Kevin O'Connell will be next Vikings coach

[J. Kapp 11]

The problem with extending him after the season if he does well is there is nothing to extend. He's a 100% free agent if I understand things correctly. During or before the season Cousins gains protection against injury with an extension.

Cousins and his people are smart. They know what they are doing. They won't sit there and play for nothing or play in a place they have no interest in. I'm sure Cousins isn't out blowing every nickel he ever made. I also think Cousins likes Minny. It's probably good for his family. If the new GM decides to keep him he will do what works best for all involved. One thing I thought about with Kubiak now in Denver maybe we can trade with them. Not Cousins but Mond. Speialman said Kubiak was instrumental in that draft pick. Getting a 2nd would be great and give us the opportunity to pick a body to help us. Getting a 2nd shouldn't be out of the question. Kube has worked with him for a year. If he likes him and with very few QBs available that works great for Denver. On our team he won't play with Cousins under contract. That's how you start building the roster.

Who in their right mind would give a second-round draft choice for a third-round quarterback who has taken 3 snaps and looked lost while taking them?

I mean, I’d love it. But come on.

[J. Kapp 11]

To quote Rafiki... *It is time"!
The Vikings have been loyal to their players for so long. The fans are loyal to a fault.
I completely agree with us having to hold back the emotions and let these guys go. Thielen is the toughest to lose as a fan for me, but resigning him should not be difficult. Smith is still good, but not sure that he is the same player. Kendricks has been great and I think we still keep. Barr is " out", Hunter probably won't be a good fit in a new 3-4 scheme. Btw, this draft class is a great draft to retool the defense.
Basically, time to let them go.

I’m glad somebody sees the writing on the wall.

I love Hunter. But he’s played 8 out of the last 33 games, and he’s going to count $26 million against the cap. That’s top-15 in the league! He’s young though, and would likely be worth a 1st in return. Who has need? Well, for one, Baltimore. They’re a team that can win, and they have no pass rush. Would I take their pick at 14 for Hunter and the cap relief we’d get? Absolutely. “But wait,” some say. “We won’t have a pass rush without him.” Well guess what? We’ve been without him for 25 of the last 33 games. What changes?

And as you said, this year’s class is loaded with defensive players, particularly edge rushers. What’s better? Hunter at $26 million, or Aidan Hutchinson on a rookie deal?

Smith is another example. He’s one of my favorite Vikings. And he’s still good. But at 33, how long will he be? Maybe the prudent move is the Belichick Principle … trade a great player just before he starts to decline.

I think we Vikings fans have to decide … do we want to hang on to our favorites? Or do we want to win?

[CharVike]

Cousins and his people are smart. They know what they are doing. They won't sit there and play for nothing or play in a place they have no interest in. I'm sure Cousins isn't out blowing every nickel he ever made. I also think Cousins likes Minny. It's probably good for his family. If the new GM decides to keep him he will do what works best for all involved. One thing I thought about with Kubiak now in Denver maybe we can trade with them. Not Cousins but Mond. Speialman said Kubiak was instrumental in that draft pick. Getting a 2nd would be great and give us the opportunity to pick a body to help us. Getting a 2nd shouldn't be out of the question. Kube has worked with him for a year. If he likes him and with very few QBs available that works great for Denver. On our team he won't play with Cousins under contract. That's how you start building the roster.

Who in their right mind would give a second-round draft choice for a third-round quarterback who has taken 3 snaps and looked lost while taking them?

I mean, I’d love it. But come on.

It has nothing to do with those snaps. The guy was a very high 3rd rounder. It's not like a 5th rounder and I'm saying 2nd. Get a 3rd then. Kube has worked with the guy and that's what you are missing. If he thinks highly of him we could get a pick. But QBs are hard to find and Denver has nothing. The draft has nothing. Perhaps I'm way off but it's not like I'm saying get a top 10 pick for the stiff. Obviously none of this will happen. It was just a thought.

[J. Kapp 11]

Who in their right mind would give a second-round draft choice for a third-round quarterback who has taken 3 snaps and looked lost while taking them?

I mean, I’d love it. But come on.

It has nothing to do with those snaps. The guy was a very high 3rd rounder. It's not like a 5th rounder and I'm saying 2nd. Get a 3rd then. Kube has worked with the guy and that's what you are missing. If he thinks highly of him we could get a pick. But QBs are hard to find and Denver has nothing. The draft has nothing. Perhaps I'm way off but it's not like I'm saying get a top 10 pick for the stiff. Obviously none of this will happen. It was just a thought.

