49ers Post Game

[J. Kapp 11]

Here's a good scouting report of Kirk from 8 years ago. Looks like Kirk had the same issues back when he was at MSU.

What's the saying about expecting different results?

He almost appears stiff in the pocket as if he’s not comfortable working it from side to side or stepping into pressure. It’s not as if Cousins avoided punishment in this game, but he moves in the pocket like someone who has never danced before.

breakdown with pics:
QB Kirk Cousins: Footwork and Pocket Management by MATT WALDMAN MARCH 8, 2012


He's never going to change. If the Vikings want to reach the next level, it's time for a change. I don't want 4 more years of this.

There it is. A much better, more detailed analysis of what I said earlier. He doesn't know how to escape pressure. He's willing to take a hit while he delivers the ball, but he doesn't know how to avoid the hit in the first place.

Against the 49ers, he had a number of plays where a little pocket presence would have given him the chance to complete a ball downfield. He just didn't execute. When your line is struggling against a really good pass rush, a quarterback needs to have ways to help them out. Kirk just doesn't. Consequently, he looks great in practice but struggles in games where there's pressure.

[CharVike]

I don't know how you be so sure about that. I know Keenum takes a lot of abuse here, but let's not pretend that ALL he dis was throw ONE miracle throw in a playoff game. Vikings were 13-3 with him that year. And even though they had a good defense, they were also putting points on the board with him. And Bridgewater also won his games with the Saints this year. So it's one thing to say that they are not elite QB's, but they both have proved that they can win.

"We don't make the playoffs" with two QBs who we made the playoffs with. One made it with a significantly worse team than the one we had this year. One made it with a better team, but that better team earned a first round bye.

That guy cracks me up.

Teddy will go to another team this year. We can assume that he will drive them to the playoffs just like he did the Saints? Keenum did lead us to the playoffs that has already been proven. We had a dam good season. He beat the Pack twice. I can't remember the last time we did that. He owned them. Cousins lost twice this year. He also beat the Bears twice. Cousins lost once. The Steelers beat him to a pulp but they had a good team. He lost to the Panthers who were a wild card team. He struggle against the top teams some. Plus he won a playoff game. But maybe he will go to another team and start and they will make the playoffs. I doubt it but you never know.

[fiestavike]

I know Keenum and Teddy aren't the answer. We don't make the playoffs with those two.

I don't know how you be so sure about that. I know Keenum takes a lot of abuse here, but let's not pretend that ALL he dis was throw ONE miracle throw in a playoff game. Vikings were 13-3 with him that year. And even though they had a good defense, they were also putting points on the board with him. And Bridgewater also won his games with the Saints this year. So it's one thing to say that they are not elite QB's, but they both have proved that they can win.

The Vikings also managed to have the #1 3rd down conversion offense that year, and Keenum was among the league best in making plays despite pressure, all while playing behind a horrible offensive line. Part of that was going to Thielen and Diggs when they were 1 on 1, even when they weren't open. They were both near the top of the league in making contested catches. None of this is to say that Keenum was the answer at QB, but that he did some things very well. Some of the things he did very well REALLY MATTER when it comes to winning football games. We can see that very clearly because our current QB does not do some of those same things particularly well, and despite the fact the he is excellent in some other areas, it still matters. Most everyone who has some criticism of Cousins would readily admit the many areas where he is a better QB that Keenum. Those areas matter. The inverse is also true. This shouldn't be controversial.

[CharVike]

I don't know how you be so sure about that. I know Keenum takes a lot of abuse here, but let's not pretend that ALL he dis was throw ONE miracle throw in a playoff game. Vikings were 13-3 with him that year. And even though they had a good defense, they were also putting points on the board with him. And Bridgewater also won his games with the Saints this year. So it's one thing to say that they are not elite QB's, but they both have proved that they can win.

The Vikings also managed to have the #1 3rd down conversion offense that year, and Keenum was among the league best in making plays despite pressure, all while playing behind a horrible offensive line. Part of that was going to Thielen and Diggs when they were 1 on 1, even when they weren't open. They were both near the top of the league in making contested catches. None of this is to say that Keenum was the answer at QB, but that he did some things very well. Some of the things he did very well REALLY MATTER when it comes to winning football games. We can see that very clearly because our current QB does not do some of those same things particularly well, and despite the fact the he is excellent in some other areas, it still matters. Most everyone who has some criticism of Cousins would readily admit the many areas where he is a better QB that Keenum. Those areas matter. The inverse is also true. This shouldn't be controversial.

