Let's play "Reckless Speculation — Kirk Cousins Edition"

[VikingsVictorious]

Stafford is a Super Bowl QB. Cousins is better.

No, he’s not. Your own words — Super Bowl quarterback.

Are you honestly going to tell me that if Kirk Cousins were QB of the Los Angeles Rams, they’d still be in the Super Bowl? I mean, are you his cousin or something?

(Get it?)

Stafford is nothing special at all. Cousins is definitely better and if he were QB of the Rams yes they would be in the Super Bowl and have an even better chance to win. No I'm in no way related to Cousins, Stafford, Brady or any NFL QB.

[VikingsVictorious]

Stafford is a Super Bowl QB. Cousins is better.

Based on what?

Being better.
And this

Hey, Mary Kay: Do you honestly think the Browns could seriously try to acquire Kirk Cousins? — Kristopher Jacoby, Malvern, Ohio

Hey, Kristopher: I think Kirk Cousins would be worth exploring if he becomes available in a trade. In the past three seasons in Minnesota, he’s finished fourth, eighth and second in passer rating. In 2019, with Kevin Stefanski as his offensive coordinator and playcaller, he finished No. 2 in the NFL with a 107.4 rating, with 26 touchdowns and only six interceptions. This season, despite a losing record, he finished fourth with a 103.1 rating, with 33 touchdown passes and seven interceptions. The Browns could do a lot worse than a QB who consistently finishes in the top 10 and doesn’t throw many picks. With former Browns Vice President of Football Operations Kwesi Adofo-Mensah now the Vikings’ GM, the working relationship is there to do a deal if both sides are interested. The Vikings might want to rebuild or retool under a new head coach, and the Browns are ready to win now.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

Stafford is a Super Bowl QB. Cousins is better.

No, he’s not. Your own words — Super Bowl quarterback.

Are you honestly going to tell me that if Kirk Cousins were QB of the Los Angeles Rams, they’d still be in the Super Bowl? I mean, are you his cousin or something?

(Get it?)

Yeah, but that's what I mean when I said "that you're a loser until you're not". If Stafford was still a Lion, and the Rams had gone to the Super Bowl with another QB, wouldn't it be just as easy to ask "Are you honestly going to tell me that if Matt Stafford were the QB of the Rams, they'd still be in the Super Bowl?" Most everyone had him labeled as just as much of a loser, if not more, than Cousins...until now. Lucky for the Rams, they looked beyond his win-loss record in Detroit. I think it would do the Vikings well to look beyond Cousins win-loss record here too.

[VikingsVictorious]

No, he’s not. Your own words — Super Bowl quarterback.

Are you honestly going to tell me that if Kirk Cousins were QB of the Los Angeles Rams, they’d still be in the Super Bowl? I mean, are you his cousin or something?

(Get it?)

Yeah, but that's what I mean when I said "that you're a loser until you're not". If Stafford was still a Lion, and the Rams had gone to the Super Bowl with another QB, wouldn't it be just as easy to ask "Are you honestly going to tell me that if Matt Stafford were the QB of the Rams, they'd still be in the Super Bowl?" Most everyone had him labeled as just as much of a loser, if not more, than Cousins...until now. Lucky for the Rams, they looked beyond his win-loss record in Detroit. I think it would do the Vikings well to look beyond Cousins win-loss record here too.

Very Astutely Stated.

[VikingLord]

Based on what?

Being better.
And this

Hey, Mary Kay: Do you honestly think the Browns could seriously try to acquire Kirk Cousins? — Kristopher Jacoby, Malvern, Ohio

Hey, Kristopher: I think Kirk Cousins would be worth exploring if he becomes available in a trade. In the past three seasons in Minnesota, he’s finished fourth, eighth and second in passer rating. In 2019, with Kevin Stefanski as his offensive coordinator and playcaller, he finished No. 2 in the NFL with a 107.4 rating, with 26 touchdowns and only six interceptions. This season, despite a losing record, he finished fourth with a 103.1 rating, with 33 touchdown passes and seven interceptions. The Browns could do a lot worse than a QB who consistently finishes in the top 10 and doesn’t throw many picks. With former Browns Vice President of Football Operations Kwesi Adofo-Mensah now the Vikings’ GM, the working relationship is there to do a deal if both sides are interested. The Vikings might want to rebuild or retool under a new head coach, and the Browns are ready to win now.

"Being better" seems awfully subjective.

Also of note - Matthew Stafford is in the Superbowl this year and Kirk Cousins will be watching it. If he cares enough to watch.

