Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

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Would you trade Adrian Peterson if the price was right

Yes, sometime before 2014 season starts
12
18%
Yes, sometime after 2014 season, before 2015 season
3
5%
No, not within the next 2 years, keep him here, wait and reevaluate after a couple years
20
30%
Never, AD must retire a Viking
30
45%
Other
1
2%
 
Total votes: 66

Webbfann
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Re: Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

Post by Webbfann »

Slick Rick wrote: This isn't any better than your last post. Which QBs are "elite". I would take Peterson over almost any of the QBs in this league, several of them being considered "elite" by people who like to throw the term around. It is a fallacy, there's no other way to describe people who think that every QB that plays well and wins SBs as elite. The only real consistent statistical giant for all QBs is Peyton Manning and maybe Aaron Rodgers. Tom Brady and Drew Brees have both had periods where they were more like how we consider Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger.

Do Super Bowl teams usually have great QBs, or do great QBs usually play for Super Bowl caliber teams?
In the last 30 years, running backs have been Super Bowl MVP 3 times. Yippee. Even Walter Payton didn't win MVP, and he was a much more complete back than AP. But in the same 30 years, QBs have been MVP 16 times. Deserved or not, QBs seem to be getting more than an even-steven share of the credit for their "SB Caliber teams". Does that answer your question?

Not all of those QBs were what I would call "elite", but its a pretty good list of pretty good qbs. Clearly quarterbacks have had a bigger impact on the big game than running backs in recent history. And if you look at the names on the list-Brees, Brady, Favre, Montana, Aikman, Manning & Manning, Rodgers, there are some darned good QBs there. If we can get to a SB, Adrian is clearly the kind of RB who could be MVP. But in 7 years he hasn't gotten us anywhere near a SB. Who did? Favre, a QB. Meanwhile the Mannings and Brees and Rodgers have been there 4 times in those same 7 years, and not only were the MVPs once they got there, they are a large part of the reason their teams got there. To his credit, AP did help us get to the playoffs during his unlikely to be duplicated, super-human streak.

But the smart GM would trade Peterson for any one of those qbs (except Brees cuz I don't like him, and Brady and P Manning are too long in the tooth). Nothing against AP, but they have greater chance to bring us a SB than an MVP running back. But nobody is stupid enough to make that trade. And hopefully we don't have to. Hopefully Teddy will get his name on that list.
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Re: Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

Post by Mothman »

Webbfann wrote:In the last 30 years, running backs have been Super Bowl MVP 3 times. Yippee. Even Walter Payton didn't win MVP, and he was a much more complete back than AP. But in the same 30 years, QBs have been MVP 16 times. Deserved or not, QBs seem to be getting more than an even-steven share of the credit for their "SB Caliber teams". Does that answer your question?

Not all of those QBs were what I would call "elite", but its a pretty good list of pretty good qbs. Clearly quarterbacks have had a bigger impact on the big game than running backs in recent history. And if you look at the names on the list-Brees, Brady, Favre, Montana, Aikman, Manning & Manning, Rodgers, there are some darned good QBs there. If we can get to a SB, Adrian is clearly the kind of RB who could be MVP. But in 7 years he hasn't gotten us anywhere near a SB. Who did? Favre, a QB. Meanwhile the Mannings and Brees and Rodgers have been there 4 times in those same 7 years, and not only were the MVPs once they got there, they are a large part of the reason their teams got there. To his credit, AP did help us get to the playoffs during his unlikely to be duplicated, super-human streak.
... and during the 2009 season, and during the 2008 season...

You're diminishing Peterson's contribution to the 2009 season WAY too much. The Vikings got close to the Super Bowl with Favre. Favre did not get the Vikings close to a Super Bowl. There's a difference. Peterson was as much a part of that 2009 team as Favre. He had 18 TDs and over 1800 combined yards of offense that year!
Webbfann
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Re: Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

Post by Webbfann »

Mothman wrote: ... and during the 2009 season, and during the 2008 season...

