Mike Zimmer should be fired!!!

[mykyle]

mn has bears tough game
dolphins no easy walk
Detroit winnable but they have similiar team to us

[PurpleMustReign]

So for those of you wanting Zim fired for not winning a SB, what team has underperformed with him as coach?

I am sure he has input in who is drafted, but the final decisions on not upgrading the Oline and overpaying for Bradford before overpaying for Cousins are on Rick. This is not McCarthy who has underperformed with one of the best QBs ever. I know you all wish that it is the HC who is the problem, because replacing him is pretty easy and has no cap or draft implications, but what if the players he is coaching just aren’t that good? What if a different HC has this team at 4 wins this year, or 10 last year with a first round loss instead of a NFCCG loss? What if Zim is masking problems with personnel in the regular season with great coaching, problems that rear their ugly heads against good teams that scheme and coaching just can’t overcome without the talent?

Most people would argue that it takes a great QB to win consistently in the NFL, when has Zim ever had that great QB? Teddy had the promise but was just a first and second year guy under Zim. Bradford is a bad QB who the Skins have passed over to sign some guy who hasn’t thrown a pass in 7 seasons, Keenum was a journeyman backup and Cousins has never won more than 9 games in three seasons.

Seriously? That's what you're getting from this thread? People want him fired because he hasn't win a super bowl?

[PurpleMustReign]

Well when anyone trades for Khalil Mack or is dumb enough to trade him (Gruden), you're defense is going to drastically get better. That's like trading for Aaron Donald. But Nagy fell into a good spot. He fell into a second year QB with a few weapons, decent players on D and made a blockbuster trade....point being, Mike Zimmer did just about that same thing in his 2nd year. Took the division out from under GB. This team wouldnt have what is has right now if it wasnt for Mike Zimmer.

What does it have? A 6-6-1 record in a season following a humiliating championship loss. That's hardly satisfactory or something to fear losing.

We could've easily been a bottom feeder like we were in 2013 if we didnt hire Zim.

... or they could have made the playoffs again

... or they could have hired someone else and perhaps even won a Super Bowl by now.

You write about him as if his accomplishments are extraordinary and they aren't.

Sorry but going on 5 years of having him isnt long enough for my liking. Especially when you have 2 division titles, 2 playoff berths (about to be 3) and an NFC championship berth. In 5 years. Very little coaches do that. Period.

Let's see if they actually make the playoffs before crediting them for the accomplishment.

5 years is a long time in NFL terms, not a brief audition. For example, look at what John Harbaugh did in Baltimore. He took over a team that had 5 wins, won 11 in his first season and lost in the conference championship. The Ravens went to the playoffs in each of the next 4 years, winning at least one playoff game each year and finally culminating in a Super Bowl win in Harbaugh's 5th year. That is how a coach indicates he's capable of winning it all.

Hell look what Jim Harbaugh did in SF. They were horrible for years and he had them one play from a Super Bowl win very quickly. But thst doesn't count because it's a point for our argument.
I'm not satisfied with just improvement. I dknt get why Zimmer is held on some pedestal that makes him a God. I swear if he went 0-16 and lost every game by 100 points people would still hold him high and blame literally everyone else.

[Mothman]

Hell look what Jim Harbaugh did in SF. They were horrible for years and he had them one play from a Super Bowl win very quickly.

True. He got that team on track quickly and although he didn't win a Super Bowl, it was apparent within his first two years that it was a realistic possibility. It doesn't always become apparent that quickly but there's usually a strong indication within the first 5 years, if not an actual championship. I get the argument that reaching a conference championship could be considered such an indication but the blowout loss really undermines that.

I'm not satisfied with just improvement. I dknt get why Zimmer is held on some pedestal that makes him a God. I swear if he went 0-16 and lost every game by 100 points people would still hold him high and blame literally everyone else.

I just don't see what he's accomplished that's irreplaceable. I don't understand the fear-based arguments about how bad it could be without him. I get it on a basic level: sometimes teams end up bad and stay bad for a long time. Mediocrity is a lot more fun than becoming the post-expansion Browns but fear of failure isn't a good enough reason to keep a coach.

I think the Vikings have only had two coaches in their entire history that didn't at least make the playoffs once (Van Brocklin and Steckel, who only lasted a year). Most of those coaches won at least one playoff game. The only Vikes coaches since Van Brocklin who haven't had their team in a championship game are Steckel, Tice and Frazier. The team's history suggests they'll be okay if they move on from Zimmer as long as they don't do something really stupid.