At the end of the day we are stuck with Cousins another year and then we can switch to another guy. Maybe we find a guy in the draft this year. That will be ideal. One year behind Cousins then it's his. Otherwise just get a guy and see what he can do. It could be worse or maybe better. Who knows.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

Keenum is another topic. He doesn't have a history of being remotely good other than in 2017, so I have no reason to believe his success would have continued here.

The 2017 team is the only remotely good team that he played on. Both Keenum and Bridgewater have won when surrounded by a good team. No reason for me to believe that either won of them wouldn't have made the throws against SF that Cousins didn't even attempt.

[Dames]

Keenum is another topic. He doesn't have a history of being remotely good other than in 2017, so I have no reason to believe his success would have continued here.

The 2017 team is the only remotely good team that he played on. Both Keenum and Bridgewater have won when surrounded by a good team. No reason for me to believe that either won of them wouldn't have made the throws against SF that Cousins didn't even attempt.

I can see why you think that, and maybe he makes those throws. But, based on his history, it's just as possible, maybe even likely that we wouldn't even be in the playoffs if Keenum played the whole season. His interception rate was the lowest it's ever been in 2017 and his QBR rating was almost 30 points higher than any other year in his career. I loved him in 2017 too, but it's more likely he regressed than continue that success, regardless of the team around him.

In hindsight, it would have been interesting to know though.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

The 2017 team is the only remotely good team that he played on. Both Keenum and Bridgewater have won when surrounded by a good team. No reason for me to believe that either won of them wouldn't have made the throws against SF that Cousins didn't even attempt.

I can see why you think that, and maybe he makes those throws. But, based on his history, it's just as possible, maybe even likely that we wouldn't even be in the playoffs if Keenum played the whole season. His interception rate was the lowest it's ever been in 2017 and his QBR rating was almost 30 points higher than any other year in his career. I loved him in 2017 too, but it's more likely he regressed than continue that success, regardless of the team around him.

In hindsight, it would have been interesting to know though.

I just happen to be one of those who feels that you aren't LUCKY for a whole year. I can see being lucky for a few games, or even a stretch of games, but not a whole year. That tells me there was a reason for his success that year. Quality receivers, the system he was playing in, etc. . What ever the reason was, it worked that year, and they decided to go in a different direction. I believe that if you take Cousins, Keenum, and Bridgewater, and shuffle them among their existing teams, the results among the teams wouldn't have been much different. Would Cousins have won more games in Washington than Keenum did while he was playing? Would he have gone undefeated in NO when Brees was injured like Bridgewater did? Would Keenum or Bridgewater have lost more games in Minnesota? Yes, It would be interesting to know.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Yeah, the OL needs to improve based on that performance against SF, so does the QB. Pretending that position is fine because it is hard to find a great QB and would take some luck to improve it, isn't going to win a SB.

SF has shown us the blueprint. I call Grap and Cousins even. SF knew they couldn't hand the team over to him. We can't hand the team over to our guy. IMO we need a better D.

I think that's exactly it. Offensively, SF has a better OL and better TE. We win with WRs and RB. QBs are even, may even give a slight edge to Cousins.

However, this entire story of SF this year sounds VERY similar to the Vikings in 2017. When you have the #1 defense in the NFL or top 3 even, you're going to have success regardless of who your QB is. As long as your offense is decent enough to do their job and not put the defense in bad positions, you're going to have success. Look at our offense in 2017. We had 2 stud WRs, below average OL, 2 backup RBs, an aging Rudy, a bum journeyman QB, and most importantly an OC that adapted his players. You put that offense on a team with a middling to below average defense and they'd be lucky to hit 8-8.

Guys want to talk about the 2017 offense, it's the defense that carried the weight. Similar to SF this year. SFs offense is good enough and execute with the talent they have but it's the defense that's the heart of this team

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

SF has shown us the blueprint. I call Grap and Cousins even. SF knew they couldn't hand the team over to him. We can't hand the team over to our guy. IMO we need a better D.

I think that's exactly it. Offensively, SF has a better OL and better TE. We win with WRs and RB. QBs are even, may even give a slight edge to Cousins.

However, this entire story of SF this year sounds VERY similar to the Vikings in 2017. When you have the #1 defense in the NFL or top 3 even, you're going to have success regardless of who your QB is. As long as your offense is decent enough to do their job and not put the defense in bad positions, you're going to have success. Look at our offense in 2017. We had 2 stud WRs, below average OL, 2 backup RBs, an aging Rudy, a bum journeyman QB, and most importantly an OC that adapted his players. You put that offense on a team with a middling to below average defense and they'd be lucky to hit 8-8.

