I still believe in Ponder as a starting QB

[King James]

You've responded to everybody who mocked you or flamed you, but not to the logical, fact-based argument you said you wanted.

Not to go all psychological here ... oh, hell. Why not? Nobody comes to a message board like this, writes something provocative, then says with any honesty, "I don't care what you think." If you didn't care what we think, you wouldn't have posted it. So here's your chance to prove your football acumen. Counter my argument. I don't think you can. Prove me wrong.

No disrespect to you or anyone else here but I don't need to prove myself to you or anyone else on this board. I am here to talk about Vikings football. I'm assuming all of us here are adults? If so, we should know by now that everyone's opinions won't be the same. I made this thread because I believe Ponder has some plus sides in him. I didn't say I was right and people who disagree are wrong, this is just an opinion.

But people see the name Ponder and automatically go crazy. If you say something positive about Ponder then you get crucified for it. I respect everyone's opinion on Ponder, whether it's positive or negative. My opinion is still the same. People need to learn how to just agree to disagree. I appreciate your points though, there is some true in all the facts that were presented. At the end of the day, we are just fans, and we are all entitled to our own opinions.

Finally, I don't care if anyone here thinks I'm dumb, stupid, a bad fan, and etc. If that's how people feel about me then that's how they feel. Me personally, I have nothing against anyone on this board, even the ones who talk negative about me. I'm here to discuss football with you all. I know I have a couple of good friends on here like MelanieMFunk and JeffBleedsPurple. Me and Melanie been through hell and back, because I remember in the past she was getting attacked on another message board for supporting Ponder. So it's whatever, you feel me? I wrote this thread to share my opinion, and yes I like for people to share their views as well. When I said I don't care what people think, I meant about me because most posts were about me than the thread. So there. This is not an counter argument, this is just how I feel.

[Funkytown]

I know I have a couple of good friends on here like MelanieMFunk and JeffBleedsPurple. Me and Melanie been through hell and back, because I remember in the past she was getting attacked on another message board for supporting Ponder. So it's whatever, you feel me?

Hell and back? I would have to agree. We've had some good battles, haven't we? Too bad I always got the best of you. lol. Kidding. But, yeah, it's harder to remain on the positive side of things, so I give you credit there. At the end of the day, it's better just to support whoever is wearing that purple on Sunday and leave it at that. Also, thanks for the kind words.

[Hunter Morrow]

People always say "Is Ponder the Answer?"

The answer to what? What's the question?

Here's my question: What Quarterback Will Get This Team A Super Bowl Win?

Can anybody here honestly say the phrase "Christian Ponder, Super Bowl Champion" and buy into that?

Okay, if he's not the Super Bowl winner than the other question is this, what is his ceiling?
An NFC Championship loss? No thanks, seen 3 of those in my life already.
I don't want another 4 years of Ponder for the best case scenario of something like Wide Left/Kneeldown,
Donut Game or BountyGate.

So the question remains: Can He Win The Super Bowl?

If the answer is no, time to friggin' move on. And he's had his chances. 32 starts with this team, 2 full seasons, to
demonstrate that he had what it took to win the Super Bowl. We know what we have with him, mediocrity most likely,
heartbreak in best case scenario.

Time to look to the draft.

[PurpleHalo]

-The team has scored more points with Ponder in
-Ponder has a higher QBR
-Cassel's stats make him look better than he actually played, and they don't look that good to begin with
-You might be right him being the worst starting QB in the NFL, but only because Cassel isn't starting. Actually, you definitely are not right. Weeden, Whoever is playing for the Jags, Geno Smith, EJ Manuel, Shaub, Carson Palmer, Prior, Eli, have been pretty objectively worse than Ponder this season, and there are several more who you can make an argument for.

Can we factor in points off turnovers for the opposition? Plays in the clutch, like late in games, needing one throw to seal it? Or the simple eye test, Cassel isn't very good, but to me he has looked more legit staying in there and making a throw. And some of these QBs you mentioned who you say are on par with Ponder, are there because they have fallen, not because Ponder has risen to their level.