[PurpleMustReign]

Like clockwork, the Vikings make the Nfc championship game every 11 years... 1976, 1987, 1998, 2009. Will it happen in 2020?

The frustrating thing is the Vikings have generally speaking been a good team. Their dry spells are usually short lived (I remember a Stat that said they've never had a losing record three years in a row? Something like that), and they seem to come out of nowhere with a good season. But I've never seen a team where their doors of opportunity close so fast and so hard.

[Mothman]

Like clockwork, the Vikings make the Nfc championship game every 11 years... 1976, 1987, 1998, 2009. Will it happen in 2020?

That's pretty weird!

The frustrating thing is the Vikings have generally speaking been a good team. Their dry spells are usually short lived (I remember a Stat that said they've never had a losing record three years in a row? Something like that), and they seem to come out of nowhere with a good season. But I've never seen a team where their doors of opportunity close so fast and so hard.

They sure don't open 'em for long, do they? At least not since the late '60s and early '70s and that's ancient history now (I should know).

[mykyle]

i always thought some of there mediocrity was the dome, when i watched games there, the air felt stale, and the lighting was bad hard even to see the ball. Maybe us is better

[StumpHunter]

So for those of you wanting Zim fired for not winning a SB, what team has underperformed with him as coach?

I am sure he has input in who is drafted, but the final decisions on not upgrading the Oline and overpaying for Bradford before overpaying for Cousins are on Rick. This is not McCarthy who has underperformed with one of the best QBs ever. I know you all wish that it is the HC who is the problem, because replacing him is pretty easy and has no cap or draft implications, but what if the players he is coaching just aren’t that good? What if a different HC has this team at 4 wins this year, or 10 last year with a first round loss instead of a NFCCG loss? What if Zim is masking problems with personnel in the regular season with great coaching, problems that rear their ugly heads against good teams that scheme and coaching just can’t overcome without the talent?

Most people would argue that it takes a great QB to win consistently in the NFL, when has Zim ever had that great QB? Teddy had the promise but was just a first and second year guy under Zim. Bradford is a bad QB who the Skins have passed over to sign some guy who hasn’t thrown a pass in 7 seasons, Keenum was a journeyman backup and Cousins has never won more than 9 games in three seasons.

Seriously? That's what you're getting from this thread? People want him fired because he hasn't win a super bowl?

His horrible coaching took a journeyman backup to the NFCCG and that wasn't good enough. So logically that means people want him fired because he hasn't won a SB.

This team was horrible before he got here, he has had one of the worst QB situations in the NFL over 5 seasons due to injuries, horrible trades made by his GM, and bad signings made by his GM. His GM has never given him a good Oline, despite spending a ton in FAs on that unit, and the side of the football he is the most involved in has been the strength of the team. If you want to rip on him for not being more involved in the offense, fine, that is a valid complaint, I personally just don't think the talent is there.

[StumpHunter]

So for those of you wanting Zim fired for not winning a SB, what team has underperformed with him as coach?

If you mean which Vikings team, this 2018 incarnation comes to mind. Ditto for the 2016 Vikes. On the other hand, they overachieved last season and he deserves some credit for that.

I don't want Zimmer fired for not winning a Super Bowl. I want to see him replaced for the same reason I eventually wanted Burns, Green and Childress replaced: I don't think he will win a Super Bowl. Ditto for Spielman. I figure once you've made that calculation, why keep the coach and GM?

Obviously, not everyone gets to that point at the same time, if ever. I've simply seen no indication in 5 years that the pairing of Spielman and Zimmer is likely to yield a championship. If I believed otherwise, I'd be all for keeping both of them. Of course, it's not my call anyway...

He overachieved in 2016. 8-8 despite losing your starting QB, starting RB who was the focus of the offense, starting LT (who wasn't actually that good), backup LT, and numerous other injuries on the line is pretty good.

This year feels more like he is underachieving because he overachieved last season. I think there is some under performance this year, not on D, but on the Oline and at QB. I don't think Bill Bellicheck gets this team to a SB though, I really don't.

Agree on Spielman being an issue, don't agree on Zim. He might be the defensive minded Dennis Green, ignoring the offensive side of the ball to improve the D the way Denny ignored the D to improve the O, but unlike Denny, Zim seems to be willing to give up control in an area that isn't his strength. As long as the right personnel are in place and the right OC is hired, that can work and will be better than any other coach we hire to replace him.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Seriously? That's what you're getting from this thread? People want him fired because he hasn't win a super bowl?

