Fire everyone and start all over please

[FredJohnson22]

Most of y’all are like “Fire Spielman, Fire Spielman!”

Do any of you guys know any viable GM candidates? I’m lazy to Google.

And would "good" GM or HC candidates want to inherit this team?
Most "good" ones want to select their own QB.

[J. Kapp 11]

For those that want to keep Spielman for the job he's done drafting, don't forget he's in charge of the whole thing and doing pretty good at one thing doesn't make up for the rest.

He hasn't done a good job signing free agents or making trades..
Who is the best free agent Spielman has brought in? Ignoring Cousins here to not go down that road, would you say it's Linval Joseph? Others include Terrance Newman, Captain Munnerlyn and guys like Bradford, Keenum. I realize Minnesota may not be an attractive destination, but we've made some mediocre FA signings on the O-Line, but nothing to write home about. I'm not talking undrafted FA either, that's back to the draft. We're always looking for QBs and never developing them either. We're so quick to trade our upper picks, we miss on guys like other late QBs that have potential to develop.

He hasn't done a good job with coaches.
Even if you don't want to count Frazier, he was part of it.

Interesting point.

With our facilities and fan base, you’d think the Vikings would be a free agent preferred destination.

Even though I know you’d prefer not to go down Cousins Avenue, maybe free agents don’t take the Vikings seriously because Cousins is here.

Or maybe Spielman just thinks he’s a draft genius and isn’t interested in high-profile free agents.

[Crax]

With our facilities and fan base, you’d think the Vikings would be a free agent preferred destination.

It's not Cleveland, but it's no Florida or California that seems to be able to attract guys just based on destination, but I still feel like the Vikings could do more outside the draft.

Even though I know you’d prefer not to go down Cousins Avenue, maybe free agents don’t take the Vikings seriously because Cousins is here.

Maybe, but he's only been here for a couple years, Spielman has been here for 6+ more than Cousins depending on how you want to count the ol triangle of authority.

Or maybe Spielman just thinks he’s a draft genius and isn’t interested in high-profile free agents.

Haha, I think the feels like he can draft a bunch of players and save money on salaries, but guys like Sendejo will only get you so far.

I felt like the Vikings had a chance in 1998 and 2009. Even though they didn't, the team felt good enough to win a SB. I don't feel like any of the teams in the last 10 years have had a real chance of doing it. Vikings were pretty good and had the Minneapolis miracle, but I'm not sure anyone really felt that was a SB winning team.

[Boon]

Bottom line is they should have never let the secondary walk to keep cousins. It was a death sentence. Just take the L and cut him. Screw the cap hit, get rid of him immediately. Draft fields, sign a vet backup to help mentor him and lets go. And then cut the entire secondary

[cogitator]

Different skills and strengths required. It's like saying - if you think Cousins is so good, he should be playing wide receiver.

Not really, Belichick is general manager and head coach and he won 5 Superbowls

Yes, but it always goes in the direction of a coach adding the GM job. And it doesn't seem to work out too well very often (Bill O'Brien, Mike Shanahan in Washington, etc). Well, it's not about to happen.

[Texas Vike]

Good article, Crax.

I like the sound of these guys:

Ed Dodds, assistant GM, Colts: Dodds was long among Seahawks GM John Schneider’s most trusted confidants in Seattle, and he’s done nothing but validate that standing in three seasons in Indianapolis, earning the promotion to assistant GM. He’s been a rock for Ballard in assembling a number of impressive draft hauls.

Trent Kirchner, co-director of player personnel, Seahawks: I had one GM call Kirchner “the guy who should be a GM and I can’t believe he’s not.” So some are hot on him, others aren’t as much (in part, because Seattle’s had so many candidates over the years), but there’s no question the resume is there. The Seattle exec’s background is on the pro side, but Schneider has him out on the college scouting trail plenty now.