I would absolutely love it if Mensah finds a way to unload Cousins and his contract. More than likely the Vikings will have to eat a big portion of it for that to happen, but those are the fruits of Spielman's gambling addiction at QB.

[VikingsVictorious]

Being better.
And this

Hey, Mary Kay: Do you honestly think the Browns could seriously try to acquire Kirk Cousins? — Kristopher Jacoby, Malvern, Ohio

Hey, Kristopher: I think Kirk Cousins would be worth exploring if he becomes available in a trade. In the past three seasons in Minnesota, he’s finished fourth, eighth and second in passer rating. In 2019, with Kevin Stefanski as his offensive coordinator and playcaller, he finished No. 2 in the NFL with a 107.4 rating, with 26 touchdowns and only six interceptions. This season, despite a losing record, he finished fourth with a 103.1 rating, with 33 touchdown passes and seven interceptions. The Browns could do a lot worse than a QB who consistently finishes in the top 10 and doesn’t throw many picks. With former Browns Vice President of Football Operations Kwesi Adofo-Mensah now the Vikings’ GM, the working relationship is there to do a deal if both sides are interested. The Vikings might want to rebuild or retool under a new head coach, and the Browns are ready to win now.

"Being better" seems awfully subjective.

Also of note - Matthew Stafford is in the Superbowl this year and Kirk Cousins will be watching it. If he cares enough to watch.

I would absolutely love it if Mensah finds a way to unload Cousins and his contract. More than likely the Vikings will have to eat a big portion of it for that to happen, but those are the fruits of Spielman's gambling addiction at QB.

yes being better is subjective. Cousins numbers year after year aren't. He's clearly a better QB than Stafford and if you need any more help read what Vikefan in eagle land wrote. Matthew Stafford might be the best argument there is for the Vikings sticking with Cousins. Hopefully at a little better price. $30 million annually would be fair.

Regarding watching the Super Bowl if I were Kirk, or Tom, or Aaron or Pat or any QB that's not playing in the Super Bowl I think i could find much better things to do than watch two other teams playing for what I want.

[J. Kapp 11]

"Being better" seems awfully subjective.

Also of note - Matthew Stafford is in the Superbowl this year and Kirk Cousins will be watching it. If he cares enough to watch.

I would absolutely love it if Mensah finds a way to unload Cousins and his contract. More than likely the Vikings will have to eat a big portion of it for that to happen, but those are the fruits of Spielman's gambling addiction at QB.

yes being better is subjective. Cousins numbers year after year aren't. He's clearly a better QB than Stafford and if you need any more help read what Vikefan in eagle land wrote. Matthew Stafford might be the best argument there is for the Vikings sticking with Cousins. Hopefully at a little better price. $30 million annually would be fair.

Regarding watching the Super Bowl if I were Kirk, or Tom, or Aaron or Pat or any QB that's not playing in the Super Bowl I think i could find much better things to do than watch two other teams playing for what I want.

Jesus, man. The only reason you’re citing someone else’s take as brilliant is because they agree with you.

You just keep saying “Cousins is better” without offering anything to support your argument except that somebody else agrees with you — and they’re not giving a substantive argument either! If this were a debate class, you’d fail.

Here’s why Kirk Cousins, even though he’s a “good quarterback,” is wrong for this team.

There are two working models for QBs in the NFL.

One is that you catch lightning in a bottle in the draft, pay him rookie scale, and use the extra cap space to build a monster roster around him. Think Joe Burrow.

The other is to pay a superstar like Brady or Rodgers or Mahomes huge money in the belief that they can elevate the less-talented roster you’re going to have because you’re paying your quarterback so much. In that model, the QB makes up for the roster deficiency.

What DOESN’T work is when you pay your quarterback Mahomes money, but he can’t overcome your roster deficiencies. Your honor, I present Exhibit A: KIRK D. COUSINS.

Kirk Cousins is a good NFL quarterback. He’ll get you numbers. He can run the play that’s called. He’s fine if you put an elite O-line in front of him. But he doesn’t lead. And he cannot lift a team. If everything isn’t perfect, he fails. And the biggest proof, the darkest mark against him? He’s 9-41 in his career against teams that end the season with a winning record. If you’re gonna command $45 million against the cap, then at some point, you gotta beat somebody. You don’t get to hide behind “it’s a team game.” You’re being paid to overcome. Winning 18% of your games against good teams is not overcoming.