His horrible coaching took a journeyman backup to the NFCCG and that wasn't good enough. So logically that means people want him fired because he hasn't won a SB.

This team was horrible before he got here, he has had one of the worst QB situations in the NFL over 5 seasons due to injuries, horrible trades made by his GM, and bad signings made by his GM. His GM has never given him a good Oline, despite spending a ton in FAs on that unit, and the side of the football he is the most involved in has been the strength of the team. If you want to rip on him for not being more involved in the offense, fine, that is a valid complaint, I personally just don't think the talent is there.

Agree on Zim. Not as much on Spielman. Spielman could have done better with the OL yes, but the rest of the talent...Spielman deserves just as much or more credit than Zim. Spielman was the one that drafted hunter, cook, Diggs, Kendricks, waynes, Alexander, etc. And has brought in guys like Joseph, Richardson, Murray, Thielen, harris, etc. I like Spielman. Always been a backer of his. Has he done well with the OL? No. But I think he’s done an exceptional job bringing in talent since Zim has been here

As for Zim, I agree bringing his team led by Case Keenum to a conference championship is pretty remarkable if you ask me. Continuous success is hard to come by unless you’re New England. I mean look at guys like dan Quinn that make the SB, nearly win it and then completely fizzle out. There are so many examples out there. Using the harbaughs is one way to look at it. But I know there are coaches out there that have been to or won a SB later in their coaching career.

I guess my question is, what if Zim made a great call firing flip and we make it back to the conference championship and let’s say, lose by a FG. Are we still questioning Zimmer? What if he made a SB this year but got beat by 20? What if we lose in the divisional round? Chances are, the guy is heading back to the playoffs. And has obviously ran into some adversity this year. Again, if he pulled a Doug marrone season, lost control of his players and was dead last in the division do we look into firing him? Absolutely we should look into it. But right now? Sorry, just doesn’t make any sense to me. Cousins just got here, this defense is in its prime, we now have a new OC, I want to see how this plays out. If it was so obvious that he should possibly be fired, it would be discussed all over the place. Not just on VMB

[Mothman]

He overachieved in 2016. 8-8 despite losing your starting QB, starting RB who was the focus of the offense, starting LT (who wasn't actually that good), backup LT, and numerous other injuries on the line is pretty good.

This year feels more like he is underachieving because he overachieved last season. I think there is some under performance this year, not on D, but on the Oline and at QB. I don't think Bill Bellicheck gets this team to a SB though, I really don't.

I didn't expect Mike Zimmer to get this year's team to the Super Bowl either.

Agree on Spielman being an issue, don't agree on Zim. He might be the defensive minded Dennis Green, ignoring the offensive side of the ball to improve the D the way Denny ignored the D to improve the O, but unlike Denny, Zim seems to be willing to give up control in an area that isn't his strength. As long as the right personnel are in place and the right OC is hired, that can work and will be better than any other coach we hire to replace him.

We obviously see it differently.

[mykyle]

you dont pick up big name free agent qb if you were not aiming for superbowl, they made the championship game last year

[PurpleMustReign]

A plumber has three pipes to fix in a house. He does a great job on the first two, but doesn't use the same technique on the third one that he does on the first two. The third pipe leaks and eventually he needs to come and fix it again. He wraps up the first pipe again, and throws a bandaid on the third pipe. A week later, same problem. The third pipe is leaking. He wraps up the second pipe this time and with his leftover materials, patches the third pipe. Lo and behold, the third pipe leaks again a short time later. He comes out a fourth time, replaces the first pipe, and then wraps the third pipe with a towel. You guessed it, the third pipe begins to leak. He replaces both the first and second pipes with the top of the line materials, and they are built to last forever. He puts a new towel on the third pipe.
Is he a good plumber?

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

As for Zim, I agree bringing his team led by Case Keenum to a conference championship is pretty remarkable if you ask me. Continuous success is hard to come by unless you’re New England. I mean look at guys like dan Quinn that make the SB, nearly win it and then completely fizzle out. There are so many examples out there. Using the harbaughs is one way to look at it. But I know there are coaches out there that have been to or won a SB later in their coaching career.

It's obvious that you and I see Keenum in a different light. You give Zimmer the credit for winning instead of Keenum himself. I watched every game last year and I saw a much better quarterback than you saw. Sometimes players aren't what they are perceived to be. Instead they are what they perform as. All year the media and I am pretty sure Zimmer himself waited for him to fail, but he proved them wrong. Well, I guess he really didn't. Ignore his performance and chalk it up to luck. But when Cousins plays bad, the big book of excuses gets taken off the shelf.