I’m not missing anything.

Nobody is going to give a second for Kellen Mond.

And has Kubiak worked with the guy? Nobody knew a thing about Mond all through the season. When he got in the game, he looked the same as he did in preseason — lost. Did anyone really work with Mond? Nobody knows. It could just as easily be that Kubiak worked with him and wants nothing to do with him.

[StumpHunter]

I have to agree with Charvike here. Unless he is traded, that 45 million will 100% count against the Vikings cap and will not play any part in the decision to extend Cousins. There are multiple ways to push cap hits down the road without an extension, including adding void years to Cousins' contract, so an extension to save cap is not necessary. In fact, an extension of Cousins actually limits what the Vikings can do this year more, since we will have less money next year to push cap hits too.

Cousins will be extended if KAM feels he is worth having one of the worst cap situations in the NFL for the next 2-3 years, not to save cap. With Cousins being very unsuccessful so far in his time in MN under the previous regime, it makes more sense to me to not extend him, creating this exact same situation in 2024, and instead wait and see how he does under the current coach and extend him after the season if he does well.

Yes, there are other ways. But if you believe Kirk Cousins will do anything that does not put the most guaranteed money in his pocket, then please share some of what you’re smoking.

Totally agree, and I wasn't suggesting a situation where Cousins would agree to a pay cut.

The Vikings are currently 15 million over the cap, have 4 starters from their defense hitting free agency, and no realistic cut options that save significant cap.

They need to create at least 30 million in cap space to get back to relevancy next season.

They can create close to 30 million by converting Kendrick's, Thielen's and Cook's salary's to signing bonus alone, without extending anyone.

The Vikings could add void year's to Kirk's current deal and save 30 million that way, without extending anyone.

They can do a combination of converting salary to signing bonus of the players mentioned above, and sign players to heavily back loaded contracts.

All of those moves require us to essentially borrow from future seasons, but none of them have an addition 40 million guaranteed tacked on to them like a Cousins extension would.

Meanwhile, I am telling you right now Cousins will not play this season at a $45 million cap hit. That’s not anywhere near a hot take. You probably share that view. My personal preference would be to trade him and draft & develop his replacement, but nobody cares what I want. That being said, Kwesi can’t be stupid enough to delay the desperately needed rebuild/reset/whatever you want to call it by carrying a $45 million cap hit for a lame duck quarterback that he’ll lose to free agency and get nothing in return. If KAM and KOC want Cousins, they’ll extend him. If not, they’ll get what they can in a trade. There are at least 8 teams for which Kirk Cousins would represent an upgrade. There’s a market for him.

As I mentioned above, of all the ways to save cap this year, a Cousins extension makes the least sense. A trade makes the most sense, followed by adding a void year or doing nothing. An extension hurts our ability to sign free agents this year, next year and the year after and does not help our cap situation.

We can eat that 45 million and just move on. It isn't as necessary to break that hit up as some believe.

[StumpHunter]

I have to agree with Charvike here. Unless he is traded, that 45 million will 100% count against the Vikings cap and will not play any part in the decision to extend Cousins. There are multiple ways to push cap hits down the road without an extension, including adding void years to Cousins' contract, so an extension to save cap is not necessary. In fact, an extension of Cousins actually limits what the Vikings can do this year more, since we will have less money next year to push cap hits too.

Cousins will be extended if KAM feels he is worth having one of the worst cap situations in the NFL for the next 2-3 years, not to save cap. With Cousins being very unsuccessful so far in his time in MN under the previous regime, it makes more sense to me to not extend him, creating this exact same situation in 2024, and instead wait and see how he does under the current coach and extend him after the season if he does well.

The problem with extending him after the season if he does well is there is nothing to extend. He's a 100% free agent if I understand things correctly.

This isn't true. He is under contract until the start of the new league year, and the Vikings can work on an extension prior to that.

During or before the season Cousins gains protection against injury with an extension.

For most players this is a concern, but with Cousins he doesn't seem to care about that. He assumes he will stay healthy and bets on himself staying healthy to maximize his earnings. Good for him, bad for our cap.

[J. Kapp 11]

Yes, there are other ways. But if you believe Kirk Cousins will do anything that does not put the most guaranteed money in his pocket, then please share some of what you’re smoking.

Totally agree, and I wasn't suggesting a situation where Cousins would agree to a pay cut.

The Vikings are currently 15 million over the cap, have 4 starters from their defense hitting free agency, and no realistic cut options that save significant cap.