Guys want to talk about the 2017 offense, it's the defense that carried the weight. Similar to SF this year. SFs offense is good enough and execute with the talent they have but it's the defense that's the heart of this team

I realize this is simplistic, but if the defense would have given up 22 points a game, which was what a middle of the road defense gave up that year, and you apply that to every game, it only causes 2 more losses making them 11-5.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Keenum is another topic. He doesn't have a history of being remotely good other than in 2017, so I have no reason to believe his success would have continued here.

The 2017 team is the only remotely good team that he played on. Both Keenum and Bridgewater have won when surrounded by a good team. No reason for me to believe that either won of them wouldn't have made the throws against SF that Cousins didn't even attempt.

Ugh, I've said this before and I'll say it again, Denver had a solid roster when Keenum got there. I'm not sure why guys try to ignore this. Lindsey/Freeman, Sanders/Thomas/Sutton, a decent OL and an average defense. Keenum had enough around him to win. Bridgewater was simply surrounded by a hall of fame RB and a decent defense. I've already proved that Teddy was carried by AP.

And is there seriously no reason for you to believe Teddy Bridgewater of all QBs wouldnt have made those throws "Cousins didnt attempt? Really? The most conservative QB in the game of football in Teddy and you think he's going to take shots downfield against the 49ers defense when Nick Bosa is sniffing his jock strap? You got a better chance of hitting the lottery.

Actually better yet, what did you see from Teddy, EVER in his career, where you were like "oh yeah dude, Teddy would've definitely been slinging it downfield vs. SF"? I reallyyyy want to know the answer to that. Again he had the lowest depth of target of any QB in the entire NFL and he's been that way his whole career. Simply Teddy getting praise for something he hardly ever did. Cousins was deadly downfield all season and guys complain but Teddy is the most conservative QB in the NFL, MUCH more conservative than Cousins and you're saying that he would've attempted shots downfield that Cousins didnt? I'm lost?

I can see we are going right back to where we were last offseason. Talking about two, now backup QBs that are no longer on our team and how they are a better option than Cousins. Well, they arent. There is a reason they are backups. I said last year that Keenum will slowly make his way to the bench again, sure enough there he sat this year. Teddy couldnt crack the Jets, only has a hope and prayer Brees retires, or will go somewhere else to be a backup. Cousins is on a guaranteed contract for at least this year, they arent benching him, neither QB is better than he is, they will not be back on our team. Move on from these guys!!!

[StumpHunter]

The 2017 team is the only remotely good team that he played on. Both Keenum and Bridgewater have won when surrounded by a good team. No reason for me to believe that either won of them wouldn't have made the throws against SF that Cousins didn't even attempt.

Ugh, I've said this before and I'll say it again, Denver had a solid roster when Keenum got there. I'm not sure why guys try to ignore this. Lindsey/Freeman, Sanders/Thomas/Sutton, a decent OL and an average defense. Keenum had enough around him to win. Bridgewater was simply surrounded by a hall of fame RB and a decent defense. I've already proved that Teddy was carried by AP.

And is there seriously no reason for you to believe Teddy Bridgewater of all QBs wouldnt have made those throws "Cousins didnt attempt? Really? The most conservative QB in the game of football in Teddy and you think he's going to take shots downfield against the 49ers defense when Nick Bosa is sniffing his jock strap? You got a better chance of hitting the lottery.

Actually better yet, what did you see from Teddy, EVER in his career, where you were like "oh yeah dude, Teddy would've definitely been slinging it downfield vs. SF"? I reallyyyy want to know the answer to that. Again he had the lowest depth of target of any QB in the entire NFL and he's been that way his whole career. Simply Teddy getting praise for something he hardly ever did. Cousins was deadly downfield all season and guys complain but Teddy is the most conservative QB in the NFL, MUCH more conservative than Cousins and you're saying that he would've attempted shots downfield that Cousins didnt? I'm lost?

I can see we are going right back to where we were last offseason. Talking about two, now backup QBs that are no longer on our team and how they are a better option than Cousins. Well, they arent. There is a reason they are backups. I said last year that Keenum will slowly make his way to the bench again, sure enough there he sat this year. Teddy couldnt crack the Jets, only has a hope and prayer Brees retires, or will go somewhere else to be a backup. Cousins is on a guaranteed contract for at least this year, they arent benching him, neither QB is better than he is, they will not be back on our team. Move on from these guys!!!

Sucks that Cousins couldn't have changed the talking points this season. Maybe next year?

