Mike Zimmer should be fired!!!

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

I always hate to be too critical of coaching because there are so many things going on behind the scenes that we don't see, unless there are OBVIOUS things that I see over and over.

The one big red flag for me was the Bears game. Coaching staff had an extra week to prepare for the team that was in first place in your division, and has a rookie QB. All I've heard about is how Zimmer's defenses can be so difficult on QB's especially the blitzing schemes. But they seemed to look very unprepared for that game, and hardly blitzed?

As a side note, I also can't stand his press conferences, but what I think about him personally doesn't mean squat if they win.

[Pondering Her Percy]

If Zim was the root of the problem I doubt he’s in the nfc championship last year.

Like Childress? Or was that because Favre was calling the offense for him? If that's the case, wouldn't that mean Zimmer was only successful because Shurmur was calling the offense last season?

The same talk was going on after starting 5-0 and crapping the bed in 2016 after getting crushed with injuries. If we fired him then, I doubt we are in the nfc championship the following year and have nearly as good of a defense under a different scheme. Last year he was the man in everyone’s eyes. He made a great decision keeping shurmur and nearly took a team to the SB with a backup QB. Yeah this year has definitely been a step backwards but he made the right move firing flip. Let’s see how that plays out before we jump to any conclusions

I still think Zimmer is a good coach and I'm not ready for him to be fired either. He's starting to get there though. I don't want this to be a Cincinnati/Marvin Lewis situation. He's got a winning record overall. Goes to the playoffs about half the time. Been there 15 years because there are worse coaches ...

I keep seeing Childress' name thrown around with Zimmer's on here. Those two coaches are nowhere near the same nor are they in the same situation. Most of the players on that '09 team were a few hits away from retirement. The young players on that team were very limited. Zimmer and Spielman have built this team for the future. Childress' team was nowhere near that. Zimmer got to the NFC championship with a backup QB and backup RBs. Childress had a hall of fame QB and a hall of fame RB in his prime. Mike Zimmer has won over the players on this team IMO. That never happened with Chilly.

Also, we are so far away from a "Marvin Lewis" situation. Mike Zimmer has been here for 5 years. He has made the playoffs two of those times. Probably 3 after this season. He's lost first round and been to an NFC championship. He took a team that was practically a rebuild and turned them into a playoff team. Firing a guy after 5 years when he's made the playoffs 3 of them, and nearly a SB, couldnt be more ridiculous IMO. Firing him would cause this defense to take a giant step back and who knows what a new HC could do to the current players we have. We could get a guy like Gruden that wants to trade everyone that doesnt fit his system. Zimmer needs to play out through 2020 just like the majority of our big time players. Saying you dont want a Marvin Lewis situation isnt fair IMO. Marvin Lewis NEVER won a playoff game. Let's see what Zim can do in the playoffs the next few years.

[Cliff]

I keep seeing Childress' name thrown around with Zimmer's on here. Those two coaches are nowhere near the same nor are they in the same situation. Most of the players on that '09 team were a few hits away from retirement. The young players on that team were very limited. Zimmer and Spielman have built this team for the future. Childress' team was nowhere near that. Zimmer got to the NFC championship with a backup QB and backup RBs. Childress had a hall of fame QB and a hall of fame RB in his prime. Mike Zimmer has won over the players on this team IMO. That never happened with Chilly.

I think people bring him up because their results are pretty similar. Well ... Childress' team at least almost won the NFCC. It felt like they put up a fight anyway. What did it take, 5 turnovers in that game to lose it? Zimmer's NFCC team got *stomped*.

I don't know what the locker room was like (or is like now). I do think Zimmer is a better coach. Childress isn't even in the NFL anymore so it's kind of an easy thing to say. My bigger point is that coaches absolutely get fired after they have success. Childress had just won 1st place in the NFC North two years in a row in 2008 he did it with freakin' Gus Frerotte so I'm thinking it wasn't all Favre in 2009.

Also, we are so far away from a "Marvin Lewis" situation. Mike Zimmer has been here for 5 years. He has made the playoffs two of those times. Probably 3 after this season. He's lost first round and been to an NFC championship. He took a team that was practically a rebuild and turned them into a playoff team. Firing a guy after 5 years when he's made the playoffs 3 of them, and nearly a SB, couldnt be more ridiculous IMO. Firing him would cause this defense to take a giant step back and who knows what a new HC could do to the current players we have. We could get a guy like Gruden that wants to trade everyone that doesnt fit his system. Zimmer needs to play out through 2020 just like the majority of our big time players. Saying you dont want a Marvin Lewis situation isnt fair IMO. Marvin Lewis NEVER won a playoff game. Let's see what Zim can do in the playoffs the next few years.