They need to create at least 30 million in cap space to get back to relevancy next season.

They can create close to 30 million by converting Kendrick's, Thielen's and Cook's salary's to signing bonus alone, without extending anyone.

The Vikings could add void year's to Kirk's current deal and save 30 million that way, without extending anyone.

They can do a combination of converting salary to signing bonus of the players mentioned above, and sign players to heavily back loaded contracts.

All of those moves require us to essentially borrow from future seasons, but none of them have an addition 40 million guaranteed tacked on to them like a Cousins extension would.

Meanwhile, I am telling you right now Cousins will not play this season at a $45 million cap hit. That’s not anywhere near a hot take. You probably share that view. My personal preference would be to trade him and draft & develop his replacement, but nobody cares what I want. That being said, Kwesi can’t be stupid enough to delay the desperately needed rebuild/reset/whatever you want to call it by carrying a $45 million cap hit for a lame duck quarterback that he’ll lose to free agency and get nothing in return. If KAM and KOC want Cousins, they’ll extend him. If not, they’ll get what they can in a trade. There are at least 8 teams for which Kirk Cousins would represent an upgrade. There’s a market for him.

As I mentioned above, of all the ways to save cap this year, a Cousins extension makes the least sense. A trade makes the most sense, followed by adding a void year or doing nothing. An extension hurts our ability to sign free agents this year, next year and the year after and does not help our cap situation.

We can eat that 45 million and just move on. It isn't as necessary to break that hit up as some believe.

Help me out here. I’m not as confident in my knowledge in voidable years. It’s a pretty new trend. I’m going to walk through a hypothetical scenario, and you tell me if I’m on the right track.

Let’s say the Vikings “extend” Cousins for 2 years past 2022, so through 2024. But the last two years are voidable. This is similar to what Brady did with Tampa Bay.

The Vikings are on the hook for $35 million more to Cousins. So we start there. Let’s say Cousins agrees to a $14 million salary for 2022, with the other $21 million being converted to bonus. Kirk gets the money right away, while the Vikings spread the cap cost over the 3 years, or $7 million per year. Whatever salary he agrees to for 2023 thru 2025 is irrelevant, as those years are voidable.

That means Cousins gets a check for $21 million the moment he signs. Good deal for Cousins. He also gets game checks during the season totaling his $14 million salary.

The Vikings’ 2022 cap hit drops from $45 million to $31 million — his $14 million salary + the $10 million in prorated bonus from his previous extension + the $7 million prorated bonus from his new deal.

In years 2 and 3, assuming they let Cousins walk, their dead cap is only $7 million per year. Or if they want to keep him, they could void the contract and start over.

Obviously this is only one way they could do it. They could break it up any that’s agreeable to both sides.

Does that sound right? Am I understanding this correctly?

If so, then Cousins would be a fool not to accept. He could set his own destiny. He likes short deals where he bets on himself. This would be the ultimate such deal.

[StumpHunter]

Totally agree, and I wasn't suggesting a situation where Cousins would agree to a pay cut.

The Vikings are currently 15 million over the cap, have 4 starters from their defense hitting free agency, and no realistic cut options that save significant cap.

They need to create at least 30 million in cap space to get back to relevancy next season.

They can create close to 30 million by converting Kendrick's, Thielen's and Cook's salary's to signing bonus alone, without extending anyone.

The Vikings could add void year's to Kirk's current deal and save 30 million that way, without extending anyone.

They can do a combination of converting salary to signing bonus of the players mentioned above, and sign players to heavily back loaded contracts.

All of those moves require us to essentially borrow from future seasons, but none of them have an addition 40 million guaranteed tacked on to them like a Cousins extension would.


As I mentioned above, of all the ways to save cap this year, a Cousins extension makes the least sense. A trade makes the most sense, followed by adding a void year or doing nothing. An extension hurts our ability to sign free agents this year, next year and the year after and does not help our cap situation.

We can eat that 45 million and just move on. It isn't as necessary to break that hit up as some believe.

Help me out here. I’m not as confident in my knowledge in voidable years. It’s a pretty new trend. I’m going to walk through a hypothetical scenario, and you tell me if I’m on the right track.

Let’s say the Vikings “extend” Cousins for 2 years past 2022, so through 2024. But the last two years are voidable. This is similar to what Brady did with Tampa Bay.

