Who did the Vikings want at 8?

[StumpHunter]

Oh no I agree I've said that from day 1. The difference between, for example, 4th round talent and 5th round talent is marginal at best. So if you trade back from round 4 to round 5 and maybe gain an extra 7th, more power to ya. I would take my chances on 2 players over 1 player at that point in the draft. I've always said I liked their philosophy behind that. The more players you bring in, the better the chances of hitting on picks.

As far as the Vikings go, we don't know for sure who they would have taken if they hadn't traded back, so it could be those trade backs haven't hurt us. We do know that they have added very little with all of those 6th and 7th rounders. Since 2011, the Vikings have had 48 picks in the 6th and 7th round, more than any other GM. He has added one All pro with those picks: Blair Walsh.

He has added 3 multi-year starters: Fusco, Stephen and Walsh.

Significant 6th and 7th round draft picks since 2011:
Fusco
Stephen
Walsh
Weatherly
Odenigbo
Kearse

Solid depth and 3 mediocre starters, or in other words the type of players you can find just as easily in UDFAs or on the waiver wire.

Trading back in those later rounds just isn't a strategy that has shown any sort of impactful results.

Now, trading back in the 1st or 2nd is a different animal and I really liked the strategy the Vikings employed this year. Looking to trade up for a guy you really like, and when that fails, acquiring picks in rounds where you have a ton of success instead of rounds where you really haven't had any was the right move.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Oh no I agree I've said that from day 1. The difference between, for example, 4th round talent and 5th round talent is marginal at best. So if you trade back from round 4 to round 5 and maybe gain an extra 7th, more power to ya. I would take my chances on 2 players over 1 player at that point in the draft. I've always said I liked their philosophy behind that. The more players you bring in, the better the chances of hitting on picks.

As far as the Vikings go, we don't know for sure who they would have taken if they hadn't traded back, so it could be those trade backs haven't hurt us. We do know that they have added very little with all of those 6th and 7th rounders. Since 2011, the Vikings have had 48 picks in the 6th and 7th round, more than any other GM. He has added one All pro with those picks: Blair Walsh.

He has added 3 multi-year starters: Fusco, Stephen and Walsh.

Significant 6th and 7th round draft picks since 2011:
Fusco
Stephen
Walsh
Weatherly
Odenigbo
Kearse

Solid depth and 3 mediocre starters, or in other words the type of players you can find just as easily in UDFAs or on the waiver wire.

Trading back in those later rounds just isn't a strategy that has shown any sort of impactful results.

Now, trading back in the 1st or 2nd is a different animal and I really liked the strategy the Vikings employed this year. Looking to trade up for a guy you really like, and when that fails, acquiring picks in rounds where you have a ton of success instead of rounds where you really haven't had any was the right move.

In all fairness, he's also one of the longest tenured GMs in the NFL I'd have to imagine which is why he'd have the most.

But regardless, the fact that they've had so many since 2011, and they all of the sudden didnt make a single move this year, tells me it probably was Paton that employed this philosophy more than Spielman did. I mean it was the initial rumor to begin with and then Spielman ends up taking a completely different approach this year.

[StumpHunter]

As far as the Vikings go, we don't know for sure who they would have taken if they hadn't traded back, so it could be those trade backs haven't hurt us. We do know that they have added very little with all of those 6th and 7th rounders. Since 2011, the Vikings have had 48 picks in the 6th and 7th round, more than any other GM. He has added one All pro with those picks: Blair Walsh.

He has added 3 multi-year starters: Fusco, Stephen and Walsh.

Significant 6th and 7th round draft picks since 2011:
Fusco
Stephen
Walsh
Weatherly
Odenigbo
Kearse

Solid depth and 3 mediocre starters, or in other words the type of players you can find just as easily in UDFAs or on the waiver wire.

Trading back in those later rounds just isn't a strategy that has shown any sort of impactful results.

Now, trading back in the 1st or 2nd is a different animal and I really liked the strategy the Vikings employed this year. Looking to trade up for a guy you really like, and when that fails, acquiring picks in rounds where you have a ton of success instead of rounds where you really haven't had any was the right move.

