4 picks for an unproven receiver?

[The Breeze]

If I'm not mistaken, Harvin a 4.41 in the 40 yard dash and Patterson ran a 4.42 so while 40 times are not always representative of football speed, they certainly seem comparable in that department.

I wouldn't doubt that they have close 40 times....I think Harvin has shown that he just flat out pulls away from NFL players when he gets a crease. He doesn't do a whole lot of cutting around. Could be a faster on the field type thing or it could be an acceleration thing.

I have to disagree with you on that point. I think he clearly possesses explosive, "take it to the house" speed. Check out the second video at the link below and watch both the acceleration and sustained speed he shows on the play. he looks pretty fast in the first video too.

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/2012/c ... ighlights/

Then check out the speed he shows on this spectacular play against Georgia:

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/2012/c ... ighlights/

I saw his whole reel. To be clear...I think he is fast and has big play capacity and I'm stoked we got him. I was just commenting on his comparison to Harvin as per taking it to the house on any play. I think this kid needs more space than Percy and is much easier to bring down...provided he stops juking long enough for someone to hit him. I see him actually being a way better receiver than Harvin once he learns the game. I think his type of speed is suited for stretching the field and getting separation rather than busting a bubble screen for 40 yds or blowing through a crease in a kick coverage. On his kick returns, he doesn't seem to have the same straight through the gap burst that Harvin displays either. Again I'm not sure anyone does. IMO Harvin's biggest asset was his ability to literally accelerate away from defenders making it tough to get an angle on him. CP does a lot of east west running too... which causes the guys close to him to miss but it opens up angles for other guys pursuing. I imagine they will try to discourage that as PurpleJarl posted.

I agree. Between coaching and some good veteran advice from a great route runner like Jennings, Patterson should have everything he needs to learn the pro game well. After that, it will be up to him.

I think the kid has incredible potential as an actual WR who can be very effective short and long, as opposed to Harvin who, up to this point, has been a way more gadgety talent. It's easy to see why they made the move and I'm quite pleased with how this draft went..... on paper anyway, we'll see who does what.

[Mothman]

I saw his whole reel. To be clear...I think he is fast and has big play capacity and I'm stoked we got him. I was just commenting on his comparison to Harvin as per taking it to the house on any play. I think this kid needs more space than Percy and is much easier to bring down...provided he stops juking long enough for someone to hit him. I see him actually being a way better receiver than Harvin once he learns the game. I think his type of speed is suited for stretching the field and getting separation rather than busting a bubble screen for 40 yds or blowing through a crease in a kick coverage. On his kick returns, he doesn't seem to have the same straight through the gap burst that Harvin displays either. Again I'm not sure anyone does. IMO Harvin's biggest asset was his ability to literally accelerate away from defenders making it tough to get an angle on him. CP does a lot of east west running too... which causes the guys close to him to miss but it opens up angles for other guys pursuing. I imagine they will try to discourage that as PurpleJarl posted.

Whether he's as fast as Harvin or not, I'm just puzzled by your assessment that his "speed is suited for stretching the field and getting separation rather than busting a bubble screen for 40 yds or blowing through a crease in a kick coverage" when we essentially see him do those things in highlights of his year at Tennessee. They're not necessarily bubble screens but in the two plays I linked to above, he shows that he just needs a crease and he has the acceleration and speed to get through that window into the open field and all the way to the end zone. He shows a great burst and the ability to run away from defenders on returns too.

Anyway, we agree that he has tremendous potential. I just have a hard time agreeing with the idea that he doesn't have "take it to the house" speed when there seems to be ample evidence to the contrary.

[headless_norseman]

He broke a lot of our hearts when he couldn't make that catch.

I think that was only the second time in my life I had actual tears in my eyes after a game. Ironiocally, I actually called for that play after the timeout.

[hibbingviking]

cant believe so many think a small receiver like tavon Austin is going to have such great success in the nfl. wait until he gets blown up in the endzone like what happened to anquan boldin. Patterson was the right choice.