Zimmer has one playoff win under his belt and it took a play at the very end that had such a low probability of succeeding that it is referred to as a "miracle".

We aren't there yet, no. I don't want to get there though and I could see it happening. The fear is that he sustains just enough success to keep his job - just like Lewis.

If he can figure out how to run an offense he can be a really good coach but until he fills that in his teams will always be incomplete.

[Mothman]

I keep seeing Childress' name thrown around with Zimmer's on here. Those two coaches are nowhere near the same nor are they in the same situation. Most of the players on that '09 team were a few hits away from retirement. The young players on that team were very limited. Zimmer and Spielman have built this team for the future. Childress' team was nowhere near that. Zimmer got to the NFC championship with a backup QB and backup RBs. Childress had a hall of fame QB and a hall of fame RB in his prime.

Yes, and Childress' team lost that Championship in overtime while Zimmer's team was destroyed. You keep referring to that championship like it's an impressive achievement, not a game in which the Vikings were thoroughly out-coached and embarrassed or a game they were lucky to even be in because it took a play that's literally referred to as a miracle to keep them from blowing a home playoff game in the 4th quarter.

Zimmer's being compared to Childress because, like Childress, he lost an NFCC in his 4th season and has followed it up with a dysfunctional fifth season. He's being compared with Childress because their basic achievements over the same period of time are relatively similar but mainly, it's because they're both disappointing. Everybody understands there are real differences between the two.

Also, we are so far away from a "Marvin Lewis" situation. Mike Zimmer has been here for 5 years. He has made the playoffs two of those times. Probably 3 after this season. He's lost first round and been to an NFC championship. He took a team that was practically a rebuild and turned them into a playoff team. Firing a guy after 5 years when he's made the playoffs 3 of them, and nearly a SB...

38-7.
Thirty. Eight. To. Seven.
"Nearly a Super Bowl" is gilding an entire field of lilies.

He hasn't made the playoffs a third time yet. Don't count your chickens...

Firing him would cause this defense to take a giant step back and who knows what a new HC could do to the current players we have. We could get a guy like Gruden that wants to trade everyone that doesnt fit his system.

... or a guy like Gruden who took Tampa Bay all the way to a Super Bowl in his first season with the team after replacing Dungy. He didn't do so well after that but this "fear" angle people keep pushing as an argument to retain Zimmer is silly. Sometimes coaches are replaced and things get worse but there are numerous examples of coaches being replaced and teams quickly getting better. We're watching that right now as the Bears head toward a likely division title and the Vikes, who were supposed to win that title, struggle.

[Mothman]

Zimmer has one playoff win under his belt and it took a play at the very end that had such a low probability of succeeding that it is referred to as a "miracle".

Ha! I just posted the same thing and I hadn't seen your post yet.

We aren't there yet, no. I don't want to get there though and I could see it happening. The fear is that he sustains just enough success to keep his job - just like Lewis.

... and that's the "Marvin Lewis" situation. It doesn't matter that Zimmer has a playoff win and Lewis doesn't. The idea isn't to have a perfect comparison. It could also be called a "Dennis Green situation". The point is we don't want to see the Vikes end up investing a decade or more into a head coach and come away empty.

If he can figure out how to run an offense he can be a really good coach but until he fills that in his teams will always be incomplete.

Yes, and even if he does figure that out, if he gets to the postseason again, his defense needs to deliver. They can't blow a big lead as they did against NO or get crushed like they did against Philly. If Zimmer's in MN primarily because of his defensive prowess, that needs to show up on the field when it matters most.

[StumpHunter]

So for those of you wanting Zim fired for not winning a SB, what team has underperformed with him as coach?

