zim was losing Teddy. I was never a fan of him but he could have been the guy to drive Zim's defense first philosophy to the SB. Zim was fond of him. Teddy for a kid did a good job. The first playoff game against the Hawks he did drive us down for the game winning FG but it was missed. That seemed like a common theme under Zim. But that's a defensive teams way. Your right once the money was put in Cousins account it left nothing to sign a better FA to cover a draft miss. There will be misses. It happens for every team. I just hope we can get a guy that can perform well within KOC's system. I'll admit I don't know who that is. I like Maye more than the rest of the big 6. Who knows the guy our team wants. My opinion has no impact.

They didn't just get out of sync out of nowhere though. Spielman directly went against what Zimmer wanted when he signed Cousins. Spielman more or less ended Zimmer's job as Vikings HC, it's no wonder things ended poorly.

I live in Kentucky and loved Teddy, so I'm probably bias, but I think there are some players that are in a situation that is perfect for them and I think Teddy would have been that guy as a Viking on Zimmer's team. Level-headed, straight arrow, efficient but not necessarily flashy, but smart. I think if Zimmer had Teddy on his rookie deal for 4 years and was able to use that extra money to build a defense they would have been a very, very good team for a while. Picture it: It's Teddy's 3rd year in 2017. Zimmer's defense is at it's peak and from a progression standpoint so should Teddy have been. Oh well, I'm just glad Teddy didn't lose his leg.

I have no idea either. I don't follow college ball at all which I'm almost grateful for this time of year. It seems like all of the people that do pay super close attention are constantly wrong anyway

I'm more ok with the team having a high-priced QB on a KOC coached team. QB is more important than a "complete" defense for his strategy. But the investment in Kirk didn't pan out and it was time to try something new.

What KOC has done with the coaching staff is impressive. He has his guys on offense and was smart enough to get a guy like Flores to take control of the defense after the initial blunder. Bringing in Josh McCown was also good. He will provide input towards the selection process and help Darnold overcome whatever is causing his issues and develop the pick. I do believe they will find a guy that fits there needs.

[VikingsVictorious]

Simms has always been the lowest on Maye so maybe a bit biased. Part of me says if Maye is there at 11 take a shot on him. Nothing in me says trade up for him.

Maye won't make 11. If the Commanders pass and go with Jayden that's when the wheeling will start. Us, Giants and Broncos. This Giant team getting involved really screws it up. Their pic is cherry. Jayden goes from day 3 pick to top 3 pick is crazy. He's been compared to Lamar who was the last pick of round 1. He was never considered an elite prospect. Most saw a longer term dev guy. They were right. It might takes us getting pick 4 first which is a much greater value than 11. That takes the Giants out of the game. The Giants have no interest in Nix or Penix at their pick. I wonder why. Do they not see how much better they are than Jones?

I won't stake my life on this, but the Giants aren't taking a QB. The will take one of the superstar WRs unless somebody makes them an offer they can't refuse.

[CharVike]

Maye won't make 11. If the Commanders pass and go with Jayden that's when the wheeling will start. Us, Giants and Broncos. This Giant team getting involved really screws it up. Their pic is cherry. Jayden goes from day 3 pick to top 3 pick is crazy. He's been compared to Lamar who was the last pick of round 1. He was never considered an elite prospect. Most saw a longer term dev guy. They were right. It might takes us getting pick 4 first which is a much greater value than 11. That takes the Giants out of the game. The Giants have no interest in Nix or Penix at their pick. I wonder why. Do they not see how much better they are than Jones?

I won't stake my life on this, but the Giants aren't taking a QB. The will take one of the superstar WRs unless somebody makes them an offer they can't refuse.

You could be right. I have seen them taking a WR. Maybe that's best for them since they just gave Jones a huge deal and don't provide much around him yet. I was thinking Denver might not want to move either. A guy they are eyeing which the world thinks is Nix will be at their spot. I seen a mock of them trading down to 15 and taking him. They could be a stick and pick. Perhaps we don't have to move either. If JJM is at the top for them he could be at 11. Maye could be at 11 if 2 & 3 say no. It is getting muddy. The only player cast in stone is Caleb. I thought perhaps Atl but I've seen them taking Verse because they could use pass rush help.

[VikingsVictorious]

I won't stake my life on this, but the Giants aren't taking a QB. The will take one of the superstar WRs unless somebody makes them an offer they can't refuse.

You could be right. I have seen them taking a WR. Maybe that's best for them since they just gave Jones a huge deal and don't provide much around him yet. I was thinking Denver might not want to move either. A guy they are eyeing which the world thinks is Nix will be at their spot. I seen a mock of them trading down to 15 and taking him. They could be a stick and pick. Perhaps we don't have to move either. If JJM is at the top for them he could be at 11. Maye could be at 11 if 2 & 3 say no. It is getting muddy. The only player cast in stone is Caleb. I thought perhaps Atl but I've seen them taking Verse because they could use pass rush help.