You're diminishing Peterson's contribution to the 2009 WAY too much. The Vikings got close to the Super Bowl with Favre. Favre did not get the Vikings close to a Super Bowl. There's a difference. Peterson was as much a part of that 2009 team as Favre. He had 18 TDs and over 1800 combined yards of offense that year!
Of course Adrian contributed a lot, he always does, but he wasn't the difference. We didn't get close in 2008 with Peterson and w/o Favre. We didn't get close in 2010 with Peterson and w/o Favre (just a washed up old wheezer that wore #4). We only got close in 2009 with Favre playing very well.

Of course Favre was the difference.

In 2012, Adrian was the main reason we made the playoffs. But he hasn't and wont get us to the super bowl in the absence of a great QB, though a great QB could get us there without him. And I'm not suggesting we trade him.
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Re: Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

Post by mosscarter »

you people all need to face reality. after this season AP will basically be a 15 million dollar a year liability at 30. either one of two things happens. he takes a salary cut, or we get rid of him (which we should if he won't be reasonable). i love AP, but in today's game decent running backs are a dime a dozen. AP is worth 15 million in his prime, but not at 30. i really think this is the last year he wears purple.
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Re: Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

Post by VikingPaul73 »

After this season, when AD rushes for 2500 yards, shatters the single season rushing record and leads the Vikings to their first ever Super Bowl win, we will look back on this thread and all laugh our a$$es off!!!

And PB and I will be partying in Vegas with our winnings and our #28 jerseys!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

Post by The Breeze »

I'm lost at sea on a boat called 'The Off-Season'....udder madness
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Re: Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

Post by Mothman »

Webbfann wrote:Of course Adrian contributed a lot, he always does, but he wasn't the difference. We didn't get close in 2008 with Peterson and w/o Favre. We didn't get close in 2010 with Peterson and w/o Favre (just a washed up old wheezer that wore #4). We only got close in 2009 with Favre playing very well.
They got one game closer with Favre in 2009 and that was one of the 7 years you mentioned so they've been close to the Super Bowl with Peterson anyway.
Of course Favre was the difference.
No, he made a difference but he was still part of a team and that team wouldn't have advanced to the conference championship if they hadn't been good enough, collectively, to do it. You're trying to give Favre more credit than he deserves and attempting to use him to diminish Peterson's importance to the Vikings.
In 2012, Adrian was the main reason we made the playoffs. But he hasn't and wont get us to the super bowl in the absence of a great QB, though a great QB could get us there without him. And I'm not suggesting we trade him.
No single player makes a team a Super Bowl contender. No single player gets a team to (or near) the Super Bowl. A great QB isn't getting the Vikes anywhere they can't go with Peterson unless they build a team good enough to get the job done. It's not Peterson's job to "get us to the Super Bowl". It's not any single player's job. Is QB a more significant position than RB? Sure, but that's not an argument against retaining a great running back, it's simply an argument for finding a great QB.
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Re: Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

Post by Eli »

fiestavike wrote:Why not just enjoy the moment of having this great and exciting RB on our roster and spending the totality of his prime with the Vikings.
Because some people are so bored that they'll argue about anything. Even a rumor.
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Re: Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

Post by Mothman »

fiestavike wrote: Nice!

Why not just enjoy the moment of having this great and exciting RB on our roster and spending the totality of his prime with the Vikings.
Because there's a salary cap and it's a passing league and QBs win Super Bowls and defense wins championships and running backs are a dime a dozen and they expire at age 30 what has having AD on the team ever done for the Vikings? They still don't have a ring! :mrgreen:
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Re: Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

Post by Webbfann »

Mothman wrote: They got one game closer with Favre in 2009 and that was one of the 7 years you mentioned so they've been close to the Super Bowl with Peterson anyway.
No, he made a difference but he was still part of a team and that team wouldn't have advanced to the conference championship if they hadn't been good enough, collectively, to do it. You're trying to give Favre more credit than he deserves and attempting to use him to diminish Peterson's importance to the Vikings.
No single player makes a team a Super Bowl contender. No single player gets a team to (or near) the Super Bowl. A great QB isn't getting the Vikes anywhere they can't go with Peterson unless they build a team good enough to get the job done. It's not Peterson's job to "get us to the Super Bowl". It's not any single player's job. Is QB a more significant position than RB? Sure, but that's not an argument against retaining a great running back, it's simply an argument for finding a great QB.
Ok. Whatever. We were a contender with Favre and weren't w/o him, but he wasn't the difference.
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Re: Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