I am sure he has input in who is drafted, but the final decisions on not upgrading the Oline and overpaying for Bradford before overpaying for Cousins are on Rick. This is not McCarthy who has underperformed with one of the best QBs ever. I know you all wish that it is the HC who is the problem, because replacing him is pretty easy and has no cap or draft implications, but what if the players he is coaching just aren’t that good? What if a different HC has this team at 4 wins this year, or 10 last year with a first round loss instead of a NFCCG loss? What if Zim is masking problems with personnel in the regular season with great coaching, problems that rear their ugly heads against good teams that scheme and coaching just can’t overcome without the talent?

Most people would argue that it takes a great QB to win consistently in the NFL, when has Zim ever had that great QB? Teddy had the promise but was just a first and second year guy under Zim. Bradford is a bad QB who the Skins have passed over to sign some guy who hasn’t thrown a pass in 7 seasons, Keenum was a journeyman backup and Cousins has never won more than 9 games in three seasons.

[Mothman]

So for those of you wanting Zim fired for not winning a SB, what team has underperformed with him as coach?

If you mean which Vikings team, this 2018 incarnation comes to mind. Ditto for the 2016 Vikes. On the other hand, they overachieved last season and he deserves some credit for that.

I don't want Zimmer fired for not winning a Super Bowl. I want to see him replaced for the same reason I eventually wanted Burns, Green and Childress replaced: I don't think he will win a Super Bowl. Ditto for Spielman. I figure once you've made that calculation, why keep the coach and GM?

Obviously, not everyone gets to that point at the same time, if ever. I've simply seen no indication in 5 years that the pairing of Spielman and Zimmer is likely to yield a championship. If I believed otherwise, I'd be all for keeping both of them. Of course, it's not my call anyway...

[Crax]

I don't want Zimmer fired for not winning a Super Bowl. I want to see him replaced for the same reason I eventually wanted Burns, Green and Childress replaced: I don't think he will win a Super Bowl. Ditto for Spielman.

I've been done with Spielman and would have been fine if he left with Frazier as he was the one who hired him. Do you think it's worth bringing a new GM in to work with Zimmer or is the full house cleaning the right way forward?

[Mothman]

I've been done with Spielman and would have been fine if he left with Frazier as he was the one who hired him. Do you think it's worth bringing a new GM in to work with Zimmer or is the full house cleaning the right way forward?

Personally, I'd lean toward the house-cleaning. A new GM usually wants to hire his own head coach. Plus, I just don't see enough upside with Zimmer as the head coach.

[Pondering Her Percy]

I keep seeing Childress' name thrown around with Zimmer's on here. Those two coaches are nowhere near the same nor are they in the same situation. Most of the players on that '09 team were a few hits away from retirement. The young players on that team were very limited. Zimmer and Spielman have built this team for the future. Childress' team was nowhere near that. Zimmer got to the NFC championship with a backup QB and backup RBs. Childress had a hall of fame QB and a hall of fame RB in his prime. Mike Zimmer has won over the players on this team IMO. That never happened with Chilly.

I think people bring him up because their results are pretty similar. Well ... Childress' team at least almost won the NFCC. It felt like they put up a fight anyway. What did it take, 5 turnovers in that game to lose it? Zimmer's NFCC team got *stomped*.

I don't know what the locker room was like (or is like now). I do think Zimmer is a better coach. Childress isn't even in the NFL anymore so it's kind of an easy thing to say. My bigger point is that coaches absolutely get fired after they have success. Childress had just won 1st place in the NFC North two years in a row in 2008 he did it with freakin' Gus Frerotte so I'm thinking it wasn't all Favre in 2009.

Also, we are so far away from a "Marvin Lewis" situation. Mike Zimmer has been here for 5 years. He has made the playoffs two of those times. Probably 3 after this season. He's lost first round and been to an NFC championship. He took a team that was practically a rebuild and turned them into a playoff team. Firing a guy after 5 years when he's made the playoffs 3 of them, and nearly a SB, couldnt be more ridiculous IMO. Firing him would cause this defense to take a giant step back and who knows what a new HC could do to the current players we have. We could get a guy like Gruden that wants to trade everyone that doesnt fit his system. Zimmer needs to play out through 2020 just like the majority of our big time players. Saying you dont want a Marvin Lewis situation isnt fair IMO. Marvin Lewis NEVER won a playoff game. Let's see what Zim can do in the playoffs the next few years.

Zimmer has one playoff win under his belt and it took a play at the very end that had such a low probability of succeeding that it is referred to as a "miracle".