Final point against Cousins: No team in NFL history has won a Super Bowl with its quarterback taking up more than 13% of a team's salary cap. That's in 30 years of salary cap. Kirk Cousins is estimated to take up about 22% of the Vikings' cap in 2022. It may happen someday, but I'm not betting on Kirk Cousins being the guy to do it.

THAT is analysis. It’s a combination of opinion and facts. It uses those facts to support an opinion.

Dude, you’re welcome to have a subjective opinion. Be my guest. But don’t sit there and claim your subjective opinion is gospel just because you say so. Try backing what you say with facts, not just other people’s opinions, and maybe people will take you seriously.

Your boy Cousins is as good as gone. If not in 2022, then certainly in 2023. And he’ll be gone because he’s expensive, and he's not a winner. It’s that simple.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

Here’s why Kirk Cousins, even though he’s a “good quarterback,” is wrong for this team.

There are two working models for QBs in the NFL.

One is that you catch lightning in a bottle in the draft, pay him rookie scale, and use the extra cap space to build a monster roster around him. Think Joe Burrow.

The other is to pay a superstar like Brady or Rodgers or Mahomes huge money in the belief that they can elevate the less-talented roster you’re going to have because you’re paying your quarterback so much. In that model, the QB makes up for the roster deficiency.

What DOESN’T work is when you pay your quarterback Mahomes money, but he can’t overcome your roster deficiencies. Your honor, I present Exhibit A: KIRK D. COUSINS.

Kirk Cousins is a good NFL quarterback. He’ll get you numbers. He can run the play that’s called. He’s fine if you put an elite O-line in front of him. But he doesn’t lead. And he cannot lift a team. If everything isn’t perfect, he fails. And the biggest proof, the darkest mark against him? He’s 9-41 in his career against teams that end the season with a winning record. If you’re gonna command $45 million against the cap, then at some point, you gotta beat somebody. You don’t get to hide behind “it’s a team game.” You’re being paid to overcome. Winning 18% of your games against good teams is not overcoming.

Final point against Cousins: No team in NFL history has won a Super Bowl with its quarterback taking up more than 13% of a team's salary cap. That's in 30 years of salary cap. Kirk Cousins is estimated to take up about 22% of the Vikings' cap in 2022. It may happen someday, but I'm not betting on Kirk Cousins being the guy to do it.

THAT is analysis. It’s a combination of opinion and facts. It uses those facts to support an opinion.

I can't disagree with much of what you say. I'll slightly disagree with your opinion that he's only fine with an elite O-Line. I think he can be good without a good O-Line if used properly.

What I essentially did was take my preference of what I'd like to see happen and turn it into a prediction. In that prediction, a very important part would be that his contract would have to restructured. You are correct that you can't pay him to be an elite superstar QB when he's not.

I tend to put QB's into one of four talent classes. A Class 4 QB would be one that has no business being a starting QB. He stinks by almost any measurement. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any of this class that ever made it to a Super Bowl. Some might put Tim Tebow in this class, and he did win a playoff game. A Class 3 would be what is normally described as a 'game manager". Those are the types that you normally ask not to lose the game for you and they are good enough to oblige. Normally they can succeed with a dominating defense. A Class 2 QB is a very good NFL QB and can win if he has enough talent around him. BTW, this is the class I put Cousins in. I think his numbers speak for themselves. A Class 1 QB are the superstars that you mentioned that can elevate the team around him. He can put the game on his back at times. Everyone wants one of these, but you can't always get what you want.

As TERRIBLE as I believe the game plans were this year, and even more TERRIBLE offensive play calling, with a little luck, this team was a playoff team this year. If you can RESTRUCTURE Kirks contract, I don't see scrapping a QB that I think is totally capable of taking the team deep into the playoffs, and who knows, maybe even a Super Bowl.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

Your boy Cousins is as good as gone. If not in 2022, then certainly in 2023. And he’ll be gone because he’s expensive, and he's not a winner. It’s that simple.

Just for sake of discussion, when does a loser cease to be a loser? When does a winner become a winner? Is he a loser until he wins a playoff game? Or does he have to get to the Conference Championship game? Does he have to win it? Or is he a loser until he gets to the Super Bowl?

In Cousins first year, I was guilty of pinning that "Loser" tag on him too. I tend to label QB's losers, not so much because of their win-loss record, but because what my eyes are telling me when I watch them on the field. When my eyes tell me that at some point he will become a hindrance to winning instead of a catalyst...when I see that look of panic, like he's about ready to pee in his pants...that's when I tend to call him a loser. Like stated earlier, Cousins won me over. No, he's not a great leader of men, but I also don't think his teammates look at him as wildering weakling either.