In all fairness, he's also one of the longest tenured GMs in the NFL I'd have to imagine which is why he'd have the most.

But regardless, the fact that they've had so many since 2011, and they all of the sudden didnt make a single move this year, tells me it probably was Paton that employed this philosophy more than Spielman did. I mean it was the initial rumor to begin with and then Spielman ends up taking a completely different approach this year.

I should have been more clear by saying the Vikings have had more picks in the 6th and 7th than any other team since 2011.

Are you saying Paton had more say in draft day trades and philosophies than the GM?

[CharVike]

I have been against Spielman and hsi trade down to accumulate 6th and 7th rd picks and very much against it. I feel that 3rd rd talent far exceeds multiple 7th rders.
With this draft, I was trading down in every mock I did to accumulate multiple 2nd and 3rds. I felt that it was a very deep OL draft and the WR group for the 2nd year in a row was deep with talent. So when we traded down and got 2 3rds... I was a little skeptical, because I would have preferred a 2nd, but that may not have been on the table.
To get Darrisaw, Mond, and Davis is in my opinion an AWESOME deal. I cannot believe we got all 3 of them !!
I had Darrisaw as a top 3-4 LT. Davis was a top 2 OG, and Mond to me is the kid who could be the Russell Wilson of the draft. The kid wins !!! Give me that all day long.

So if they were willing to move up to 8, and it didn't work out, I am in no way upset that it didn't, I think it worked out perfectly.
I was getting pretty excited on draft day as our pick kept getting closer and Fields was still there.
Hindsight, I am happier with what we have, than what we could have had !!!

I was hoping he would stay put and pick the player that fell to him Jones. Some had SF taking him at 3. That don't happen very often and I felt it was a lucky break for us. Of course like all QBs he could be a bust. Cousins is out. They wanted another deal cut and he said no. Once this season is over Speiman needs to deal him. He's certainly worth what Stafford was. This is when a GM proves his value. Any idiot can trade down to stockpile a bunch of 7th rounders. He had 25 of those worthless picks since he's been GM. There's always a high need for QB. A tide turner deal is there to be made. Go with Mond. The kid OL he picked this year will have the bugs worked out by then. Plus Jefferson will he happy. He couldn't have mapped it out any better.

[Pondering Her Percy]

In all fairness, he's also one of the longest tenured GMs in the NFL I'd have to imagine which is why he'd have the most.

But regardless, the fact that they've had so many since 2011, and they all of the sudden didnt make a single move this year, tells me it probably was Paton that employed this philosophy more than Spielman did. I mean it was the initial rumor to begin with and then Spielman ends up taking a completely different approach this year.

I should have been more clear by saying the Vikings have had more picks in the 6th and 7th than any other team since 2011.

Are you saying Paton had more say in draft day trades and philosophies than the GM?

No I'm not at all saying he had more "say". But it was rumored that Paton was the one that pushed for that and brought that philosophy to the draft room. And given the one year we make 0 trades for late rounders is the first year Paton is gone. It seems too ironic to not be true to be honest. No less that rumor was going on BEFORE the draft and before any moves like that were even made. Granted, we will never know what goes on inside a draft room but all signs point to that being Paton's philosophy. Not as much Spielmans

[StumpHunter]

I should have been more clear by saying the Vikings have had more picks in the 6th and 7th than any other team since 2011.

Are you saying Paton had more say in draft day trades and philosophies than the GM?

No I'm not at all saying he had more "say". But it was rumored that Paton was the one that pushed for that and brought that philosophy to the draft room. And given the one year we make 0 trades for late rounders is the first year Paton is gone. It seems too ironic to not be true to be honest. No less that rumor was going on BEFORE the draft and before any moves like that were even made. Granted, we will never know what goes on inside a draft room but all signs point to that being Paton's philosophy. Not as much Spielmans

If Rick continues to not trade back for 6th and 7ths in future drafts I could go with your theory, but because of Covid and NCAA rule changes for an extra year of eligibility, 2021's draft had even less talent in the 4th,5th,6th, and 7th rounds than usual. Every GM knew that and as much as I rag on Rick, he is no idiot.