We aren't there yet, no. I don't want to get there though and I could see it happening. The fear is that he sustains just enough success to keep his job - just like Lewis.

If he can figure out how to run an offense he can be a really good coach but until he fills that in his teams will always be incomplete.

Yeah coaches get fired after success when they DRASTICALLY bomb a season. For example Doug Marrone who is 4-9 this year and dead last in their division (who also still hasnt been fired yet). No less he has now lost control of his players. Or Brad Childress (who was beyond committed for Favre) went 6-10, had a midseason debacle with Randy Moss and it was CLEAR the players gave up on him. No less his draft picks that year were horrid (outside of Everson in the 4th).

You dont get fired when you were in the NFC championship one year and the following year you still make the playoffs. Atlanta went to the SB and barely made the playoffs the next year, did Dan Quinn get fired? Eagles won the SB but are going to miss the playoffs this year? Is anyone talking about firing Peterson? McCarthy went to an NFC championship in 2014 and 2016, did he get fired right after? No. He did this year because him and Rodgers obviously had issues. But if no locker room issues are coming out, players are controlled, players are singing praises over him and he's still successful, he's not getting fired. Especially this year. If he goes 5-11 next year, yeah he could be fired. But I can guarantee it's not happening this year. Which is why I'm still baffled we're discussing it.

[Pondering Her Percy]

So for those of you wanting Zim fired for not winning a SB, what team has underperformed with him as coach?

If you mean which Vikings team, this 2018 incarnation comes to mind. Ditto for the 2016 Vikes. On the other hand, they overachieved last season and he deserves some credit for that.

I don't want Zimmer fired for not winning a Super Bowl. I want to see him replaced for the same reason I eventually wanted Burns, Green and Childress replaced: I don't think he will win a Super Bowl. Ditto for Spielman. I figure once you've made that calculation, why keep the coach and GM?

Obviously, not everyone gets to that point at the same time, if ever. I've simply seen no indication in 5 years that the pairing of Spielman and Zimmer is likely to yield a championship. If I believed otherwise, I'd be all for keeping both of them. Of course, it's not my call anyway...

That's a ballsy move for an owner to go off of a hunch like that and fire his HC and GM. Which is why it isnt going to happen. I mean I guess I feel you didnt even give Zim a shot. Because how can you make that assumption after year 2? He took a team, rebuilt it, went 7-9 then to 11-5 and made the playoffs along with winning the division. If that doesnt say "yeah this guy could win a SB for us, I dont know what does Jim

[Pondering Her Percy]

I keep seeing Childress' name thrown around with Zimmer's on here. Those two coaches are nowhere near the same nor are they in the same situation. Most of the players on that '09 team were a few hits away from retirement. The young players on that team were very limited. Zimmer and Spielman have built this team for the future. Childress' team was nowhere near that. Zimmer got to the NFC championship with a backup QB and backup RBs. Childress had a hall of fame QB and a hall of fame RB in his prime.

Yes, and Childress' team lost that Championship in overtime while Zimmer's team was destroyed. You keep referring to that championship like it's an impressive achievement, not a game in which the Vikings were thoroughly out-coached and embarrassed or a game they were lucky to even be in because it took a play that's literally referred to as a miracle to keep them from blowing a home playoff game in the 4th quarter.

Zimmer's being compared to Childress because, like Childress, he lost an NFCC in his 4th season and has followed it up with a dysfunctional fifth season. He's being compared with Childress because their basic achievements over the same period of time are relatively similar but mainly, it's because they're both disappointing. Everybody understands there are real differences between the two.

Also, we are so far away from a "Marvin Lewis" situation. Mike Zimmer has been here for 5 years. He has made the playoffs two of those times. Probably 3 after this season. He's lost first round and been to an NFC championship. He took a team that was practically a rebuild and turned them into a playoff team. Firing a guy after 5 years when he's made the playoffs 3 of them, and nearly a SB...

38-7.
Thirty. Eight. To. Seven.
"Nearly a Super Bowl" is gilding an entire field of lilies.

He hasn't made the playoffs a third time yet. Don't count your chickens...

Firing him would cause this defense to take a giant step back and who knows what a new HC could do to the current players we have. We could get a guy like Gruden that wants to trade everyone that doesnt fit his system.