[Pondering Her Percy]

As for Zim, I agree bringing his team led by Case Keenum to a conference championship is pretty remarkable if you ask me. Continuous success is hard to come by unless you’re New England. I mean look at guys like dan Quinn that make the SB, nearly win it and then completely fizzle out. There are so many examples out there. Using the harbaughs is one way to look at it. But I know there are coaches out there that have been to or won a SB later in their coaching career.

It's obvious that you and I see Keenum in a different light. You give Zimmer the credit for winning instead of Keenum himself. I watched every game last year and I saw a much better quarterback than you saw. Sometimes players aren't what they are perceived to be. Instead they are what they perform as. All year the media and I am pretty sure Zimmer himself waited for him to fail, but he proved them wrong. Well, I guess he really didn't. Ignore his performance and chalk it up to luck. But when Cousins plays bad, the big book of excuses gets taken off the shelf.

Let's put it this way, I've watched Case Keenum pretty close since 2015. I've said this before but my father is a huge rams fan and has the Sunday ticket on 5 TVs in his man cave. Outside of the Vikings, there isnt a team I follow more than the Rams. I've seen Case Keenum through most of his career. He was NEVER a good QB up until last year. And after last year ended, I thought maybe he could continue being a good qb. Just maybe but I've seen enough of him that the odds were probably against it. That's pretty much what Zimmer's thought process was given what he said to the media in the offseason. If he went into Denver this year and had a similar year as last year numbers wise or even slightly below, yeah maybe we made a mistake. But he has been BRUTAL. Give all the excuses you want for him in Denver but it's been said more than once, he's been one of the worst starting QBs in the league this year and had GOOD WRs for 9 weeks and a top 10 running game. His accuracy is in the tank as he's spraying it all over the field, he's been below 200 passing yards in 5 games this year, he's had some solid wins this year but also had some terrible losses (NYJ, SF), has taken just as many sacks as the "immobile" Kirk Cousins, has FAR less rushing attempts and rushing yards than Cousins does for how "mobile" Keenum is suppose to be, etc.

Bottom line is, Keenum is back to his same old inconsistencies and overall fairly poor QB play like he's done most of his career. I'm not sitting here trying to give "excuses" for Cousins. I said before, he's made plenty of his own mistakes. But I'm looking for OVERALL consistency if I'm Spielman or Zim this offseason. CAREER consistency. That is Cousins by a landslide. Keenum has never, EVER done anything in his career until last season and is now right back to mediocrity. Did Keenum play great last year? Yeah. But do I trust Case Keenum to do it again? Hell no. Nobody in the right mind should and he himself is showing everyone that. I know Cris Carter can be a little out there at times but he is right on this one, if Keenum was here UNDER John DeFillippo throwing 40 times a game and not establishing a run game, he would have about 2 wins right now yes. If he was under a coordinator that knew how to balance an offense, I'm sure he'd be ok. But the same goes for Kirk Cousins. I'm sure if he was under the same OC that could balance an offense like Pat Shurmur, he'd be playing pretty damn well too.

You mention not giving credit to Keenum for winning but giving it to Zimmer. Let's be honest here, if it wasnt for Case Keenum, that Saints game would have been in the bag and there wouldnt be a need for a miracle. Case Keenum (and the special teams) single handedly put NO back in that game. Everyone tries to blame "Zim and his defense" but think about it. Keenum threw an awful "pop fly" (like he did just about once a game or more and would either get lucky on or throw a pick) which got picked off and brought into the red zone. He was completely shut down after that for the most part. Then our special teams allows a blocked punt that put them in the red zone. That's not on Zim and his defense. That's other factors putting their defense in a bad position. And in the end, a miracle is what got Case Keenum his first playoff win also known as, luck. Then the following game, Keenum looks great on the opening drive and then boom, pick 6 and sucks the air right out of the team. Did the defense play good that game? Hell no. But Keenum was innaccurate, couldnt move the ball and turned it over 3 times. Any QB that does that, is setting up your team for a loss. Has Cousins had those games in his career? Sure. But this is also why I'm not giving Case Keenum much credit more so in the postseason than anything. We should have been a one and done if it wasnt for luck and a main cause of that was Case Keenum. And it then showed the follow game in Philly. I'm giving Zim and Shurmur more credit for making it there with a backup all year and adapting to your strengths. Something Flip never did.