Exactly. It wouldn't take much for Maye or McCarthy to slide to 11. I keep hearing Dallas Turner not Verse to Atlanta. I believe a strong majority have Turner rated higher.

[CharVike]

You could be right. I have seen them taking a WR. Maybe that's best for them since they just gave Jones a huge deal and don't provide much around him yet. I was thinking Denver might not want to move either. A guy they are eyeing which the world thinks is Nix will be at their spot. I seen a mock of them trading down to 15 and taking him. They could be a stick and pick. Perhaps we don't have to move either. If JJM is at the top for them he could be at 11. Maye could be at 11 if 2 & 3 say no. It is getting muddy. The only player cast in stone is Caleb. I thought perhaps Atl but I've seen them taking Verse because they could use pass rush help.

Exactly. It wouldn't take much for Maye or McCarthy to slide to 11. I keep hearing Dallas Turner not Verse to Atlanta. I believe a strong majority have Turner rated higher.

It would be in there best interest to improve the existing team and they need pass rush help. They already made a decision at QB for a couple season push. That is the great thing about the NFC. There isn't a team that has taken over. A few that are always in the playoffs but they can get beat just based on $hit happens. It take don't much.

[VikingsVictorious]

I was able to get the following mock draft by just trading down a few spots from 11 and repeating 4 times. Would anybody complain if this is what we end up with? I could have taken Nix, but this time for a change went with Penix.

23.
Byron Murphy II
DT Texas
36.
Michael Penix Jr.
QB Washington
40.
NFL-team-logo
Darius Robinson
EDGE Missouri
46.
Cooper Beebe
OG Kansas State
84.
Payton Wilson
LB NC State
trade-icon
129.
Dylan Laube
RB New Hampshire
157.
Theo Johnson
TE Penn State
167.
Daequan Hardy
CB Penn State
177.
Khristian Boyd
DT Nothern Iowa
230.
Mark Perry
S TCU
232.
Sundiata Anderson
EDGE Grambling State
2025 JAX 2nd

[Alaskan]

Thankfully its in the past and we have a GM that has a different philosophy on how to build a team, the draft is just 1 tool in team building so when people say we are mortgaging our future if we use all our first and second round picks for 2 years to get “our guy” at QB in the draft, I just cannot get on that bandwagon.

Except that isn't an accurate description of KAM. KAM extended Cousins for 2 years after he became GM while not investing a high pick at QB, and then by all accounts attempted to do the exact same thing this offseason. The only reason Cousins is not still the Vikings QB heading into the 2024 season is because the Falcons were even dumber than the Vikings IMHO and gave a 36 year old QB coming off a serious injury a 4 year guaranteed contract instead of a 2 year deal.

Also, what you're suggesting is smart is more accurately termed desperate in my view.

Sure, mortgaging the future to get "your guy" at QB might make sense provided you actually get that particular guy. But as with your prior description of KAM, that isn't exactly what the Vikings would be doing this year even if they did do what you suggest, because even if they do what you suggest, the highest they could move up is probably to the 3rd pick, and by almost all accounts 2 of the top QB prospects in this year's class will be off the board by that point. So KAM will be mortgaging the future not to get his pick of the QB class, but to get his pick of what is left of that class. And that is a best-case scenario because by most accounts he'd have to give up so much to move into the top 3 that even if he did end up picking the miracle wonder boy QB of this year's class, the cost to the depth and talent of the rest of the team over the next several drafts would be so severe that the team likely would remain stuck in the mud on net.

If KAM is who you think he is, he should literally give the Bears whatever it takes to move up to the 1st pick and take Caleb Williams. Otherwise, anything else he does at QB in this draft short of staying put at 11 and taking what Fate gives him is objectively a half-measure at best borne of desperation and demonstrates not a wily ability to manipulate a draft but the same wanton tendency Rick Spielman and so many other pro GMs have to chase after the nearest, loudest car as it goes by.

What would you propose doing? Staying put at 11? Ok. I have no problem with it if they get the guy they want. All I hear you doing is running down pretty much everything. I said I didn’t like the cousins extension and speculated as to why he did it. Don’t ageee, I dont care. If Caleb is the guy go get him. That isn’t up to me. If it was me and I liked him I would give up what ever it took. You act like all these first and second rounders are the end all be all and without them we are destined to be cellar dwellers. Which I dont agree with. Period. I have laid out my case. Like it or don’t like it. I don’t really care. I am not gonna go back and forth and argue about who’s right and who’s wrong because neither one of us actually know who is or isn’t gonna turn out to be the next GOAT.