The most likely scenario to come to fruition, given what we've seen from the Wilfs is Patton, who is listed among the top ten candidates and is already familiar with the organization:

George Paton, assistant GM, Vikings: Paton is where DeCosta was and Caserio has been for years—more-than-ready to be a GM, with some questioning whether he’ll actually leave his good situation in Minnesota. I do think he’d be willing to consider jobs elsewhere this offseason, if the right team came along.

[psjordan]

He hasn't done a good job signing free agents or making trades..

Depends on whether you think he sucks at it, or it's a team philosophy, similar to the Packers, who also do not believe in signing FA's or making "meaningful" trades.

If you think Rick sucks at it, well then, have at it trying to show where he has tried and failed to sign FA's or make trades.

Personally I think it's a philosophy thing, similar to trading down for extra picks in the draft. You can argue with his philosophies for sure, but for instance you can't say "he has not done a good job of trading up in the draft" when it's clearly his philosophy to trade down.

[psjordan]

I'm curious and ignorant of this, so this is a genuine question:

Does Spielman truly have full control of hiring and firing the coaching staff, as well as coaching contract extensions?

I have always assumed he does not have such authority.

[StumpHunter]

Risk of firing Rick and Zimmer:
You lose a GM who is okay at drafting and the next guy might be worse.

You lose a HC who, when given the right talent, puts together a solid defensive game plan most Sundays and the next guy might not even do that.

What you could gain:
A GM who is great at drafting, signing free agents, identifying offensive line talent and who thinks beyond the next season to the future of the franchise.

A HC who does a better job managing the offense and who can let his DC handle the defense in an offensive oriented NFL.

Oh, and you could also find a GM and HC capable of building/coaching a team to the SB.

This should be a no brainer. Rick and Zim have taken this team as far as they can and it is time to see what else is out there. It might be garbage, and we might end up with the next Adam Gase, but if that happens we just fire him and move on to the next guy. Keeping Rick and Zimmer ensures we don't have garbage at GM and HC, but it also ensures we won't ever get greatness at those spots.

[psjordan]

Risk of firing Rick and Zimmer:
You lose a GM who is okay at drafting and the next guy might be worse.

You lose a HC who, when given the right talent, puts together a solid defensive game plan most Sundays and the next guy might not even do that.

I wouldn't argue too much with anyone who wanted to fire both, but IMO if you are looking at it from the perspective of "we could do worse", IMO Rick sticks around longer than Zim in that analysis. IOW, the chances of finding worse than Rick are higher than the chances of finding worse than Zim, and for me it's not that tight of a race.

Still, theoretically we could do better at each position. But made-up statistics in my head say we'd be better off firing coaching staff first.

Any new HC coach with an agent worth his salt will basically demand any "Cousins years" don't count against him. So instead of getting say a 4-5 year "normal" HC contract, I could see someone demanding 6+, assuming they take over next season. Similar to Gruden's 10 years let's say. The good part for fans is we don't care if we have to can the guy after 3 years, the Wilfs eat the $ and it won't count against any cap. Bad news for the Wilfs is that they may have to eat a lot of million dollars.

[Pondering Her Percy]

But to be honest stump, every GM has some not so nice picks. I just feel like spielmans a better GM than a good 80% of the league. Again, the talent we’ve had on this team since he took over, has been very solid. Talent wise, I would say we’ve had one of the better rosters year after year for quite some time. Analysts are always saying it. Which leads me to believe that it’s more the scheme and coaching than it is spielman. I still think this years draft was one of his best yet as good as 2015 was. And the way he worked the draft board to gain two more picks next year was impressive. I mean this Jefferson pick looks like a home run. I still like both gladney and dantzlers potential. Hell even Harrison hand. Sometimes it’s tough because Zim just fails to ever play these guys. Instead he plays Samia, Bisi, hill, Johnson/Stephen, etc. But from a potential standpoint and what we already have coming next year draft pick wise, I think this team is certainly reloading and I’d like to foresee Spielman continue to revamp this roster

They do all have misses, but overall the great GMs hits end up building championship caliber teams, something Rick has never done. Rick, like Zimmer is just an okay GM. The Vikings could do worse, but they could also do better. They need better to win it all so to me the answer is pretty simple.