[Pondering Her Percy]

No I'm not at all saying he had more "say". But it was rumored that Paton was the one that pushed for that and brought that philosophy to the draft room. And given the one year we make 0 trades for late rounders is the first year Paton is gone. It seems too ironic to not be true to be honest. No less that rumor was going on BEFORE the draft and before any moves like that were even made. Granted, we will never know what goes on inside a draft room but all signs point to that being Paton's philosophy. Not as much Spielmans

If Rick continues to not trade back for 6th and 7ths in future drafts I could go with your theory, but because of Covid and NCAA rule changes for an extra year of eligibility, 2021's draft had even less talent in the 4th,5th,6th, and 7th rounds than usual. Every GM knew that and as much as I rag on Rick, he is no idiot.

I dont think that was necessarily the reason whatsoever. No less, why would that rumor come out regarding Paton? Sounds more like you're just disagreeing because you feel like it. Future drafts will prove what Spielmans philosophy is. But I'm not sure why anyone would randomly make that up about Paton, no less we didnt trade for a single one the first year without him.

[fiestavike]

If Rick continues to not trade back for 6th and 7ths in future drafts I could go with your theory, but because of Covid and NCAA rule changes for an extra year of eligibility, 2021's draft had even less talent in the 4th,5th,6th, and 7th rounds than usual. Every GM knew that and as much as I rag on Rick, he is no idiot.

I dont think that was necessarily the reason whatsoever. No less, why would that rumor come out regarding Paton? Sounds more like you're just disagreeing because you feel like it. Future drafts will prove what Spielmans philosophy is. But I'm not sure why anyone would randomly make that up about Paton, no less we didnt trade for a single one the first year without him.

Just for the record guys, this is not how to have a civilized conversation.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I dont think that was necessarily the reason whatsoever. No less, why would that rumor come out regarding Paton? Sounds more like you're just disagreeing because you feel like it. Future drafts will prove what Spielmans philosophy is. But I'm not sure why anyone would randomly make that up about Paton, no less we didnt trade for a single one the first year without him.

Just for the record guys, this is not how to have a civilized conversation.

ok? Thanks

[YikesVikes]

No fact just gut feeling. Could be totally wrong.. my gut says fields will not pan out special. As discussed often. Qbs drafted with very high expectations are more often than not. BUSTS..Look at the Bears with Trabiski, late example, but maybe a chance, Mond May bust, but the expectations are not there as with Fields.

Wouldn’t it be something to see our players drafted in his spot. The ones we drafted and ones we saved our picks pan out stars. Fields becomes a journey,

Maybe I am wrong, maybe he Stars

We all have opinions about the players drafted. Mond has expectations and needs to take over in two years max. However after starting nearly 4 years he's still considered a developmental guy. This is what concerns me "He’s a good athlete for his size, and he runs tough." We have a guy who can run tough his name is Cook. We need a guy who can throw tough. Thread the needle from any angle, hang in against heavy pressure, throw all different type of passes, has tremendous accuracy, has touch ect.... In other words be a QB. Most experts come out with this BS that a team has no chance unless you have a dual threat at QB. Then they think for once and say except for Brady and Rodgers ect..... The Pats currently have a dual threat former MVP QB and drafted a potential upgrade in round 1. Wonder why? Because his passing skills blow. But he's a good athlete and runner. You need to be able to pass the ball in today's game. Most rules are bent to favor the passing game. This isn't early 1970's football anymore. What Speilman picked is TJack act 2. I already seen act 1 and I don't need it again. It's boring football. Everybody has an opinion about Cousins also. What everybody forgets is he plays behind a swiss cheese offensive line. No QB performs well under that scenario just ask Mahomes. Speilman's view of an upgrade is draft a couple guys. Don't even worry about getting the blue chip player just get a guy. I don't agree with that approach at all. How can a GM think of not bringing in competition for Bradbury and Cleveland? They can't hold the point. It's hard to play QB with that going on in front of you. I seen them all crumble when that goes on. The Chiefs adjusted the CAP and brought in proven NFL players to help their QB. Speilman can't see that path. He's blinded and stuck in his way of doing things. That will never change. The plan now is to throw two rookies against the wolves. Good luck to the kids and good luck to Cousins health. Maybe he'll get knocked out and we can see the future this year.