[majorm]

I have said in another thread that I'm getting "weary" of the Ponder discussion. It makes me even wearier that he's still relevant enough to be talking about.

While I'm not going to attack anybody personally here; how anyone could have watched the Vikings this season and think Ponder is a quality NFL starting QB is beyond me. And quote me all the stats you want. You know how I know Matt Cassel is better? I have EYES!!

But of course it appears that among those that apparently wouldn't know a decent QB if they hit him in the face with a footbal, is the Vikings' head coach.

How Frazier can keep running Ponder out there when he so limits the offense is beyond me. There is either some other agenda at work here or Frazier is truly the most clueless coach to ever put on a headset.

[DanAS]

I can see Ponder as an NFL QB, but not a starter on a team that is aiming to contend for a Super Bowl. He runs well, but as a passer and a decision maker, I have never been impressed.

[PurpleHalo]

All of the anti-Ponder remarks are old hat too, for now, he's the QB. If someone else gets in, I'll support them. Plenty of blame for last Sunday's loss to go around.

And for the season plenty of blame, but you can only be as strong as your weakest link. If this defense had played on par with last season, does anyone think this is a contender? They weren't last season either, they were eventual cannon fodder.

[Mothman]

And for the season plenty of blame, but you can only be as strong as your weakest link. If this defense had played on par with last season, does anyoner think this is a contender? They weren't last season either, they were eventual cannon fodder.

I'm not sure it's even possible to define this team's weakest link.

[J. Kapp 11]

No disrespect to you or anyone else here but I don't need to prove myself to you or anyone else on this board. I am here to talk about Vikings football. I'm assuming all of us here are adults? If so, we should know by now that everyone's opinions won't be the same. I made this thread because I believe Ponder has some plus sides in him. I didn't say I was right and people who disagree are wrong, this is just an opinion.

But people see the name Ponder and automatically go crazy. If you say something positive about Ponder then you get crucified for it. I respect everyone's opinion on Ponder, whether it's positive or negative. My opinion is still the same. People need to learn how to just agree to disagree. I appreciate your points though, there is some true in all the facts that were presented. At the end of the day, we are just fans, and we are all entitled to our own opinions.

Finally, I don't care if anyone here thinks I'm dumb, stupid, a bad fan, and etc. If that's how people feel about me then that's how they feel. Me personally, I have nothing against anyone on this board, even the ones who talk negative about me. I'm here to discuss football with you all. I know I have a couple of good friends on here like MelanieMFunk and JeffBleedsPurple. Me and Melanie been through hell and back, because I remember in the past she was getting attacked on another message board for supporting Ponder. So it's whatever, you feel me? I wrote this thread to share my opinion, and yes I like for people to share their views as well. When I said I don't care what people think, I meant about me because most posts were about me than the thread. So there. This is not an counter argument, this is just how I feel.

Dude, where did I say you were dumb or stupid?

I have tried to engage you in an intelligent conversation about Christian Ponder. That's all. My comments about why people post (not just you) are valid. If we didn't care, we wouldn't come here. I'm actually agreeing with you.

But it's not fair to post something provocative, tell people, "I know I'm going to get flamed," then go crazy when people flame you.

All I've tried to do is engage you in a real conversation about what I perceive to be shortcomings regarding Christian Ponder. Your response to me, save for a tiny bit of agreement, is a manifesto on why people should let you have your opinions without being flamed. Except I didn't flame you.

So I'll ask you two questions straight up...

1. Does Christian Ponder need some degree of proficiency throwing from the pocket to be an NFL-caliber starting quarterback?

2. Is it reasonable to assume that anybody who posts an opinion here, including myself, is trying to convince SOMEBODY that their opinion is right?

Thank you.


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[mansquatch]

I see Ponder’s issues as this:

He has a severe confidence issue. He hesitates on throws and he bails on the pocket way too soon.

He doesn’t see the entire field like he should and doesn’t make the full progression of his reads

His Accuracy needs to improve, he is missing throws by feet when he can only afford to be off by inches

That is a big mountain to overcome IMO. He is obviously a smart guy and mechanically can probably figure some stuff out. However, I think most of his issues are mental, not physical. I really think he is a guy who wants to think things through vs. make the snap decisions. This speaks to the confidence issue, which is why I listed it first. I have no idea if Ponder can make the step to the next level on these issues.

