The brilliance of Rick Spielman on Day One

[S197]

What about 2011? Ponder was 100% on him. Before that when he didn't have control, we drafted two rookie of the years in Percy and AD.

As far as the 2012/2013 drafts. Some guys have shown flashes. But are you really ready to draw any conclusions? Kalil had a damn good rookie year, but regressed last year. Smith the same, part of which was probably injuries. We had 3 1st round picks last year, all of which had up and down moments, no where near enough of either to go either way.

7 first round picks in 3 years.
In 2 or 3 years we damn well better be fighting for control of the division. With a new coaching staff, including a defensive and offensive veteran who've shown they can coach. Including improving players, if Spielman got them the right guys, they sure as #### are going to be able to use them.

We'll see, but right now I find it hard to judge him either positively or negatively after what he's done since 2011. But with his track record before that, and the teams record up until this season, the needle has to be pointing down for anyone looking at it objectively. From here on out it might change, but it's entirely possible it won't, and we'll be looking for a new GM, and possibly coaching staff, in two or three years...

It looks promising so far, but looking and being are two entirely different things...and if anyone hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt it's Spielman.

2011 was a unique year due to the new CBA. You have to remember that Favre was gone and there was NO free agency. At the time of the draft we didn't even know if there would be a free agency or heck if there would even be a season! So the amount of uncertainty was significantly greater that year than most, which may have resulted in the staff and front office "reaching" for a QB. Now you could argue they never should have put themselves in that position in the first place, and I would agree, but there is some context in that year that goes above and beyond subsequent years that should be considered.

[Purple bruise]

2011 was a unique year due to the new CBA. You have to remember that Favre was gone and there was NO free agency. At the time of the draft we didn't even know if there would be a free agency or heck if there would even be a season! So the amount of uncertainty was significantly greater that year than most, which may have resulted in the staff and front office "reaching" for a QB. Now you could argue they never should have put themselves in that position in the first place, and I would agree, but there is some context in that year that goes above and beyond subsequent years that should be considered.

Excellent points.

[King James]

I understand people thinking that Bridgewater should sit because they don't want him to be rushed and end up like Ponder. Bridgewater's situation is different from Ponder's. The lockout really put the Vikes in a bad situation. Luckily Bridgewater doesn't have to deal with any lockouts during his rookie campaign. Even that, Bridgewater is much better than Ponder was coming out of college. Look at Ponder's draft profile:

OVERVIEW
Ponder's a fit for a West Coast team that would allow him to use his good footwork and proficiency in the short passing game. Could become a starter if given time and decision making improves. Uses his feet to buy extra time, leave the pocket to throw, or take off and running for first downs. Exhibits the physical and mental toughness you like to see. Has enough arm strength but doesn't put elite zip on the ball and will try to fit it into too many tight spots downfield. Ponder has slowly climbed up boards, and he is almost certain to go in the second round.

ANALYSIS

STRENGTHS Ponder's very tight and sound in his drop. Accelerates quickly when escaping the pocket. Will make plays in the open field after tucking. Can buy time with his feet and keep his eyes downfield. Does a good job in the short passing game getting the ball out quickly with accuracy. Exhibits great leadership qualities and toughness.

WEAKNESSES Must improve his overall decision making and awareness. Will lock onto his first option and struggle to move through his progressions. Can appear lost when making incorrect pre-snap read. Takes too many chances and puts the ball in harms way too often. Doesn't possess good deep ball accuracy. Has an injury history.

Looking at his profile, the way he plays now is the same way he played in college. Stares down his 1st read, poor decision making, injury history, and etc. He was a projected 2nd round pick and was probably lower than that until his senior bowl performance. We all know that Bridgewater skill set is far more superior than this, atleast in the college level. Don't let Ponder scare you from thinking Bridgewater isn't ready to start day 1. Ponder should have have never started period because he has too many holes in his game to develop. Bridgewater on the other hand, is ready. I don't see anything Cassel and Ponder has over Bridgewater other than NFL experience that suggests that they are better fits to lead the offense than him. And I don't think NFL experience is enough to keep a rookie QB with more upside than your current two veteran QBs from starting.

[KSViking]

I think whoever gives you the best chance to win games starts. Im a Teddy fan, but if he isn't better than Cassel, he needs to develop until he is better than Cassel.

[PurpleHalo]

If you think that he is a great guy, then "degenerate" is not the word you were looking for. Clueless or incompetent seems to be what you were after.

I just think Fazier was a nice guy that wanted to please everyone. The nice guy thing worked for his buddy Dungy, but he had better football teams, especially in 2006 with Indy. All teams are different, some can thrive with that type of coach, some need a whip to be cracking and need to be told the truth that you are not getting it done. Frazier also took the fall for Ponder, and should have stood up and said I am not starting this QB anymore, I will start who I feel is right and if you don't like it fire me. I think most feel Frazier went along with the wishes of management, which is the wrong road, the coach is supposed to know best how to handle on the field stuff. Of course we don't know for sure how it all went down, we could all be totally off base. But to say Frazier is incompetent, is a little far fetched, I just think he didn't have the correct temperament for the job of head coach.

[Texas Vike]

I just think Fazier was a nice guy that wanted to please everyone. The nice guy thing worked for his buddy Dungy, but he had better football teams, especially in 2006 with Indy. All teams are different, some can thrive with that type of coach, some need a whip to be cracking and need to be told the truth that you are not getting it done. Frazier also took the fall for Ponder, and should have stood up and said I am not starting this QB anymore, I will start who I feel is right and if you don't like it fire me. I think most feel Frazier went along with the wishes of management, which is the wrong road, the coach is supposed to know best how to handle on the field stuff. Of course we don't know for sure how it all went down, we could all be totally off base. But to say Frazier is incompetent, is a little far fetched, I just think he didn't have the correct temperament for the job of head coach.