You made several good points and several bad ones.
The Good:
1. I don't get the Mond hype train either. Media and guys have him replacing Cousins before he has thrown a pass in the NFL. This is so disrespectful to our current QB. Given, that Mond has horrible mechanics and looks very robotic... I don' think he will ever be the player Cousins is. He may become our starter in 2 years but I don't think he will ever be a star.

2. Cousins did play behind a bad line.

3. The lack of comp for Bradbury is alarming. Guy has not looked good the last two years. As I have mentioned many times, he is far behind two guys drafted after him in Elgton Jenkins and Erik McCoy (both going to teams I hate Packer and Saints).

The Bad:
1. You continue to assume mobile = running QB. The NFL is no longer looking for running QBs, unless they are exceptionally special like Lamar Jackson. Instead they are looking for guys that can move in and out the pocket and use their legs to buy their WRs time (example Murray, Mahomes, etc). Mond isn't a runner. He is average speed and not very elusive. He is capable as a play extender and that is the direction the NFL is going into.

2. Kirk has had some of his best moments when he takes off and run early in games. It affects the defense and he simply gets into a good rythem.

3. Cousin's issues are often not related to pressure. He is sometimes just inexplicably inaccurate. He melts down in some games despite an average pocket. It's the biggest knock on him. Sometimes he is amazing (received little credit for these games) and other times he is god awful.

[CharVike]

We all have opinions about the players drafted. Mond has expectations and needs to take over in two years max. However after starting nearly 4 years he's still considered a developmental guy. This is what concerns me "He’s a good athlete for his size, and he runs tough." We have a guy who can run tough his name is Cook. We need a guy who can throw tough. Thread the needle from any angle, hang in against heavy pressure, throw all different type of passes, has tremendous accuracy, has touch ect.... In other words be a QB. Most experts come out with this BS that a team has no chance unless you have a dual threat at QB. Then they think for once and say except for Brady and Rodgers ect..... The Pats currently have a dual threat former MVP QB and drafted a potential upgrade in round 1. Wonder why? Because his passing skills blow. But he's a good athlete and runner. You need to be able to pass the ball in today's game. Most rules are bent to favor the passing game. This isn't early 1970's football anymore. What Speilman picked is TJack act 2. I already seen act 1 and I don't need it again. It's boring football. Everybody has an opinion about Cousins also. What everybody forgets is he plays behind a swiss cheese offensive line. No QB performs well under that scenario just ask Mahomes. Speilman's view of an upgrade is draft a couple guys. Don't even worry about getting the blue chip player just get a guy. I don't agree with that approach at all. How can a GM think of not bringing in competition for Bradbury and Cleveland? They can't hold the point. It's hard to play QB with that going on in front of you. I seen them all crumble when that goes on. The Chiefs adjusted the CAP and brought in proven NFL players to help their QB. Speilman can't see that path. He's blinded and stuck in his way of doing things. That will never change. The plan now is to throw two rookies against the wolves. Good luck to the kids and good luck to Cousins health. Maybe he'll get knocked out and we can see the future this year.

You made several good points and several bad ones.
The Good:
1. I don't get the Mond hype train either. Media and guys have him replacing Cousins before he has thrown a pass in the NFL. This is so disrespectful to our current QB. Given, that Mond has horrible mechanics and looks very robotic... I don' think he will ever be the player Cousins is. He may become our starter in 2 years but I don't think he will ever be a star.

2. Cousins did play behind a bad line.

3. The lack of comp for Bradbury is alarming. Guy has not looked good the last two years. As I have mentioned many times, he is far behind two guys drafted after him in Elgton Jenkins and Erik McCoy (both going to teams I hate Packer and Saints).

The Bad:
1. You continue to assume mobile = running QB. The NFL is no longer looking for running QBs, unless they are exceptionally special like Lamar Jackson. Instead they are looking for guys that can move in and out the pocket and use their legs to buy their WRs time (example Murray, Mahomes, etc). Mond isn't a runner. He is average speed and not very elusive. He is capable as a play extender and that is the direction the NFL is going into.