Lynch, Wonnum and Cleveland are not going to make this team significantly better. I would like them getting more reps over guys who have no future on the team, but that won't benefit us this year like you are implying. Heck, Cleveland started today and it was the second worst showing by the offense. He wasn't the missing piece, neither are two late round draft picks.

I never implied that those guy were the missing pieces. However, keeping them on the bench in favor of players worse than them sure doesnt help

[Mothman]

I'm curious and ignorant of this, so this is a genuine question:

Does Spielman truly have full control of hiring and firing the coaching staff, as well as coaching contract extensions?

I have always assumed he does not have such authority.

He has full control over the roster, scouting department and draft. The Wilfs retain the authority to hire and fire coaches. Spielman's role there is to recommend. As I understand it, Zimmer was essentially his hire, with a stamp of approval from ownership.

I'm not sure if the Wilfs concern themselves with assistant coaches. I'm guessing they defer to the wishes of Spielman and Zimmer on that but that's just a guess.

[psjordan]

Do you think it's a matter of them being developed with proper coaching then? If we're drafting the right people and they aren't succeeding then we aren't developing them, no?

Well yes, I think we are not developing them. And IMO that is squarely on the coaching staff. And by "developing" I mean a lot of things, beyond X's and O's.

That is still Spielman's responsibility imo. He isn't just personal/draft. I realize the GM isn't hiring all the positional coaches, etc, the HC is. It's his HC though.

A lot of people keep saying this, which is why I asked the question above. I have always assumed Rick does not have sole authority over the HC hire/fire.

[Pondering Her Percy]

For those that want to keep Spielman for the job he's done drafting, don't forget he's in charge of the whole thing and doing pretty good at one thing doesn't make up for the rest.

He hasn't done a good job signing free agents or making trades..
Who is the best free agent Spielman has brought in? Ignoring Cousins here to not go down that road, would you say it's Linval Joseph? Others include Terrance Newman, Captain Munnerlyn and guys like Bradford, Keenum. I realize Minnesota may not be an attractive destination, but we've made some mediocre FA signings on the O-Line, but nothing to write home about. I'm not talking undrafted FA either, that's back to the draft. We're always looking for QBs and never developing them either. We're so quick to trade our upper picks, we miss on guys like other late QBs that have potential to develop.

He hasn't done a good job with coaches.
Even if you don't want to count Frazier, he was part of it.

Interesting point.

With our facilities and fan base, you’d think the Vikings would be a free agent preferred destination.

Even though I know you’d prefer not to go down Cousins Avenue, maybe free agents don’t take the Vikings seriously because Cousins is here.

Or maybe Spielman just thinks he’s a draft genius and isn’t interested in high-profile free agents.

I dont think Cousins has anything to do with it whatsoever. Spielman very rarely dips into the high profile free agent market. His strategy has always been to build through the draft. I mean how often have we seen free agents visit the Vikings and walk away without a deal, hardly ever. Not even sure if I can name one. It's not like this team has been in the dumpster for the last 5 years.

I think by not dipping into the FA market heavily is actually a smart thing to do. Think about all the teams that "win free agency" each year. Where does it get them? Nowhere. As for free agent offensive lineman, the classes have been pretty weak as of late.

[Texas Vike]

https://www.vikings.com/video/zimmer-di ... lus-his-co

Listen to Zimmer in his presser after yesterday's game. At 1:25, a reporter asks if he ever thinks about replacing Cousins when he has a day like yesterday, and throws 3 interceptions in a half. He answers curtly, "No," and feels no obligation to expound on the answer. This is what angers me about Zimmer. In this instance, he acts like the reporter was absurd for asking the question.

How do you NOT think about going with another QB? Kirk Cousins himself said in his presser that he should be replaced, if he keeps stinking liking he has. The answer Zimmer is avoiding is this: "We haven't really put a competitive player in the QB2 spot and we have overpaid for Cousins, so we will roll with him regardless of how poorly he plays".