Just to clarify: no one called him incompetent. I simply pointed out to PHP that degenerate was not the word he was looking for, since he was also stating that he had no qualms with Frazier's moral character or Frazier as a person, which is what degenerate would imply. I suggested clueless or incompetent was perhaps the word he was looking for, based on the rest of his post's content.

OTOH, while I wouldn't use the word incompetent, I do not think Frazier excelled in some important areas of being a HC. I did not like how the defense got worse during his time as HC. I think he chose his coordinators poorly. I think Frazier will do a better job as DC in Tampa. Most importantly, I feel optimistic about our new coach and most of his coordinators. Transitioning from coordinator to coach is not easy; let's hope Zimmer figures it out.

[Funkytown]

Don't let Ponder scare you from thinking Bridgewater isn't ready to start day 1. Ponder should have never started period because he has too many holes in his game to develop.

What the? Do you honestly believe this? Why all the support for Ponder then? He shouldn't have started? He has too many holes to even develop? Is this for year one or eternity?

Anyways, I love Rick on draft day. He makes my trips up there worth it every time! He made my day last Thursday, and I love him for it!

[King James]

What the? Do you honestly believe this? Why all the support for Ponder then? He shouldn't have started? He has too many holes to even develop? Is this for year one or eternity?

Q: Do you honestly believe this?
A: Yes I do. Ponder was not ready. Why else would they get McNabb????????

Q:Why all the support for Ponder then?
A: Because I think with development Ponder can get better. Problems Ponder has coming out of college were his arm strength, trying to fit balls into tight spots too much, offense awareness/decision making, locking on his 1st read often thus struggling to read through his progressions, his pre-snap reads, bad deep ball accuracy, and injury. I know every player has his weakness but when things like offensive awareness and overall decision making are your weaknesses, you have to sit on the bench and improve. I just hate that he was put in a situation that he clearly wasn't ready to be put in. The guy wasn't even projected to go in the 1st round but Spielman pulled the trigger anyway, which is why Ponder is called a reach. I don't know what Spielman thought when he drafted Ponder. Maybe he outsmarted himself thinking that Ponder was going to be a surprise bloomer. Ponder is a good person. I just hate to see him go out like this. It just makes you wonder how he would've done if he didn't have to worry about the lockout and had a good coach like Norv Turner to coach him up.

Q:He shouldn't have started?
A:Not until he was probably developed. It doesn't even take a NFL coach to see that Ponder was a deer in headlights out there. I think he needed a year or two on the bench to really develop.

Q:He has too many holes to develop?
A: Into a starting QB, yes. As bad as I want him to start, he just doesn't posses that NFL arm to become a longterm starter. In college he depended on his feet to break for a 1st down if his 1st read wasnt open. Of course in the NFL players do a better job containing Ponder, since he can't throw a deep ball, he throws up terrible passes. What Turner can do is help with his accuracy and maybe how to go through his progressions more smoothly. I'm afraid his arm strength will hinder him from being for being anymore than a back-up.

Ponder still has my support though, whether he starts, back-up, 3rd string, or practice squad.

[PurpleKoolaid]

Im still not sold on Rickie. He was involved with the Vikes and their picks, long before 2012. Just look at the players we had/have. Some coaches could get talent out of that mess, Fraizer couldn't. Hopefully Rickie has figured it out. He works the draft well, and if Teddy works out, in a few years we wont be talking about Cassel or Ponder again. Please lord.

[Purple bruise]

Im still not sold on Rickie. He was involved with the Vikes and their picks, long before 2012. Just look at the players we had/have. Some coaches could get talent out of that mess, Fraizer couldn't. Hopefully Rickie has figured it out. He works the draft well, and if Teddy works out, in a few years we wont be talking about Cassel or Ponder again. Please lord.

After drafting your boy I did not think that you would ever have anything negative to say about Ricky ever again

[mondry]

After drafting your boy I did not think that you would ever have anything negative to say about Ricky ever again

haha, the funny thing is once spielman drafts who they want, they suddenly think the guys terrible even if it's who they wanted all along. They hate spielman so much that if he takes the guy they LOVE that guy must actually suck and they were wrong about wanting him!

[Purple bruise]

haha, the funny thing is once spielman drafts who they want, they suddenly think the guys terrible even if it's who they wanted all along. They hate spielman so much that if he takes the guy they LOVE that guy must actually suck and they were wrong about wanting him!

[Demi]

haha, the funny thing is once spielman drafts who they want, they suddenly think the guys terrible even if it's who they wanted all along. They hate spielman so much that if he takes the guy they LOVE that guy must actually suck and they were wrong about wanting him!

Lucky for us it wasn't Spielman that wanted him. He wanted Manziel, who will bust horribly in Cleveland like every Spielman QB.

It would be easier if we just hated every played we drafted though wouldn't it?....which we don't...

[Slick Rick]

Lucky for us it wasn't Spielman that wanted him. He wanted Manziel, who will bust horribly in Cleveland like every Spielman QB.

It would be easier if we just hated every played we drafted though wouldn't it?....which we don't...

Got any proof of that?

[Purple bruise]

Got any proof of that?

Of course he does not but if Teddy does well then he will say that Rick did not want him and if he sucks then he will blame him for drafting him, the same goes for JFB just wait and see