Vikings will seek trade for Ponder.

[Mothman]

I don't believe Cassel has any interest in playing for the Vikings again, thus, he's not a viable veteran FA as it concerns the Vikings.

That's fine but it's purely your belief, and there's no evidence to substantiate it as true. You're choosing to rule him out as a possibility but unless he or the Vikings rule him out, he remains a possibility.

Speaking of contradictions, don't you find it contradictory to say that it's unfair to players if a team "plays to lose" in order to secure a higher draft position, but it's not unfair for a GM to jam a guy into the starting QB spot a week after acquiring him and in the middle of a season where the other two guys who went through training camp and played in games sit?

That's your idea of someone being treated just fine?

I don't see the two situations as equivalent but as I wrote in the post you're responding to, "I'll give you that both he and Ponder had reason to be frustrated by how the Freeman situation was handled but that was a highly unusual set of circumstances and it's not something likely to be repeated".

Of course they are not obligated to start him, but don't you think drafting a guy at #8 or #12 creates some expectations that the Vikes will have to consider starting the guy at some point? If not, by definition he's a developmental prospect, and developmental prospects should not be taken at #8.

How a coaching staff chooses to develop a player doesn't change the initial quality of that player when drafted. If the Colts had decided to take the cap hit and keep Manning, they still would have had the #1 pick and the opportunity to draft Andrew Luck. If they had done so, and Luck had spent a year or two behind the scenes while Manning continued to start, would that have made him a"developmental prospect" in the sense you seem to be using the term, a player unworthy of the #1 pick?

Aaron Rodgers was once considered a potential top 10 draft pick. He fell in the draft but he's proven he would have been worthy of a high pick and he was still drafted in the first round. Did sitting him behind Favre for a few years somehow turn him into a player that shouldn't have been selected in the first round?

There's no rulebook that says a player drafted at #8 needs to start immediately. Fans want and expect that but who cares? Fans don't run the team and thank goodness for that. I just can't agree with your assertion that "Any QB drafted at #8 is going to have to be viewed as a starter out of the gate whether he is or he isn't, and whether he earns it or he doesn't." It's simply not true. A team can always choose how they want to handle the playing time of the players they draft. I agree that drafting a QB at #8 would create expectations for that player to start and he would probably get a chance to start at some point in his first season but he won't have to be viewed as the starter out of the gate. If the coaching staff doesn't feel he's ready to start or if they simply want to take their time with him, I doubt they'll be obligated to start him on day 1.

Maybe Sam Bradford will be the Vikings QB next year?

I really don't know what to say to that. If that is a viable possibility in your mind then I can see where you are coming from. Clearly, *anything* is possible in that case.

Why isn't it a viable possibility? I'm not saying it's a likely possibility because I think it's very unlikely. However, it's been widely reported that he could be a cap casualty so it's certainly possible that he could be available. He's still a young player and the Vikings need a QB. If he hit the market, maybe they would try to sign him.

Bradford was just an example to illustrate the point that we don't know what's coming in the offseason and that unlikely or unexpected solutions to problems sometimes present themselves. There's no reason to be declaring Ponder the probable week 1 starter in February, when we don't even know with certainty that he'll be on the team next season.

Let's revisit this topic then at the beginning of next season. I am saying that unless Spielman makes a trade for either a viable vet or trades up in the draft, Ponder not only will still be with the Vikings at the start of next season, he'll be the starter at QB.

I'll also predict that if Spielman stays put at #8 and takes a QB, unless that QB is Bridgewater or Manziel, they will be a complete flameout and Spielman will not be the GM of the Vikings 3 years from the start of next season. Ditto for any move up in the early 2nd or even back into the late 1st to take a QB. Said QB will almost certainly be a flameout as well. That's my prediction, based on my assumptions and cynicism. Take it for what it's worth, but I'll be happy to revisit it.

We can revisit it if you'd like but I get the impression you think this is about being right when I'm simply saying there's no reason to assume the worst and rule out potential positive outcomes at this point. I have no desire to come back with an "A-ha! You were wrong!" post about this next season if your predictions prove false. You're obviously free to make all the assumptions and predictions you want. If those predictions prove accurate, than bully for you, you'll have correctly predicted another disastrous series of events for your favorite football team. Somehow, I don't think that will feel very satisfying.

[CbusVikesFan]

Hilarious. Ponder is not going anywhere. He is the only QB on the roster right now with Cassel opting out of his last year.

But we might as well have fun with it. Let's play a game of "I would trade Ponder for....."

.....wait for it.....

A DIRTY OL TREE BRANCH!!!!

[Purple bruise]

Hilarious. Ponder is not going anywhere. He is the only QB on the roster right now with Cassel opting out of his last year.