[VikingsVictorious]

yes being better is subjective. Cousins numbers year after year aren't. He's clearly a better QB than Stafford and if you need any more help read what Vikefan in eagle land wrote. Matthew Stafford might be the best argument there is for the Vikings sticking with Cousins. Hopefully at a little better price. $30 million annually would be fair.

Regarding watching the Super Bowl if I were Kirk, or Tom, or Aaron or Pat or any QB that's not playing in the Super Bowl I think i could find much better things to do than watch two other teams playing for what I want.

Jesus, man. The only reason you’re citing someone else’s take as brilliant is because they agree with you.

You just keep saying “Cousins is better” without offering anything to support your argument except that somebody else agrees with you — and they’re not giving a substantive argument either! If this were a debate class, you’d fail.

Here’s why Kirk Cousins, even though he’s a “good quarterback,” is wrong for this team.

There are two working models for QBs in the NFL.

One is that you catch lightning in a bottle in the draft, pay him rookie scale, and use the extra cap space to build a monster roster around him. Think Joe Burrow.

The other is to pay a superstar like Brady or Rodgers or Mahomes huge money in the belief that they can elevate the less-talented roster you’re going to have because you’re paying your quarterback so much. In that model, the QB makes up for the roster deficiency.

What DOESN’T work is when you pay your quarterback Mahomes money, but he can’t overcome your roster deficiencies. Your honor, I present Exhibit A: KIRK D. COUSINS.

Kirk Cousins is a good NFL quarterback. He’ll get you numbers. He can run the play that’s called. He’s fine if you put an elite O-line in front of him. But he doesn’t lead. And he cannot lift a team. If everything isn’t perfect, he fails. And the biggest proof, the darkest mark against him? He’s 9-41 in his career against teams that end the season with a winning record. If you’re gonna command $45 million against the cap, then at some point, you gotta beat somebody. You don’t get to hide behind “it’s a team game.” You’re being paid to overcome. Winning 18% of your games against good teams is not overcoming.

Final point against Cousins: No team in NFL history has won a Super Bowl with its quarterback taking up more than 13% of a team's salary cap. That's in 30 years of salary cap. Kirk Cousins is estimated to take up about 22% of the Vikings' cap in 2022. It may happen someday, but I'm not betting on Kirk Cousins being the guy to do it.

THAT is analysis. It’s a combination of opinion and facts. It uses those facts to support an opinion.

Dude, you’re welcome to have a subjective opinion. Be my guest. But don’t sit there and claim your subjective opinion is gospel just because you say so. Try backing what you say with facts, not just other people’s opinions, and maybe people will take you seriously.

Your boy Cousins is as good as gone. If not in 2022, then certainly in 2023. And he’ll be gone because he’s expensive, and he's not a winner. It’s that simple.

Kapp you are so much better than this post. To me your analysis is very lacking. I quoted the bit from Mary Kay because she was stating facts about Cousins and how very good he is.
Stafford is all I need to say to prove my point about Cousins. Anything Stafford can do Cousins certainly can. Until this year Cousins had pretty much been better in every conceivable way. Stafford is the same QB he has always been.
45 million is not Cousins salary. It is what the Vikings concocted to save cap for was it this year or last. 35Million is his salary and it might be a bit high. 30 Million would be reasonable. I don't know the exact salary cap, but if he's at 22% at 45 million it would be under 15% at 30 million. Close enough to your magic 13% number. The 45 million cap hit is only because of Vikings playing funny money.

[StumpHunter]

Being better.
And this

Hey, Mary Kay: Do you honestly think the Browns could seriously try to acquire Kirk Cousins? — Kristopher Jacoby, Malvern, Ohio

Hey, Kristopher: I think Kirk Cousins would be worth exploring if he becomes available in a trade. In the past three seasons in Minnesota, he’s finished fourth, eighth and second in passer rating. In 2019, with Kevin Stefanski as his offensive coordinator and playcaller, he finished No. 2 in the NFL with a 107.4 rating, with 26 touchdowns and only six interceptions. This season, despite a losing record, he finished fourth with a 103.1 rating, with 33 touchdown passes and seven interceptions. The Browns could do a lot worse than a QB who consistently finishes in the top 10 and doesn’t throw many picks. With former Browns Vice President of Football Operations Kwesi Adofo-Mensah now the Vikings’ GM, the working relationship is there to do a deal if both sides are interested. The Vikings might want to rebuild or retool under a new head coach, and the Browns are ready to win now.

"Being better" seems awfully subjective.