The Vikings are on the hook for $35 million more to Cousins. So we start there. Let’s say Cousins agrees to a $14 million salary for 2022, with the other $21 million being converted to bonus. Kirk gets the money right away, while the Vikings spread the cap cost over the 3 years, or $7 million per year. Whatever salary he agrees to for 2023 thru 2025 is irrelevant, as those years are voidable.

That means Cousins gets a check for $21 million the moment he signs. Good deal for Cousins. He also gets game checks during the season totaling his $14 million salary.

The Vikings’ 2022 cap hit drops from $45 million to $31 million — his $14 million salary + the $10 million in prorated bonus from his previous extension + the $7 million prorated bonus from his new deal.

In years 2 and 3, assuming they let Cousins walk, their dead cap is only $7 million per year. Or if they want to keep him, they could void the contract and start over.

Obviously this is only one way they could do it. They could break it up any that’s agreeable to both sides.

Does that sound right? Am I understanding this correctly?

If so, then Cousins would be a fool not to accept. He could set his own destiny. He likes short deals where he bets on himself. This would be the ultimate such deal.

With the exception of him walking after 2022 and us still getting to pay out the void years in 2023 and 2024 (it would all come do in 2023, which doesn't actually matter since we can just do the same thing with another player), that is all correct.

Unlike when players convert salary to signing bonus spread out over existing years, the player has to agree to adding void years to his deal. They all do agree though, because of what you mentioned. They get the money right away instead of having to wait until the games are played, and it also helps improve the team around them.

[J. Kapp 11]

Help me out here. I’m not as confident in my knowledge in voidable years. It’s a pretty new trend. I’m going to walk through a hypothetical scenario, and you tell me if I’m on the right track.

Let’s say the Vikings “extend” Cousins for 2 years past 2022, so through 2024. But the last two years are voidable. This is similar to what Brady did with Tampa Bay.

The Vikings are on the hook for $35 million more to Cousins. So we start there. Let’s say Cousins agrees to a $14 million salary for 2022, with the other $21 million being converted to bonus. Kirk gets the money right away, while the Vikings spread the cap cost over the 3 years, or $7 million per year. Whatever salary he agrees to for 2023 thru 2025 is irrelevant, as those years are voidable.

That means Cousins gets a check for $21 million the moment he signs. Good deal for Cousins. He also gets game checks during the season totaling his $14 million salary.

The Vikings’ 2022 cap hit drops from $45 million to $31 million — his $14 million salary + the $10 million in prorated bonus from his previous extension + the $7 million prorated bonus from his new deal.

In years 2 and 3, assuming they let Cousins walk, their dead cap is only $7 million per year. Or if they want to keep him, they could void the contract and start over.

Obviously this is only one way they could do it. They could break it up any that’s agreeable to both sides.

Does that sound right? Am I understanding this correctly?

If so, then Cousins would be a fool not to accept. He could set his own destiny. He likes short deals where he bets on himself. This would be the ultimate such deal.

With the exception of him walking after 2022 and us still getting to pay out the void years in 2023 and 2024 (it would all come do in 2023, which doesn't actually matter since we can just do the same thing with another player), that is all correct.

Unlike when players convert salary to signing bonus spread out over existing years, the player has to agree to adding void years to his deal. They all do agree though, because of what you mentioned. They get the money right away instead of having to wait until the games are played, and it also helps improve the team around them.

Thanks. I learned something today.

[CharVike]

That was a good write up. The Bucs used the void on other players after Brady. Teams are starting to use it. Contracts will never hold anything up. Julio Jones is a recent example.That's how old man Ryan makes nothing CAP wise. Pay at the end. Basically a 4 year credit card. I'm sure there is other fuzzy cap magic.

[StumpHunter]

That was a good write up. The Bucs used the void on other players after Brady. Teams are starting to use it. Contracts will never hold anything up. Julio Jones is a recent example.That's how old man Ryan makes nothing CAP wise. Pay at the end. Basically a 4 year credit card. I'm sure there is other fuzzy cap magic. Once a team figures it out they will all be using it. Saints signed some bum do nothing or dynamic QB for 140 million but it's all voided. Void and contract don't really go together. Complete opposites.

It really isn't as mystical as you make it out to be. The cap exists, and it has a significant impact on the players that can be signed or extended. The Saints approach works if you have an aging QB on the verge of retirement and need to win now, but they are paying a heavy price for it. Just last year they were unable to sign arguably their best young player on defense and he went on to help the Bengals go to the SB. Trey Hendrickson would have been the cornerstone of their defense for years, and he ended up going to the Bengals for a little over half the cost a great edge rusher typically gets in free agency. Other players like Sanders and Cook would have been a huge help in an offense that was pretty devoid of talent at the receiving position.