2. Kirk has had some of his best moments when he takes off and run early in games. It affects the defense and he simply gets into a good rythem.

3. Cousin's issues are often not related to pressure. He is sometimes just inexplicably inaccurate. He melts down in some games despite an average pocket. It's the biggest knock on him. Sometimes he is amazing (received little credit for these games) and other times he is god awful.

I know what a running QB is. Jackson is a runner. He gets a 1000 yards rushing some of that off passing plays. There isn't another like him. His problem comes when a dam good D basically says you need to beat us through the air. At that point he's done. The mobility measure is a difficult one to answer. I usually just take rushing yards which shows a guy can move or is mobile. Mahomes is considered mobile and I agree with that. Found this According to NextGenStats, via Seth Walder of ESPN.com, Mahomes ran 497 yards before throwing the ball or being sacked on Sunday night. It was the highest total for any quarterback in the 2020 season.
Second on the list? Mahomes in Week Five, against the Raiders. That day, Mahomes ran for 495 yards before throwing the ball or getting sacked.
He is basically running around for almost 500 yards a game behind the line of scrimmage. Not rushing yards just buying time yards. That nonsense back fired when the Bucs sent the heat in the Super Bowl. Couldn't score. Mobility had no use. They rebuilt a very good OL with top NFL players. Pressure will slow them all down even the most mobile Mahomes. Rodgers struggles when the heat is on. Cousins struggles when the heat is coming and sometimes when it's not. The Chiefs ran an RPO play with Mahomes or as Switzer called it a broken bone were the QB runs horizontal with the LOS and either pitches to the back or bangs it into the LOS for yardage. He banged it and then was banged. Concussion. That was a rushing attempt utilizing his mobility or athletic ability or whatever tag fits today.

[YikesVikes]

You made several good points and several bad ones.
The Good:
1. I don't get the Mond hype train either. Media and guys have him replacing Cousins before he has thrown a pass in the NFL. This is so disrespectful to our current QB. Given, that Mond has horrible mechanics and looks very robotic... I don' think he will ever be the player Cousins is. He may become our starter in 2 years but I don't think he will ever be a star.

2. Cousins did play behind a bad line.

3. The lack of comp for Bradbury is alarming. Guy has not looked good the last two years. As I have mentioned many times, he is far behind two guys drafted after him in Elgton Jenkins and Erik McCoy (both going to teams I hate Packer and Saints).

The Bad:
1. You continue to assume mobile = running QB. The NFL is no longer looking for running QBs, unless they are exceptionally special like Lamar Jackson. Instead they are looking for guys that can move in and out the pocket and use their legs to buy their WRs time (example Murray, Mahomes, etc). Mond isn't a runner. He is average speed and not very elusive. He is capable as a play extender and that is the direction the NFL is going into.

2. Kirk has had some of his best moments when he takes off and run early in games. It affects the defense and he simply gets into a good rythem.

3. Cousin's issues are often not related to pressure. He is sometimes just inexplicably inaccurate. He melts down in some games despite an average pocket. It's the biggest knock on him. Sometimes he is amazing (received little credit for these games) and other times he is god awful.

I know what a running QB is. Jackson is a runner. He gets a 1000 yards rushing some of that off passing plays. There isn't another like him. His problem comes when a dam good D basically says you need to beat us through the air. At that point he's done. The mobility measure is a difficult one to answer. I usually just take rushing yards which shows a guy can move or is mobile. Mahomes is considered mobile and I agree with that. Found this According to NextGenStats, via Seth Walder of ESPN.com, Mahomes ran 497 yards before throwing the ball or being sacked on Sunday night. It was the highest total for any quarterback in the 2020 season.
Second on the list? Mahomes in Week Five, against the Raiders. That day, Mahomes ran for 495 yards before throwing the ball or getting sacked.
He is basically running around for almost 500 yards a game behind the line of scrimmage. Not rushing yards just buying time yards. That nonsense back fired when the Bucs sent the heat in the Super Bowl. Couldn't score. Mobility had no use. They rebuilt a very good OL with top NFL players. Pressure will slow them all down even the most mobile Mahomes. Rodgers struggles when the heat is on. Cousins struggles when the heat is coming and sometimes when it's not. The Chiefs ran an RPO play with Mahomes or as Switzer called it a broken bone were the QB runs horizontal with the LOS and either pitches to the back or bangs it into the LOS for yardage. He banged it and then was banged. Concussion. That was a rushing attempt utilizing his mobility or athletic ability or whatever tag fits today.