Post by Mothman »

Webbfann wrote:Ok. Whatever. We were a contender with Favre and weren't w/o him, but he wasn't the difference.
It's a simple point so I'm not sure what you're missing. :confused: Favre helped them them get to the 2009 championship game but his contribution doesn't trump Peterson's and shouldn't be used to minimize it.
Last edited by Mothman on Sun May 25, 2014 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

Post by Mothman »

fiestavike wrote:Frankly, those are all arguments that I believe have some degree of validity. if we were starting out in a vacuum, and each of the 32 teams was starting from scratch, sure most teams aren't going to start with AD. They are going to start with a QB. And most teams would probably start with a younger and less talented RB than a more talented RB at 30. And most teams wouldn't pay much for a RB and would prioritize other positions. But we aren't in a vacuum. We are where we are at this moment and we happen to have a generational player at RB. His actual value to this team is much greater than his market value, so there is no sense in moving him.

If we arrive at the point where his production slips and he won't restructure or they need his money to re-sign younger players then the Vikings and Peterson can part ways. Until then what's the point of the conversation? He is a valuable weapon, a great teammate and an exciting player to watch. Let's just enjoy watching him until he is no longer a Viking.
Agreed!
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Re: Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

Post by Demi »

Favre helped them them get to the 2009 championship game but his contribution doesn't trump Peterson's and shouldn't be used to minimize it.
While you minimize Favre's contribution. :confused:
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Re: Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

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Demi wrote: While you minimize Favre's contribution. :confused:
Fine, I'll take the bait: How am I minimizing Favre's contribution? He upgraded their QB position, helped them win 2 more regular season games than they did a season earlier, helped them win a playoff game and gave them the best season they've had from a QB since at least 2004. It's not minimizing his contribution to point out that it still took a team effort for the Vikings to get to the conference championship and that Favre didn't just magically lift them up from a sub-.500 season and carry them all the way to the brink of the Super Bowl on his Hall of Fame-bound shoulders. He joined to a playoff-caliber team and made them better. Is that an unfair assessment?
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Re: Report: Vikes looking to "get rid of" AP (AD)

Post by Just Me »

If it's the "QB" that has the most impact, why did Denver lose the Super Bowl? (Manning>Wilson). Could it be that a stout defense coupled with a good rushing attack (4th best in the NFL) contributed in a team effort that helped the Seahawks not just defeat the best QB in the game, but demolish the Broncos on the way to their Super Bowl Victory? (BTW - Denver was 15th in rushing).

Let's even go back to 2009 (that 'magical' year of Favre). Our defense was 6th (in points allowed). That may have contributed ("at least slightly" :wink: ) to our record that year. In 2008 we had a 6th ranked defense with Frerotte and won two less games (10-6). Basically, if I oversimplify the argument (which some are doing by implying/suggesting that Peterson's performance "doesn't impact the team as much") I can say that a HOF QB year is nets us only two extra victories per year over Gus Frerotte/Tarvaris Jackson. If that doesn't minimize the QB position I don't know what does... :lol:

In reality the interaction is more complex. Yes, good QB play is critical to success, no one is arguing that. But so is a good rushing attack. If a great QB could overcome all other deficiencies on the team, then Payton Manning would have more SB rings than Eli, but he doesn't. If I thought the Vikings would be a better team by trading AD, then I would be all for it. I fail to see how reducing our effectiveness in a critical part of the game (rushing) would make us a better team. If it gets to the point that we can't sign critical defensive players (or others) because of the money we are paying Peterson, then I will be the first to lead the charge, but we are not there yet. Until then, I plan on enjoying watching a future HOF running back tearing up other teams on Sunday. :v):
I've told people a million times not to exaggerate!
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