Also of note - Matthew Stafford is in the Superbowl this year and Kirk Cousins will be watching it. If he cares enough to watch.

I would absolutely love it if Mensah finds a way to unload Cousins and his contract. More than likely the Vikings will have to eat a big portion of it for that to happen, but those are the fruits of Spielman's gambling addiction at QB.

Kirk Cousins takes over a team a game away from the SB with a borderline starter, and goes 8-7.

Matt Stafford takes over a team a couple of games away from the SB with a borderline starter, and goes to the SB.

Clearly Cousins is the superior QB.

[Texas Vike]

He’s 9-41 in his career against teams that end the season with a winning record. If you’re gonna command $45 million against the cap, then at some point, you gotta beat somebody. You don’t get to hide behind “it’s a team game.” You’re being paid to overcome. Winning 18% of your games against good teams is not overcoming.

Final point against Cousins: No team in NFL history has won a Super Bowl with its quarterback taking up more than 13% of a team's salary cap. That's in 30 years of salary cap. Kirk Cousins is estimated to take up about 22% of the Vikings' cap in 2022. It may happen someday, but I'm not betting on Kirk Cousins being the guy to do it.

I'd give you an A.

I think his 9-41 record against winning teams is the most important stat. Paired with his cap hit, and that is the crux of the issue. I could imagine a supporter saying that he's had the poor fortune of being surrounded by teams with a dearth of talent. That's simply not true. The Vikings were 13-3 and acquired KC thinking he was the missing piece.

[VikingsVictorious]

He’s 9-41 in his career against teams that end the season with a winning record. If you’re gonna command $45 million against the cap, then at some point, you gotta beat somebody. You don’t get to hide behind “it’s a team game.” You’re being paid to overcome. Winning 18% of your games against good teams is not overcoming.

Final point against Cousins: No team in NFL history has won a Super Bowl with its quarterback taking up more than 13% of a team's salary cap. That's in 30 years of salary cap. Kirk Cousins is estimated to take up about 22% of the Vikings' cap in 2022. It may happen someday, but I'm not betting on Kirk Cousins being the guy to do it.

I'd give you an A.

I think his 9-41 record against winning teams is the most important stat. Paired with his cap hit, and that is the crux of the issue. I could imagine a supporter saying that he's had the poor fortune of being surrounded by teams with a dearth of talent. That's simply not true. The Vikings were 13-3 and acquired KC thinking he was the missing piece.

I was one of those people who thought he could make the difference. However, I also thought maybe we could stick with Case and spend the extra money elsewhere like fixing the OL. Things outside of Cousins control happened. This season showed a lot of potential early until injuries caught up with us. With a few breaks this year I think we could be playing for it all instead of on vacation. We may have missed our window as some of our best players are getting old or washed up.

[fiestavike]

There are different ways to measure QB play, and across that divide, I have learned, there is no valuable conversation to be had.

Bottom line, Cousins is a low efficiency football player. He does a lot of things badly. They are the sort of things that often go overlooked when done well, because they aren't scoring plays, or flashy big gainers. Those are the things that get the attention from those who tend toward a fantasy football or ball watching approach. Kirk does fine against soft targets, and is abysmal against hard targets. Kirk cannot adapt well in the moment. Kirk has no instinct for the game. There are lots of QBs who can't rip up soft targets as well as Kirk. If a low efficiency QB who can kick the dogs that are down is one's idea of a top tier QB, Kirk is their guy. In truth, the rule changes have made it relatively easy for that type of QB to put up good numbers. If you measure QBs by the numbers they put up, Kirk is your guy.

[VikingsVictorious]

There are different ways to measure QB play, and across that divide, I have learned, there is no valuable conversation to be had.

Bottom line, Cousins is a low efficiency football player. He does a lot of things badly. They are the sort of things that often go overlooked when done well, because they aren't scoring plays, or flashy big gainers. Those are the things that get the attention from those who tend toward a fantasy football or ball watching approach. Kirk does fine against soft targets, and is abysmal against hard targets. Kirk cannot adapt well in the moment. Kirk has no instinct for the game. There are lots of QBs who can't rip up soft targets as well as Kirk. If a low efficiency QB who can kick the dogs that are down is one's idea of a top tier QB, Kirk is their guy. In truth, the rule changes have made it relatively easy for that type of QB to put up good numbers. If you measure QBs by the numbers they put up, Kirk is your guy.

I do measure a QB mostly by the numbers he puts up. He can't control the other stuff. Kirk was particularly great in the clutch this year.