[CharVike]

I was able to get the following mock draft by just trading down a few spots from 11 and repeating 4 times. Would anybody complain if this is what we end up with? I could have taken Nix, but this time for a change went with Penix.

23.
Byron Murphy II
DT Texas
36.
Michael Penix Jr.
QB Washington
40.
NFL-team-logo
Darius Robinson
EDGE Missouri
46.
Cooper Beebe
OG Kansas State
84.
Payton Wilson
LB NC State
trade-icon
129.
Dylan Laube
RB New Hampshire
157.
Theo Johnson
TE Penn State
167.
Daequan Hardy
CB Penn State
177.
Khristian Boyd
DT Nothern Iowa
230.
Mark Perry
S TCU
232.
Sundiata Anderson
EDGE Grambling State
2025 JAX 2nd

Your missing that pass rusher that you always select. I'm no fan of Penix. Too many red flags. He didn't show the ability to escape rushers, by time and find a guy. He got great protection. That's not good and a big flag. Nix showed that but JJM did also at a much quicker pace to my eye. Based on Penix or any tier 2 guy I'd just rather go with Pratt a round later. These tier 2 guys like Kyle Trask was are sitting all around the NFL. I'd rather swing for a tier 1 guy and there are only 2 of those IMO. The top 1 is already selected. G Beebe is a nice player. So are Murphy and Robinson. I found the guy Chop Robinson.

[VikingsVictorious]

I was able to get the following mock draft by just trading down a few spots from 11 and repeating 4 times. Would anybody complain if this is what we end up with? I could have taken Nix, but this time for a change went with Penix.

23.
Byron Murphy II
DT Texas
36.
Michael Penix Jr.
QB Washington
40.
NFL-team-logo
Darius Robinson
EDGE Missouri
46.
Cooper Beebe
OG Kansas State
84.
Payton Wilson
LB NC State
trade-icon
129.
Dylan Laube
RB New Hampshire
157.
Theo Johnson
TE Penn State
167.
Daequan Hardy
CB Penn State
177.
Khristian Boyd
DT Nothern Iowa
230.
Mark Perry
S TCU
232.
Sundiata Anderson
EDGE Grambling State
2025 JAX 2nd

Your missing that pass rusher that you always select. I'm no fan of Penix. Too many red flags. He didn't show the ability to escape rushers, by time and find a guy. He got great protection. That's not good and a big flag. Nix showed that but JJM did also at a much quicker pace to my eye. Based on Penix or any tier 2 guy I'd just rather go with Pratt a round later. These tier 2 guys like Kyle Trask was are sitting all around the NFL. I'd rather swing for a tier 1 guy and there are only 2 of those IMO. The top 1 is already selected. G Beebe is a nice player. So are Murphy and Robinson. I found the guy Chop Robinson.

I got two quite talented pass rushers in Murphy and Robinson. I got one of my favorite QBs in Penix I probably would really take Nix. I also added a 2nd round pick to next years draft.

[CharVike]

Here is an interesting stat for a QB sack rate. I'm not even sure if it has much value and to determine the root cause would take many months of watching every pass attempt and understanding the call ect.... In the pros Burrow has a high sack rate. I've read many times his OL sucks and that is probably true. But it could also indicate that he isn't getting rid of the ball fast enough. Or his WR aren't getting open quick enough or he can't throw them open. Jared Goff over the last 2 seasons is 2 and 3 in best sack rate. Mahomes was ranked 1 and 2. That's good company for Goff. Sam Howell sucked and was one of the reasons he was dumped and a 5th rounder. Below are the sack rate % for the top QBs. Penix is great. I know his OL is very good but it also has been reported that he can't avoid the rush. Bo Nix was the best which I wouldn't have expected. Caleb is the worse and he's the No 1 pick. Here it is.
Caleb Williams - 7.7%
Drake Maye - 5.7%
Jayden Daniels - 5.1%
Bo Nix - 1.2%
JJ McCarthy - 5.1%
Michael Penix - 2.1%
Nix and Penix are off the charts good while Caleb sucks in comparison. Jayden for having blazing speed and the moves is JJM. Strange and the complete opposite of what I expected. Maybe Caleb will drop to 11. He even has some mental things like picking the only teams he would play for. Of course his agent has put the gag order on him. When his mouth opens anything can come out.
I'm sticking with Maye just based on size, speed and arm strength.
https://sports.yahoo.com/pressure-sack- ... 29054.html

[VikingsVictorious]

