Film observations of Vikings: Week 6 vs. Lions

[Pondering Her Percy]

Yeah, our offense being dominated and held to three garbage time points probably does have a lot to do with the injuries.

But giving one unit credit and ignoring injuries, and then using injuries as an excuse for another seems pretty hypocritical.

oh my

Our defense is currently:

8th in total yards allowed
6th vs the pass
20th vs the run
20th in total points allowed (which was LARGELY skewed by the GB game that Ponder fell apart in)
13th in interceptions
15th in sacks

.....if you remember we were LAST IN TOTAL DEFENSE last year. We have a drastically improved defense from last year. I know it's hard for you to say that or say anything positive for that matter. Granted, I love Zimmer and he has done some very good things for this defense but how can you honestly sit there and say that part of the reason our defense is so much better is because of who SPIELMAN brought in. Not saying being in the top 15 in total defense in the end goal but to jump from dead last to top 15 is a HUGE jump no matter what way you look at it.

[Demi]

I'm not. I think Zimmer was a good hire and has had a big impact on the defense. And will continue to. Despite the personnel he has thanks to Spielman. The lack of talent on defense compared to a lot of other teams.

And the comment was saying how our offense struggles in part because of injuries, but the Lions struggles because of our defense...not because of their own injuries.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Despite the personnel he has thanks to Spielman. The lack of talent on defense compared to a lot of other teams.

Zimmer is good and all but no matter what you think or say, if you have a top 15 defense against those teams we have played, you have to have talent. I don't give a crap who the coach is. A coach can't change a "talentless" defense (according to you) from dead last to top 15.

[Leafman]

oh my

Our defense is currently:

8th in total yards allowed
6th vs the pass
20th vs the run
20th in total points allowed (which was LARGELY skewed by the GB game that Ponder fell apart in)
13th in interceptions
15th in sacks

.....if you remember we were LAST IN TOTAL DEFENSE last year. We have a drastically improved defense from last year. I know it's hard for you to say that or say anything positive for that matter. Granted, I love Zimmer and he has done some very good things for this defense but how can you honestly sit there and say that part of the reason our defense is so much better is because of who SPIELMAN brought in. Not saying being in the top 15 in total defense in the end goal but to jump from dead last to top 15 is a HUGE jump no matter what way you look at it.

And ... 4th in forcing 3-and-outs.

Agree, it is a very impressive and massive improvement from last year on the defensive side of the ball.

LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

[Pondering Her Percy]

And ... 4th in forcing 3-and-outs.

Agree, it is a very impressive and massive improvement from last year on the defensive side of the ball.

LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

[BGM]

It IS an impressive improvement, but how much of it is implementing a scheme that better fits the players the Vikings have? There is some talent, but I can point to only two or three players that are consistently above average: Harrison Smith, Anthony Barr (maybe not consistent, but showing impressive flashes as a rookie), and... Yes, there are players who have improved, but none have risen to the level of those two, IMO. I believe those two are extremely talented players. The rest are solid to below average. But Zimmer's scheme seems to allow them to play to whatever strengths they have, plus they play aggressively. That leaves them open to a big play once in a while, but boy oh boy, when they succeed in shutting down an offense, it is a thing of beauty. And they are doing more stopping than not.

The weakness is their run D. From what Zimmer claims, it is a lack of gap discipline. If that is so, it is fixable.

See, it is valid to say that the talent level is below where it should be while applauding the strides forward the defense has made. In fact, defense an example of middling and stopgap players playing above their talent level. During the course of a season, that will be exploited, but I enjoy watching them improve. The thing is, mere improvement does not win championships. You need more talent that the Vikings have on that side of the ball to become dominant.

[Demi]

It IS an impressive improvement, but how much of it is implementing a scheme that better fits the players the Vikings have?

Exactly! Coaching is going to make a big difference. Look at Detroit or Tampa Bay. Two teams with very similar personnel from last year, one that went from a middle of the road defense, to a top defense. The other the opposite way. There are a lot of factors, but talent isn't one of them. They're both using very similar talent to last year!

[PurpleKoolaid]

And we are 2-4. In the cellar. If stats are what gets you off, fine. Wins are what I like to see, Even ones we don't 'deserve' it it. We are so due for a string of good luck.

[Pondering Her Percy]

And we are 2-4. In the cellar. If stats are what gets you off, fine. Wins are what I like to see, Even ones we don't 'deserve' it it. We are so due for a string of good luck.

LOOK WHO WE HAVE PLAYED!!! God's honest truth, what did you HONESTLY expect our record to be going into week 7 with the 3rd youngest team in the NFL?? I can almost guarantee it was probably 2-4 or less. Add injuries and suspensions in there and it probably should have been even worse.

[Mothman]

Exactly! Coaching is going to make a big difference. Look at Detroit or Tampa Bay. Two teams with very similar personnel from last year, one that went from a middle of the road defense, to a top defense. The other the opposite way. There are a lot of factors, but talent isn't one of them.

Of course it's factor. It's a significant factor. Why do you think they made move after move to modify their defensive roster this offseason?

Smith is one of the two best players on the defense and he missed over half of the season last year. Barr has made a significant impact and he wasn't even on the team last year. They were weak up the middle of the defense last season and they addressed that with new talent (Joseph) and a returning player in Brinkley who, while not special by any means, is a better MLB than anyone they had in that position last season. Adding Munnerlyn enabled them to get Robinson out of the slot and back to a more natural position, where he's playing well. Rhodes showed improvement over the course of his rookie season and that's continuing this year. Some of that is coaching and some of that is just the natural arc of progressive improvement you want and expect to see from a first round rookie. Ditto for Floyd.

The defense is better because they made positive changes at both the coaching and personnel levels, not just one or the other.

[Pondering Her Percy]

Of course it's factor. It's a significant factor. Why do you think they made move after move to modify their defensive roster this offseason?

Smith is one of the two best players on the defense and he missed over half of the season last year. Barr has made a significant impact and he wasn't even on the team last year. They were weak up the middle of the defense last season and they addressed that with new talent (Joseph) and a returning player in Brinkley who, while not special by any means, is a better MLB than anyone they had in that position last season. Adding Munnerlyn enabled them to get Robinson out of the slot and back to a more natural position, where he's playing well. Rhodes showed improvement over the course of his rookie season and that's continuing this year. Some of that is coaching and some of that is just the natural arc of progressive improvement you want and expect to see from a first round rookie. Ditto for Floyd.

The defense is better because they made positive changes at both the coaching and personnel levels, not just one or the other.

I agree completely. The coaching staff has made a huge difference as well. For some to just exclude the GM and what he has brought in is pretty unfair

[Leafman]

I agree completely. The coaching staff has made a huge difference as well. For some to just exclude the GM and what he has brought in is pretty unfair

Yep. But it's quick, it's easy, and it's catchy. Organizational failures require scapegoats, and those scapegoats are never allowed to receive credit for organizational successes, even if deserved.

LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

[Pondering Her Percy]

Yep. But it's quick, it's easy, and it's catchy. Organizational failures require scapegoats, and those scapegoats are never allowed to receive credit for organizational successes, even if deserved.

LEAFMAN THE PURPLE FAN

Very true