But we might as well have fun with it. Let's play a game of "I would trade Ponder for....."

.....wait for it.....

A DIRTY OL TREE BRANCH!!!!

That would be great fun if we were all third graders

[Rus]

I think a team that is even slightly interested in Ponder as a potential backup is going to wait until the team cuts him loose. I doubt Ponder is going to graciously accept a long term backup role with the Vikings before his contract ends.

I'm mostly interested though in what team actually wants him so much and sees something in him that they'd actually try to push ahead of everyone else with a trade. Even Josh Freeman at least had a year or two of reasonably good production and Tampa just had to cut him outright. Maybe there's a team out there who really wants a quarterback who smiles nicely and has a ceiling somewhere around Ryan Fitzpatrick/a floor somewhere around Charlie Whitehurst.

[CbusVikesFan]

That would be great fun if we were all third graders

Well, excuse me DAD!! I didn't know that I had to be so serious here. The fifties called, it wants it personality back!

[Mothman]

I think a team that is even slightly interested in Ponder as a potential backup is going to wait until the team cuts him loose. I doubt Ponder is going to graciously accept a long term backup role with the Vikings before his contract ends.

I'm mostly interested though in what team actually wants him so much and sees something in him that they'd actually try to push ahead of everyone else with a trade. Even Josh Freeman at least had a year or two of reasonably good production and Tampa just had to cut him outright. Maybe there's a team out there who really wants a quarterback who smiles nicely and has a ceiling somewhere around Ryan Fitzpatrick/a floor somewhere around Charlie Whitehurst.

Fitzpatrick keeps finding work in the NFL.

I think Ponder has more value than most Vikes fan think. His contract and the possibility the Vikes might cut him may be the two biggest obstacles to a trade but Ponder is young and has less than 3 seasons of playing experience. There are undeniable issues with his game but a player his age still has the capacity for growth and when he avoids negative plays (as Norv Turner talked about) he can be a pretty effective QB, certainly a QB a team can win games with if necessary. If you consider the overall quality of the backups in the league I think he has appeal as a backup QB. With the right coaching and some growth (ie: seeing the field better and eliminating some of those negative plays) he could be a good backup QB. I suspect the Packers would have liked to have him last year during that span between Rodgers going down and Flynn coming to the rescue.

To put it another way, Ponder started every game for a 10 win team in 2012, in just his second season and it's not like that was a team that won with a dominant defense. Peterson's incredible year obviously helped them achieve a winning record but Ponder helped them win some of those games too. He's had an uneven career thus far, to put it mildly, but it's a young career and there's already evidence that a team can reach the playoffs with him at QB. Do people really believe there's no NFL team that would see value in adding him to their depth chart? If I was a GM and needed a backup QB, I'd certainly consider investing a late round pick in trade to get him.

[Purple bruise]

Well, excuse me DAD!! I didn't know that I had to be so serious here. The fifties called, it wants it personality back!

Seriously, how old are you

[S197]

I think Ponder might do well in a backup role, one of his biggest downsides seems to be his inability to mentally get himself in the game. He gets rattled far too easily. Coming off the bench unexpectedly might be good for him, less time to think. There's still the lack of pocket presence, vision, etc. but most backups are going to have knocks against them otherwise they'd be starting.

That being said, I don't know how well he'll fit in Turners offense. I think his arm strength while not great is adequate but he struggles with accuracy downfield and also pulling the trigger. I don't see him as a good fit in a vertical offense. A trade seems unlikely so I think the Vikings will have to decide if they should just cut their losses or bring him along for another year. Sadly I think the latter is more likely.

[viking nation]

I agree with ones that said Ponder doesnt have any trade value. Turner has said he likes what good things he seen from Ponder So maybe he has plans for him to start.. I say can Ponder stay on the field for a full season. He hasn't played a full season from the time he became a PRO. Ponder still has a year on his contract & Keeping Ponder the Vikes would need to resign him to a new contract, Something like the one they offered Cassel. Ponder is going to cost the Vikes more money to keep him on the roster. Now lets say Ponder gets hurt once again Should one of the drafted QBs be tossed into the fire like Ponder was OR should the Vikings go out & find a backup.

[CbusVikesFan]

That would be great fun if we were all third graders

Seriously, how old are you [/quote]
Seriously....what makes the difference? You obviously think you are superior, mature, and more intelligent than I and it wouldn't make any difference my age so I ask myself why are you making a mountain out of a mole hill? If you didn't like the comment/post why draw attention to it? Are you related to CP7? Did you take that personal? Is this board only for serious posts?
I guess the dirty ol tree branch was too much to take, the ice cream cone was more palpable for you.

