Kluwe rips Frazier, Spielman, Priefer

[Slick Rick]

Ted Bundy was extremely intelligent (IQ reportedly between 124-140). I'm not equating Bundy to Kluwe, I'm saying Intelligence does not equate to truthfulness. Yes, Kluwe is smart and he understands the gravity of what he has alleged, but it doesn't exclude the possibility he is a narcissist who might think that he can "twist the truth" enough (or lie) to destroy Priefer and "get away with it. I'm not saying that is what's happening, but I'm not ruling it out, either.

Many serial murderers are very intelligent.

Like I said, the best liars are the ones who can do it so well that you don't even know they're lying. They're usually very intelligent, or at least they are in a certain way, regardless of IQ. I think Chris is smart and I'm not even necessarily calling him a liar, this is all theoretical, like anything else in this case since we have no idea what actually happened.

[Slick Rick]

LoL - he is not making this up. You can believe me or not but I already stated pages and pages ago he let close friends know about this back when this happened last year.
OK? So everything Hitler said was passed off like "hmm. no biggie. that silly mustached man. hehe"?

Pretty funny, last I checked Hitler was responsible for the deaths of millions, and Mike Priefer just made a comment.

Also, OH, so he told his friends? Alright, that clears any doubt I ever had about him telling the truth completely.

[Just Me]

I don't think the fact that heterosexuals are typically considered to be less victimized than homosexuals should factor into it, since this is about equality. I do agree with you on the poor judgment part, and I think the Vikings would be within their rights to fire Priefer, since he's an employee, and he represents their business. Same goes with Kluwe, and especially after they told him to knock it off. 100% agree though, you shouldn't make that comment if you're Mike Priefer, and you're supposed to set an example, and also just saying it in front of someone who you know disagrees with you.

I hear what you're saying. My point in mentioning the levels of discrimination was to point out that it's not an apples to apples comparison when someone is "making a joke".

Specifically because heterosexuals have not been the victims of violence based solely on orientation, it's pretty obvious that words about nuking them are confusing or a joke. The motives and interpretations are far less clear when the same statement is made about a group that has experienced violence against them because of their orientation.

So I disagree on that one point. I think you could make that joke about heterosexuals and it's implied that it's a joke. If you were able to cite me an instance where a heterosexual suffered violence because of his orientation, then I would agree that it's an equal situation.

[Just Me]

Actually, if one looks at say Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy and Andrew Cunanan, all serial killers, one might surmise at least these 3 were in fact, Gay. If any of their victims were straight, then maybe Heterosexuals have been persecuted in a sense, you can't really rule that out. Don't care to get into this but as long as Bundy was brought up.

I'm not saying heterosexuals are/were not persecuted. I'm saying heterosexuals were not persecuted solely on their sexual orientation. Homosexuals have been.

The mentioned killers' motives were not tied to "heterosexual anger" (and in Cunanan's case it was theorized that he killed Versace because of his role as a 'gay icon.'). Some of Dahmer's victims also engaged in homosexual behavior. If anything, it would be an argument for further hate crimes against homosexuals, rather than heterosexuals. Give me a documented instance of heterosexual 'hate crimes' and I might agree. No such example exists.

I brought Bundy up not to discuss serial killer's motives, but as an illustration that exceptional intelligence has nothing to do with telling the truth.

[Cliff]

Alright, Godwin's law has been reached.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of #### Analogies or Godwin's Law of #### Analogies[1][2]) is an assertion made by Mike Godwin in 1990[2] that has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[2][3] In other words, Godwin said that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a comparison to Hitler or the Nazis.

It's time to turn this topic back to talking specifically about Kluwe and the Vikings. If you want to discuss other topics take it to private messages.

Thanks.

[Purple bruise]

Alright, Godwin's law has been reached.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
It's time to turn this topic back to talking specifically about Kluwe and the Vikings. If you want to discuss other topics take it to private messages.

Thanks.

Thank you

[Just Me]

Alright, Godwin's law has been reached.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
It's time to turn this topic back to talking specifically about Kluwe and the Vikings. If you want to discuss other topics take it to private messages.

Thanks.

Good call!

[Just Me]

Not much to add, but Kluwe did interview with investigators yesterday.

[NextQuestion]

@christomasson: Chris Kluwe's lawyer says there are text messages from kicker Blair Walsh that corroborate Kluwe Priefer claims including 1 on "nuke" gays.

[frosted]

@christomasson: Chris Kluwe's lawyer says there are text messages from kicker Blair Walsh that corroborate Kluwe Priefer claims including 1 on "nuke" gays.

Wow, if that is true, Walsh lied his #### off in his statement.

[frosted]

http://www.twincities.com/ci_24992553/c ... n-loeffler

The full article. Looking pretty bad on the Vikings part, if all the things Kluwe's lawyer said are true. I guess we will find out soon enough, if there truly are text messages supporting Kluwe's allegations. The troubling thing is that the Vikings allegedly had these things reported to them last year. I don't know what to make of all of it. I am going to wait and see before passing judgement.