Void years, converting salary to signing bonus and ballooning contracts should only be used if you believe you have a SB ready roster and want to keep guys around while adding missing pieces in free agency. If you don't have that, it is better to keep your young budding stars around and let the aging vets leave rather than try to hold onto something that hasn't come close to working out since 2017.

Spielman kind of made it impossible for the Vikings not to borrow cap from future years with void years or other means, but hopefully KAM limits those moves so the Vikings can get back to a spot where we can start adding significant pieces to the roster instead of just adding 2nd tier free agents that barely keep the team at .500.

[VikingsVictorious]

Cousins and his people are smart. They know what they are doing. They won't sit there and play for nothing or play in a place they have no interest in. I'm sure Cousins isn't out blowing every nickel he ever made. I also think Cousins likes Minny. It's probably good for his family. If the new GM decides to keep him he will do what works best for all involved. One thing I thought about with Kubiak now in Denver maybe we can trade with them. Not Cousins but Mond. Speialman said Kubiak was instrumental in that draft pick. Getting a 2nd would be great and give us the opportunity to pick a body to help us. Getting a 2nd shouldn't be out of the question. Kube has worked with him for a year. If he likes him and with very few QBs available that works great for Denver. On our team he won't play with Cousins under contract. That's how you start building the roster.

Who in their right mind would give a second-round draft choice for a third-round quarterback who has taken 3 snaps and looked lost while taking them?

I mean, I’d love it. But come on.

I'm pretty sure you're right about that.

[CharVike]

That was a good write up. The Bucs used the void on other players after Brady. Teams are starting to use it. Contracts will never hold anything up. Julio Jones is a recent example.That's how old man Ryan makes nothing CAP wise. Pay at the end. Basically a 4 year credit card. I'm sure there is other fuzzy cap magic. Once a team figures it out they will all be using it. Saints signed some bum do nothing or dynamic QB for 140 million but it's all voided. Void and contract don't really go together. Complete opposites.

It really isn't as mystical as you make it out to be. The cap exists, and it has a significant impact on the players that can be signed or extended. The Saints approach works if you have an aging QB on the verge of retirement and need to win now, but they are paying a heavy price for it. Just last year they were unable to sign arguably their best young player on defense and he went on to help the Bengals go to the SB. Trey Hendrickson would have been the cornerstone of their defense for years, and he ended up going to the Bengals for a little over half the cost a great edge rusher typically gets in free agency. Other players like Sanders and Cook would have been a huge help in an offense that was pretty devoid of talent at the receiving position.

Void years, converting salary to signing bonus and ballooning contracts should only be used if you believe you have a SB ready roster and want to keep guys around while adding missing pieces in free agency. If you don't have that, it is better to keep your young budding stars around and let the aging vets leave rather than try to hold onto something that hasn't come close to working out since 2017.

Spielman kind of made it impossible for the Vikings not to borrow cap from future years with void years or other means, but hopefully KAM limits those moves so the Vikings can get back to a spot where we can start adding significant pieces to the roster instead of just adding 2nd tier free agents that barely keep the team at .500.

I agree with what your post. I didn't even know voidable years existed. I never really paid much attention to the CAP. I enjoy the player side much more and that goes back when few evaluated players pre draft. PFW had great scout books every year. They would rank the players and were very good at it. Draft is were it's done. If you continually fail in the draft a team will fall off quickly. Bad drafting has put us in a big hole. These vets we gave big money to was also a mistake. Plus no easy out on the contracts. That's history and they did try to win but it didn't work. KAM is the key guy now. He needs the right people in place and a plan that they can follow. He don't need to know how to evaluate players but he better get the people in place who can handle that.

[Maelstrom88]

Pretty excited to have an offensive HC again. I think Cousins will thrive and get an extension honestly.

[StpViking]

I have to confess seeing the 2022 Super Bowl made me depressed.

The Rams Sold the farm put their chips on Matthew Stafford being the missing piece to finally winning the Super Bowl. BINGO!
The Vikings Sold the farm and put their chip on Kirk Cousins being the missing piece to finally winning the Super Bowl. NOT BINGO!

Through free agency and draft, the 2021 Rams on paper looked like a Super Bowl or bust team. Delivered!
Through free agency and draft, the 2021 Vikings on paper looked like a Super Bowl or bust team. Yeah you get it!

I guess some franchises get it and some don't.