[PurpleHalo]

I'm not sure it's even possible to define this team's weakest link.

Oh it's a no brainer, it has been for the better part of how many decades? The trophy case screams it, nothing but a big elephant in the room. The no count teams don't, the true championship contenders do. It isn't this teams weakest link, it is this franchises weakest link, they haven't had a true one since number 10 retired. Number 9 was close, so was 11 x2, but no cigar. January 1977 they had one, and it was the last time what happened?

[PurpleHalo]

If anyone 'believes' in Ponder at this point, ask yourself this:

If Ponder was released today, who would pick him up?

Anyone?

Sadly the Packers maybe, haha.

Seriously did you see Senica Wallace play Monday?

[Funkytown]

If anyone 'believes' in Ponder at this point, ask yourself this:

If Ponder was released today, who would pick him up?

Anyone?

I think a couple teams would take a look. I just don't know who. Can I ask Miss Cleo?

[King James]

So I'll ask you two questions straight up...

1. Does Christian Ponder need some degree of proficiency throwing from the pocket to be an NFL-caliber starting quarterback?

2. Is it reasonable to assume that anybody who posts an opinion here, including myself, is trying to convince SOMEBODY that their opinion is right?

Thank you.


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1. Yes he does need to improve a LOT in the pocket. The problem is I don't think he will ever improve in that area. This is where I could be wrong but I THINK, he is still DECENT enough to start. I think if the coaches design runs or roll outs for him then he can move the ball easier. I'm basically going off what I seen in college. He doesn't have a arm, he stares down his first read, and he can make plays when either running for his life or running a designed QB run. Some will say this doesn't work in the NFL but what else do have? I believe as long as you are still able to big make plays and score whether its being a passing QB, mobile QB, or whatever then you can be a starting QB in this league.

2. I wasn't necessarily talking about you. You were the few people who actually responded to the post. I was referring to the other people who were making mockery threads (which have been deleted), calling me an attention wh--, and etc. Those were not opinions on Ponder, but more like opinions directed at me for believing in Ponder as a starter. But like I said, it's cool. I can't control or stop how people feel nor am I trying to.

[PurpleHalo]

1. Yes he does need to improve a LOT in the pocket. The problem is I don't think he will ever improve in that area. This is where I could be wrong but I THINK, he is still DECENT enough to start. I think if the coaches design runs or roll outs for him then he can move the ball easier. I'm basically going off what I seen in college. He doesn't have a arm, he stares down his first read, and he can make plays when either running for his life or running a designed QB run. Some will say this doesn't work in the NFL but what else do have? I believe as long as you are still able to big make plays and score whether its being a passing QB, mobile QB, or whatever then you can be a starting QB in this league.

2. I wasn't necessarily talking about you. You were the few people who actually responded to the post. I was referring to the other people who were making mockery threads (which have been deleted), calling me an attention wh--, and etc. Those were not opinions on Ponder, but more like opinions directed at me for believing in Ponder as a starter. But like I said, it's cool. I can't control or stop how people feel nor am I trying to.

This year doesn't matter, no need to develop anymore styles for Ponder to play. If they ignore the position in the draft, and I mean this wholeheartedly, I am done with this franchise forever. I can't do it anymore, I have put so much into them, and get nothing back not even competence. This team hasn't had a full fledged franchise QB since Tarkenton retired in 78. They have been close with a few, but close doesn't cut it. I'm sick of it, sick of watching teams compete for titles because they have one, and we sneak in every now and again because we don't. Time to get one and put trophies in the case, I have no more time to wait on this, life is too short.

When we get the Cunningham, Favre types it's nice, I enjoyed that. But those windows are small, and less margin for error, meaning you have to do it now. When you have a young answer at the position, and the rest is built around them, you can fail, because you will probably be back around in a year or 2 when you get that shutdown corner, or that RB you were missing. It's been so much harder on us, because the ones that have seen this before knew in 2009, that was do or die, same with 98. That's why those hurt so much.