[Mothman]

Wow, if that is true, Walsh lied his #### off in his statement.

Walsh never denied that the comments were made. His statement:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikin ... 24261.html

I have been a member of the Minnesota Vikings for 2 years. I want to start off by saying I have the utmost respect for Rick Spielman, Leslie Frazier and Mike Priefer. All three, are good men.

I have had countless conversations and interactions with Coach Priefer, and I personally can attest to his integrity and character. His professionalism in the workplace is exemplary, and I firmly believe that my teammates would whole-heartedly agree. The allegations made today are reprehensible and totally not compatible with what Mike Priefer stands for.

As we all know, in the NFL you must perform at the highest level and meet the performance expectations of your coaches, management, and ownership. If these expectations, based upon past performance AND future potential for excellence, are not met, your NFL career with that team, is over. I believe this was the case with Chris, and it is unfair to think that his release was anything other than football related.

In my time here at Minnesota, Rick Spielman and Leslie Frazier have exemplified true leadership. Contrary to Chris’ statements, they have promoted a workplace environment that was conducive for success. At no time did I ever feel suppressed or that I could not be myself.

I firmly stand behind Rick Spielman, Leslie Frazier, and Mike Priefer.

Blair Walsh

[Funkytown]

Wow, if that is true, Walsh lied his #### off in his statement.

Not surprising. But Walsh should have known not to lie, especially knowing how serious and persistent Kluwe is.

This stuck with me:

Halunen said he believes the Vikings will end up contending what Priefer said was a joke. But Halunen said the alleged homophobic comments were serious and were made numerous times. Halunen said they did not start until Kluwe began to speak out shortly before the 2012 season about his support against a since-defeated Minnesota amendment that would have banned same-sex marriage in the state.

"(The Vikings) may claim that this was said as a joke, but that's not the case,'' Halunen said. "They were very serious. It was very angry. This is not one comment. We have evidence of many comments ongoing for a period (of a few months) on a weekly basis that Priefer would make.''

This is what I've discussed in length. This wasn't a "one time" comment. It wasn't a joke. Besides, their relationship was obviously a lot different over time. There was resentment there. Common sense says, people with that kind of "failing relationship" don't make "jokes" like that. As I said many times, this was getting closer to harassment and taunting at a workplace, which isn't okay. And it looks like Loeffler chose to complain along with Kluwe, so there's that. And apparently Walsh must have felt it was necessary to at least text about that incident some time after, so there's that, too. Sure, these two didn't have problems with him "personally", but they were witnesses to him being inappropriate, and that matters (Walsh!).

[Mothman]

This is what I've discussed in length. This wasn't a "one time" comment. It wasn't a joke. Besides, their relationship was obviously a lot different over time. There was resentment there. Common sense says, people with that kind of "failing relationship" don't make "jokes" like that. As I said many times, this was getting closer to harassment and taunting at a workplace, which isn't okay.

Let's not pretend an NFL practice field or meeting room is a normal or typical workplace. Maybe Kluwe's ultimate goal here is to have it treated like one but to a certain degree, taunting or harassing players is one of the tools in a coach's playbook. Some use it, some don't and maybe none should but regardless of what Kluwe's lawyer says, there are inevitably two sides to every story. At this point, we still have Kluwe's side and little else.

The statements you indicated in bold above basically just reiterate what Kluwe has said already and his lawyer is obviously going to speak in support of his client so none of that is surprising.

And it looks like Loeffler chose to complain along with Kluwe, so there's that. And apparently Walsh must have felt it was necessary to at least text about that incident some time after, so there's that, too. Sure, these two didn't have problems with him "personally", but they were witnesses to him being inappropriate, and that matters (Walsh!).

We'll see... at this point, no new evidence has been produced. As many of us have been saying all along, context matters. Where, why and how Priefer said whatever he said is relevant, not just what he said. Ditto for the alleged texts from Walsh. In what context were they made? What do they say?

By stating he believes the Vikings will end up contending what Priefer said was a joke and then reinforcing Kluwe's side of the story, Halunen's clearly trying to prep the public for what he believes is coming. None of that means Priefer wasn't joking or in some way trying to motivate Kluwe. Until this comes down to more than what Kluwe and his lawyer claim happened, it just doesn't amount to much.

My guess is we're never going to know what really occurred. I won't be surprised if the investigation finds little to support Kluwe's allegations, he sues, the Vikes settle and we never see the alleged texts from Walsh or get answers under oath from the people who were present.

[Funkytown]

Walsh never denied that the comments were made. His statement:

Lying at some point and "denying that the comments were made" are two different things. Knowing the alleged comments, and Walsh being a witness, it's hard for me to believe the rest of this about Priefer's integrity, character, professionalism, and teammates whole-heartedly agreeing with such, are true. Or, hey, maybe Walsh thinks those sorts of comments show integrity, good character, and professionalism. Ya never know. We all have different standards.

I know, I know. You're "waiting it out".