... or a guy like Gruden who took Tampa Bay all the way to a Super Bowl in his first season with the team after replacing Dungy. He didn't do so well after that but this "fear" angle people keep pushing as an argument to retain Zimmer is silly. Sometimes coaches are replaced and things get worse but there are numerous examples of coaches being replaced and teams quickly getting better. We're watching that right now as the Bears head toward a likely division title and the Vikes, who were supposed to win that title, struggle.

Well when anyone trades for Khalil Mack or is dumb enough to trade him (Gruden), you're defense is going to drastically get better. That's like trading for Aaron Donald. But Nagy fell into a good spot. He fell into a second year QB with a few weapons, decent players on D and made a blockbuster trade....point being, Mike Zimmer did just about that same thing in his 2nd year. Took the division out from under GB. This team wouldnt have what is has right now if it wasnt for Mike Zimmer. We could've easily been a bottom feeder like we were in 2013 if we didnt hire Zim. Sorry but going on 5 years of having him isnt long enough for my liking. Especially when you have 2 division titles, 2 playoff berths (about to be 3) and an NFC championship berth. In 5 years. Very little coaches do that. Period. I'm annoyed at myself that I'm even involved in this thread right now

[Mothman]

That's a ballsy move for an owner to go off of a hunch like that and fire his HC and GM. Which is why it isnt going to happen. I mean I guess I feel you didnt even give Zim a shot. Because how can you make that assumption after year 2?

Year 2?

I gave him a shot. I had doubts about him from the start but I didn't just write him off. I just think there were warning signs pretty early on that what we've seen thus far is basically what we would get.

He took a team, rebuilt it, went 7-9 then to 11-5 and made the playoffs along with winning the division. If that doesnt say "yeah this guy could win a SB for us, I dont know what does Jim

I need to see more than that, like decisively winning a playoff game, being competitive when you get to the championship, etc.
I could go on. Those are just examples to add on to everything else that's been said already.

There are plenty of coaches who take over a losing team and get to a winning record or win a division title. That's not necessarily a strong indication they have what it takes to take the major step upward and win it all. Leslie Frazier took over a complete mess mid-season in 2010, dealt with a disastrous season in 2011 in which he had virtually no chance to win and then bounced back with a 10 win playoff season the following year. If I'm not mistaken that's still the biggest single season turnaround in Vikings history. The Vikes didn't win the division but that's not the point. The point is it's an accomplishment comparable to Zimmer taking over a losing team and winning the division in 2015. However, it still wasn't an indication, on it's own, that Frazier has what it takes to win a Super Bowl as a head coach. Both examples just show that these guys can coach. They're pretty good. They knew enough to get things moving in a positive direction and accomplish something and that's to their credit.

Part of the problem for me is Zimmer is tied to Spielman and vice versa. As long as Zim's in MN, I suspect Spielman will be the GM and as long as that's true, I don't see the Vikes winning it all.

[Mothman]

Well when anyone trades for Khalil Mack or is dumb enough to trade him (Gruden), you're defense is going to drastically get better. That's like trading for Aaron Donald. But Nagy fell into a good spot. He fell into a second year QB with a few weapons, decent players on D and made a blockbuster trade....point being, Mike Zimmer did just about that same thing in his 2nd year. Took the division out from under GB. This team wouldnt have what is has right now if it wasnt for Mike Zimmer.

What does it have? A 6-6-1 record in a season following a humiliating championship loss. That's hardly satisfactory or something to fear losing.

We could've easily been a bottom feeder like we were in 2013 if we didnt hire Zim.

... or they could have made the playoffs again

... or they could have hired someone else and perhaps even won a Super Bowl by now.

You write about him as if his accomplishments are extraordinary and they aren't.

Sorry but going on 5 years of having him isnt long enough for my liking. Especially when you have 2 division titles, 2 playoff berths (about to be 3) and an NFC championship berth. In 5 years. Very little coaches do that. Period.

Let's see if they actually make the playoffs before crediting them for the accomplishment.

5 years is a long time in NFL terms, not a brief audition. For example, look at what John Harbaugh did in Baltimore. He took over a team that had 5 wins, won 11 in his first season and lost in the conference championship. The Ravens went to the playoffs in each of the next 4 years, winning at least one playoff game each year and finally culminating in a Super Bowl win in Harbaugh's 5th year. That is how a coach indicates he's capable of winning it all.

[mykyle]

minnesota doesnt make playoffs this year sorry, t