Here is an interesting stat for a QB sack rate. I'm not even sure if it has much value and to determine the root cause would take many months of watching every pass attempt and understanding the call ect.... In the pros Burrow has a high sack rate. I've read many times his OL sucks and that is probably true. But it could also indicate that he isn't getting rid of the ball fast enough. Or his WR aren't getting open quick enough or he can't throw them open. Jared Goff over the last 2 seasons is 2 and 3 in best sack rate. Mahomes was ranked 1 and 2. That's good company for Goff. Sam Howell sucked and was one of the reasons he was dumped and a 5th rounder. Below are the sack rate % for the top QBs. Penix is great. I know his OL is very good but it also has been reported that he can't avoid the rush. Bo Nix was the best which I wouldn't have expected. Caleb is the worse and he's the No 1 pick. Here it is.
Caleb Williams - 7.7%
Drake Maye - 5.7%
Jayden Daniels - 5.1%
Bo Nix - 1.2%
JJ McCarthy - 5.1%
Michael Penix - 2.1%
Nix and Penix are off the charts good while Caleb sucks in comparison. Jayden for having blazing speed and the moves is JJM. Strange and the complete opposite of what I expected. Maybe Caleb will drop to 11. He even has some mental things like picking the only teams he would play for. Of course his agent has put the gag order on him. When his mouth opens anything can come out.
I'm sticking with Maye just based on size, speed and arm strength.
https://sports.yahoo.com/pressure-sack- ... 29054.html

Maye is 6th on my board. Perhaps that helps people understand why I'm so against moving up. 6 QBs with almost no separation IMO.

[Tommy TarkenKapp]

.

[CharVike]

Here is an interesting stat for a QB sack rate. I'm not even sure if it has much value and to determine the root cause would take many months of watching every pass attempt and understanding the call ect.... In the pros Burrow has a high sack rate. I've read many times his OL sucks and that is probably true. But it could also indicate that he isn't getting rid of the ball fast enough. Or his WR aren't getting open quick enough or he can't throw them open. Jared Goff over the last 2 seasons is 2 and 3 in best sack rate. Mahomes was ranked 1 and 2. That's good company for Goff. Sam Howell sucked and was one of the reasons he was dumped and a 5th rounder. Below are the sack rate % for the top QBs. Penix is great. I know his OL is very good but it also has been reported that he can't avoid the rush. Bo Nix was the best which I wouldn't have expected. Caleb is the worse and he's the No 1 pick. Here it is.
Caleb Williams - 7.7%
Drake Maye - 5.7%
Jayden Daniels - 5.1%
Bo Nix - 1.2%
JJ McCarthy - 5.1%
Michael Penix - 2.1%
Nix and Penix are off the charts good while Caleb sucks in comparison. Jayden for having blazing speed and the moves is JJM. Strange and the complete opposite of what I expected. Maybe Caleb will drop to 11. He even has some mental things like picking the only teams he would play for. Of course his agent has put the gag order on him. When his mouth opens anything can come out.
I'm sticking with Maye just based on size, speed and arm strength.
https://sports.yahoo.com/pressure-sack- ... 29054.html

Maye is 6th on my board. Perhaps that helps people understand why I'm so against moving up. 6 QBs with almost no separation IMO.

We are just fans talking and we all have a board. The key is finding the right one that fits your scheme and that comes down to the team. The only thing that pisses me off about the position we are in is letting a good QB go with nothing behind him. You can't run it much worse than that. That's a stupid GM. The Packers got a guy in and then when he was ready dealt the stud. Just the fact that you have a good QB puts you in front of the majority of teams in our conference. Watching that $hit show we put on last year wasn't even worth wasting time for me. Now we will get some kid. Your looking at a time frame just for development. That can be anything. That applies to all these kids. But there is separation based on certain things that are there in front of us. For example how long was the guys career. For Penix it was 6 seasons. That's a joke he should dominate. Even Nix 5 seasons. Then I hate these one year wonders like Jayden. Did everything fall in place season 5? Or did the team he play for recognize what he does best and then get the players around him to help him do what he does best. Along with a scheme fit. I don't see how he fits with the majority of teams. But I do see him going early because he is a draw and you can throw him in there day 1 and let him play his game. I have no clue who will be good or great or a bust. If there is one guy in this class that can play at a Cousins level stat wise it will be a shock for me. I know there isn't 6 of them. That's a guarantee.

[Tommy TarkenKapp]

.

[VikingsVictorious]

Simms has always been the lowest on Maye so maybe a bit biased. Part of me says if Maye is there at 11 take a shot on him. Nothing in me says trade up for him.

I've learned to take a lot of the talking heads opinions with a grain of salt. Their prognostications are about as accurate as an avid fan might have. And I seem to recall Simms really liking Kellen Mond a whole bunch. How'd he turn out?

Simms liked Mond. He had him at his QB4. He also liked a couple other bums. Looking at his body of work he is better than everybody else. He had Jackson over Darnold IIRC same draft. He loved Mahomes and Allen. Several other examples of him being better than the rest. I give his evaluation more weight than any other talking heads evaluation.