[fiestavike]

Sucks that Cousins couldn't have changed the talking points this season. Maybe next year?

Unfortunately, the Vikings aren't going anywhere with Cousins. I just hope they don't re-sign hoim this offseason, but if I had to bet, they will. Life of a Viking's fan.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Ugh, I've said this before and I'll say it again, Denver had a solid roster when Keenum got there. I'm not sure why guys try to ignore this. Lindsey/Freeman, Sanders/Thomas/Sutton, a decent OL and an average defense. Keenum had enough around him to win. Bridgewater was simply surrounded by a hall of fame RB and a decent defense. I've already proved that Teddy was carried by AP.

And is there seriously no reason for you to believe Teddy Bridgewater of all QBs wouldnt have made those throws "Cousins didnt attempt? Really? The most conservative QB in the game of football in Teddy and you think he's going to take shots downfield against the 49ers defense when Nick Bosa is sniffing his jock strap? You got a better chance of hitting the lottery.

Actually better yet, what did you see from Teddy, EVER in his career, where you were like "oh yeah dude, Teddy would've definitely been slinging it downfield vs. SF"? I reallyyyy want to know the answer to that. Again he had the lowest depth of target of any QB in the entire NFL and he's been that way his whole career. Simply Teddy getting praise for something he hardly ever did. Cousins was deadly downfield all season and guys complain but Teddy is the most conservative QB in the NFL, MUCH more conservative than Cousins and you're saying that he would've attempted shots downfield that Cousins didnt? I'm lost?

I can see we are going right back to where we were last offseason. Talking about two, now backup QBs that are no longer on our team and how they are a better option than Cousins. Well, they arent. There is a reason they are backups. I said last year that Keenum will slowly make his way to the bench again, sure enough there he sat this year. Teddy couldnt crack the Jets, only has a hope and prayer Brees retires, or will go somewhere else to be a backup. Cousins is on a guaranteed contract for at least this year, they arent benching him, neither QB is better than he is, they will not be back on our team. Move on from these guys!!!

Sucks that Cousins couldn't have changed the talking points this season. Maybe next year?

I’m pretty sure he changed plenty of talking points this season. Put plenty of narratives to bed. Proved many of the haters wrong. And we lose a divisional game on the road to the 1 seed with arguably the best defense in the nfl and now he’s back to being everyone’s whipping boy. And somehow we’re still talking about two backups, a one year wonder and a guy that gets praise for doing next to nothing for the franchise. No less neither will be on the team any time in the near future or at all. Nobody is saying Cousins is the next coming. But I take cousins any day of the week over either of those two. And it’s a 100% guarantee he does not get cut and he’s not getting traded. He’s our QB next year and nobody is going to change that.

I get if they don’t extend him and want to draft one early but I also get if they extend him to drop the cap hit this year. There is good that can come out of it and there can be bad. It is what it is. But regardless I’m beyond sick of hearing about two backup QBs that no longer have any ties to this team and at this point have zero chance of ever taking this team anywhere

[Pondering Her Percy]

Sucks that Cousins couldn't have changed the talking points this season. Maybe next year?

Unfortunately, the Vikings aren't going anywhere with Cousins. I just hope they don't re-sign hoim this offseason, but if I had to bet, they will. Life of a Viking's fan.

So that means we have to probably keep an extra $7 million against our cap if we don’t extend him. Which probably means we have to cut another high paid veteran.

I mean I’m leaning towards extending him because that gives him another year in this system, saves us money and gives us opportunity to draft a QB maybe next year and use early picks on filling holes along the DL, defensive backfield and OL. I mean with as much talent and big contracts we have on this team, I’m not sure what we’re looking for at QB where anyone thinks we can still keep all these guys around and so on. Say we never traded for Bradford and drafted Mahomes or Watson. They are going into their 4th year and are going to need a contract that’s going to cost a lot more than cousins did. Not saying I wouldn’t want those guys because I would (although I think Watson is a little overrated) but they’d be putting this team in just as big (actually bigger) of a predicament than cousins contract is. We’re past the point of being able to have a below average QB run this team and get away with it like Keenum did. This defense is nowhere near what Keenum had. We’d be having to pay big money for a QB at some point along the way and lose out on big name players.

And I’ll respond to your PM at some point. Had a response typed earlier but lost it

[StumpHunter]

Sucks that Cousins couldn't have changed the talking points this season. Maybe next year?

I’m pretty sure he changed plenty of talking points this season. Put plenty of narratives to bed. Proved many of the haters wrong.

Clearly...