Why does everyone ignore the fact that the chiefs were missing both starting tackles in the Superbowl? That's why they struggled.

[CharVike]

I know what a running QB is. Jackson is a runner. He gets a 1000 yards rushing some of that off passing plays. There isn't another like him. His problem comes when a dam good D basically says you need to beat us through the air. At that point he's done. The mobility measure is a difficult one to answer. I usually just take rushing yards which shows a guy can move or is mobile. Mahomes is considered mobile and I agree with that. Found this According to NextGenStats, via Seth Walder of ESPN.com, Mahomes ran 497 yards before throwing the ball or being sacked on Sunday night. It was the highest total for any quarterback in the 2020 season.
Second on the list? Mahomes in Week Five, against the Raiders. That day, Mahomes ran for 495 yards before throwing the ball or getting sacked.
He is basically running around for almost 500 yards a game behind the line of scrimmage. Not rushing yards just buying time yards. That nonsense back fired when the Bucs sent the heat in the Super Bowl. Couldn't score. Mobility had no use. They rebuilt a very good OL with top NFL players. Pressure will slow them all down even the most mobile Mahomes. Rodgers struggles when the heat is on. Cousins struggles when the heat is coming and sometimes when it's not. The Chiefs ran an RPO play with Mahomes or as Switzer called it a broken bone were the QB runs horizontal with the LOS and either pitches to the back or bangs it into the LOS for yardage. He banged it and then was banged. Concussion. That was a rushing attempt utilizing his mobility or athletic ability or whatever tag fits today.

Why does everyone ignore the fact that the chiefs were missing both starting tackles in the Superbowl? That's why they struggled.

That's not ignored. That allowed the Bucs to bring pressure. The mobile and athletic Mahomes couldn't put any TDs on the board. People ignore that. Too much pressure and he couldn't perform. Didn't use his mobility to buy time for his WRs. Heavy pressure stops every QB. People ignore that simple fact.

[StumpHunter]

Why does everyone ignore the fact that the chiefs were missing both starting tackles in the Superbowl? That's why they struggled.

That's not ignored. That allowed the Bucs to bring pressure. The mobile and athletic Mahomes couldn't put any TDs on the board. People ignore that. Too much pressure and he couldn't perform. Didn't use his mobility to buy time for his WRs. Heavy pressure stops every QB. People ignore that simple fact.

Did you not watch that game? He had multiple TDs dropped by his WRs after he "used his mobility to buy time for his WRs". Those drops likely weren't the difference in the game, since KC's defense couldn't stop Brady, but 20 points versus 12 would have been the difference between a win or a loss in a number of other SBs.

[StumpHunter]

The Bad:
1. You continue to assume mobile = running QB. The NFL is no longer looking for running QBs, unless they are exceptionally special like Lamar Jackson. Instead they are looking for guys that can move in and out the pocket and use their legs to buy their WRs time (example Murray, Mahomes, etc). Mond isn't a runner. He is average speed and not very elusive. He is capable as a play extender and that is the direction the NFL is going into.

People who call Mond a running QB obviously haven't watched a lot of film on him and are making a judgement based on what they have read about him or something else. He is not a QB like a Jackson, Hill or Hurts.

Mond is a mobile QB like Rodgers, Allen, Murray, Mahomes and Wilson. You watch him in games and his success comes from what he does with his arm, after he buys time with his legs.

I have watched 6 games recently of Mond playing against quality opponents and I am impressed with his play. I don't see the significant mechanical flaws in his throwing motion. I see a QB who played behind a line that got pushed around a lot throwing to WRs who rarely got wide open and I see him making plays out of nothing. More than any other college QB I have watched, his play reminds me of what NFL QBs have to do every Sunday when they are playing against the best in the world.