[VikingLord]

Aaron Rodgers was once considered a potential top 10 draft pick. He fell in the draft but he's proven he would have been worthy of a high pick and he was still drafted in the first round. Did sitting him behind Favre for a few years somehow turn him into a player that shouldn't have been selected in the first round?

No, Rodgers was clearly a BPA pick for the Packers that year. They took him in the 1st round despite having no need at QB, and as a result they positioned themselves to have the luxury of sitting him while Favre played out his stint at QB. When is the last time the Vikings were in that position at QB?

I agree that drafting a QB at #8 would create expectations for that player to start and he would probably get a chance to start at some point in his first season but he won't have to be viewed as the starter out of the gate. If the coaching staff doesn't feel he's ready to start or if they simply want to take their time with him, I doubt they'll be obligated to start him on day 1.

Viewed as a starter isn't the same as viewed as an immediate starter, unless, of course, you're talking about a team like the Vikings that has no clear-cut starter at QB. For those teams, the pressure to start a guy drafted top-15 is going to be much more acute no matter how the coaching staff might like to view it.

Why isn't it a viable possibility? I'm not saying it's a likely possibility because I think it's very unlikely. However, it's been widely reported that he could be a cap casualty so it's certainly possible that he could be available. He's still a young player and the Vikings need a QB. If he hit the market, maybe they would try to sign him.

Bradford isn't going to be a cap casualty because if the Rams don't keep him then they are right back in the mix to find a replacement.

Bradford was just an example to illustrate the point that we don't know what's coming in the offseason and that unlikely or unexpected solutions to problems sometimes present themselves. There's no reason to be declaring Ponder the probable week 1 starter in February, when we don't even know with certainty that he'll be on the team next season.

If you look at the scenario, the only ones where Ponder isn't the starter are ones like the one you outlined above - all very unlikely IMHO. We have to resort to teams releasing their former high #1 draft picks who are entering the prime of their careers to solve the problem without any pain for Spielman and the Vikings. That just isn't going to happen. Solving this particular problem is going to be painful. The question is only how is the pain going to be experienced, how long, and who will experience it.

And just for the record, I don't think Ponder being the starter heading into next season is necessarily the worst thing that could happen. If Spielman makes a move in the upcoming draft to get a legit starting prospect, perhaps letting Ponder start the season would be a good thing because I do agree that throwing a rookie into the fire is difficult. Manziel might be the type of guy who would thrive in a situation where he's the immediate starter, but I think pretty much everyone else could benefit from time to acclimate to the pros.

[Mothman]

No, Rodgers was clearly a BPA pick for the Packers that year. They took him in the 1st round despite having no need at QB, and as a result they positioned themselves to have the luxury of sitting him while Favre played out his stint at QB. When is the last time the Vikings were in that position at QB?

It's been a long, long time but I don't think that's relevant to the point I was making, which was that not playing a QB immediately has no bearing on what kind of prospect he is in the first place.

Viewed as a starter isn't the same as viewed as an immediate starter, unless, of course, you're talking about a team like the Vikings that has no clear-cut starter at QB. For those teams, the pressure to start a guy drafted top-15 is going to be much more acute no matter how the coaching staff might like to view it.

I understand that but it still doesn't mean any QB drafted at #8 is going to have to be viewed as a starter out of the gate.

Bradford isn't going to be a cap casualty because if the Rams don't keep him then they are right back in the mix to find a replacement.

As I said, whether Bradford actually becomes a cap casualty or not is irrelevant. He was just an example used to illustrate a point.

If you look at the scenario, the only ones where Ponder isn't the starter are ones like the one you outlined above - all very unlikely IMHO. We have to resort to teams releasing their former high #1 draft picks who are entering the prime of their careers to solve the problem without any pain for Spielman and the Vikings.

It feels like you've practically painted yourself into a corner by ruling out scenarios that don't need to be ruled out at this point. We don't have to resort to scenarios like Bradford becoming a cap casualty to end up with a scenario in which Ponder isn't the starter at the beginning of next season. Cutting or trading Ponder remains a possibility. As I've already said, they could re-sign Cassel or another free agent. They could make a trade for a veteran QB, trade up to draft one of the two QBs you seem to like or even draft another QB, although I realize you believe the latter scenario will result in a flameout if that QB is asked to start. The point is that a lot could happen over the next months and it's actually pretty easy to envision scenarios in which Ponder isn't the team's best, or at least preferred, option to start the season.

And just for the record, I don't think Ponder being the starter heading into next season is necessarily the worst thing that could happen. If Spielman makes a move in the upcoming draft to get a legit starting prospect, perhaps letting Ponder start the season would be a good thing because I do agree that throwing a rookie into the fire is difficult. Manziel might be the type of guy who would thrive in a situation where he's the immediate starter, but I think pretty much everyone else could benefit from time to acclimate to the pros.

Personally, I think Manziel is going to need time to acclimate too. He has a number of habits that might prove very problematic in the pros. he could be thrown into the fire right away but I think he'll have some turnover-heavy games and real growing pains early in his pro career. Anyway, I agree that Ponder being the starter when next season opens isn't the worst thing that could happen, although I suspect there's a horde of angry Vikings fans who feel otherwise and make that very clear from the stands if the Vikings open at home.

It's certainly not the best thing that could happen either... let's see how it all plays out. I'm guessing there will be quite a bit of activity involving the Vikings QB position this offseason.

[Texas Vike]

Not trying to poke anyone with a stick, but Mothman, and some others keep saying that nobody that could start can/will be available at #8. Im not a huge Manziel fan, but I think most consider him one, and alot think Bortles could be as well. So Bridgewater, Bortles, and Manziel. Everyone thinks there is no way any of those guys drop down to the Vikes at 8?

I know there are always some trades going on, so can't look entirely at just who is ahead of us right now. But I think there is at least a 50/50 chance one of those guys is still there at 8.

7 picks before us.

1. Texas - Keep hearing that Clowney is the guy. They want to pair him up with JJ Watt.
2. Rams - Unless they trade pick away, they won't be drafting QB. Set at QB with Bradford
3. Jax - Prob the first and only team that you can guarantee will be picking QB. Prob Bridgewater? or also hear they like Bortles.
4. Browns - I would say 50/50 on QB here, but with Hoyer and still having Weedon, might the new coaching regime try to get something more out of those guys, maybe pull one of the others out of 2nd/3rd round.
5. Raiders - The most unpredictable team on draft day always. And coming off of the huge disappointment last time they drafted a QB so early, they may not be ready to go through that again.
6. Atlanta - Set at QB with Ryan
7. TB - Rumors seem to be that they are happy with Glennon, and will prob go Edge Rusher or OT.

I the Vikes there is a decent chance the Vikings have an opportunity to get one of these 3 guys. Whether any of them are good enough to be the guy for our team. Or whether the guy to really make things happen is hiding somewhere in rounds 2-5, who knows. I just think we have written off the opportunity to draft Bridgewater, Bortles, or Manziel a bit prematurely. Thoughts?

Solid post. I'd put it at 50/50 w/ the Raiders being the deciding factor on whether one of the top 3 QBs is there at 8. Clearly, lots can change by May, but that's my take in February. Bridgewater or Manziel will be there at 8; that's my guess. Whether Norv, Zimmy and Spielman like one of those options there or not is another issue.

[losperros]

I think Ponder has more value than most Vikes fan think. His contract and the possibility the Vikes might cut him may be the two biggest obstacles to a trade but Ponder is young and has less than 3 seasons of playing experience. There are undeniable issues with his game but a player his age still has the capacity for growth and when he avoids negative plays (as Norv Turner talked about) he can be a pretty effective QB, certainly a QB a team can win games with if necessary. If you consider the overall quality of the backups in the league I think he has appeal as a backup QB. With the right coaching and some growth (ie: seeing the field better and eliminating some of those negative plays) he could be a good backup QB. I suspect the Packers would have liked to have him last year during that span between Rodgers going down and Flynn coming to the rescue.

To put it another way, Ponder started every game for a 10 win team in 2012, in just his second season and it's not like that was a team that won with a dominant defense. Peterson's incredible year obviously helped them achieve a winning record but Ponder helped them win some of those games too. He's had an uneven career thus far, to put it mildly, but it's a young career and there's already evidence that a team can reach the playoffs with him at QB. Do people really believe there's no NFL team that would see value in adding him to their depth chart? If I was a GM and needed a backup QB, I'd certainly consider investing a late round pick in trade to get him.

I agree with all the above. While Ponder is not a "franchise" QB yet (and maybe never will be), that doesn't mean he can't be a solid backup. I'm convinced that Ponder getting a fresh start elsewhere would be good for him and just maybe for the team that trades for him.

Regarding the 2012 season, AD carried the team on his back. But even so, Ponder certainly had his good moments. This was especially true during the month of December, in my view. Ponder made wise decisions, threw with accuracy, and for one month suddenly looked as if he could still be the guy. Then he comes out and plays poorly to begin the 2013 season. Go figure. It's that inconsistency that drives me crazy.

[majorm]

Ugghhh. I'm done talking about Ponder. Unless he's still on the team to start the season I've nothing more to say about him.