[The Breeze]

Whether he's as fast as Harvin or not, I'm just puzzled by your assessment that his "speed is suited for stretching the field and getting separation rather than busting a bubble screen for 40 yds or blowing through a crease in a kick coverage" when we essentially see him do those things in highlights of his year at Tennessee. They're not necessarily bubble screens but in the two plays I linked to above, he shows that he just needs a crease and he has the acceleration and speed to get through that window into the open field and all the way to the end zone. He shows a great burst and the ability to run away from defenders on returns too.

as does nearly every NFL return guy....but if anyone thinks this guy will make me forget about Harvin on kick returns I disagree. I might be wrong....and it's all speculation anyway.

Anyway, we agree that he has tremendous potential. I just have a hard time agreeing with the idea that he doesn't have "take it to the house" speed when there seems to be ample evidence to the contrary.

Maybe I'm not being clear. Just to be sure I had to reread my posts here. My comments on CP's speed and style were generated in response to the takes that he is the new "Harvin". Therefore i've been pointing out what I see as the contrast in their game speed and style despite their similar 40 times and the position they play.
I haven't said CP doesn't have TITTH speed... I'm saying I don't think he is in Harvin's class when it comes to that aspect, which in Harvin's case is pretty much anytime he touches the ball. I noticed some people on the board, on this and the other thread claiming he is a bigger more durable version of Harvin.

Aside from the fact that he is used to playing out of the backfield and returning kicks, I really disagree. I'd argue that a high % of guys at the "skill" positions in the league (wr rb) have take it to the house speed ....but Harvin is in an elite class. Chris Johnson, AD are a couple of others who I would lump in to that category but I don't see it with CP. Not yet anyway.


Here is a Harvin college video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZGneG7UMZY
here is a pro one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slaQwefxWHk

contrast it with CP's and see how many times Harvin gets run down from behind and how far behind he leaves guys ala AD when he gets just a smidge of daylight and especially how little east west running Harvin does. Harvin runs between the tackles whereas CP appears to seek the edge.

I think CP's real talent is as a legitimate WR who beats one or two guys with his size and speed hopefully to catch a ball in stride from the other CP. I don't see CP beating entire defenses by running all over the field at the next level. Harvin does it, but he does it running right by people north south....

I'm no Harvin homer either. The way things turned out, i'm glad he's gone. I think CP has every chance to be twice the receiver Harvin ever will be, he seems to have all the natural tools.... and hopefully he doesn't fill the void of being a huge headache for the Vikes.

[Demi]

I see him actually being a way better receiver than Harvin once he learns the game.

"Once". Williamson is going to be amazing once he learns the position too! Let's sign Jamarcus Russell! Once he learns the QB position, skys the limit with that arm!

Thank god he can contribute in ways other than as a true outside wide receiver, there are a lot more "if"s in this league than "once"s. At least he should be able to help the team in the mean time. Hopefully he can learn the game. He's got the size Harvin didn't have. And the Harvin ability Williamson didn't have. So there's a bit more in his favor. It's clear at this point it's whether or not they can get through to him mentally. And maybe just as much, emotionally.

[The Breeze]

"Once". Williamson is going to be amazing once he learns the position too! Let's sign Jamarcus Russell! Once he learns the QB position, skys the limit with that arm!

Thank god he can contribute in ways other than as a true outside wide receiver, there are a lot more "if"s in this league than "once"s. At least he should be able to help the team in the mean time. Hopefully he can learn the game. He's got the size Harvin didn't have. And the Harvin ability Williamson didn't have. So there's a bit more in his favor. It's clear at this point it's whether or not they can get through to him mentally. And maybe just as much, emotionally.

"If" is the more apt word. It's true....he may not ever pan out as a bona-fide wideout and would have to rely on his multi position athleticism to remain viable. That's why I credit Spielman and his staff for pulling the trigger on this kid. It's like taking a shot down field on 3rd and 1. I like the instinct of it....hopefully it all clicks.

[saint33]

I think one thing that needs to be kept in mind when we're talking about Patterson's rawness in comparison to other raw gifted WRs from the past, such as a Williamson, is the amount of time Patterson's actually had to develop. When you look at Troy Williamson, it took him 3 years to develop within a reduced system before he was even able to produce at the college level, physical talent withstanding. When Williamson came out as a more raw talent, he was behind the learning curve in not only what he was taught South Carolina, but where he should have been at in regards to the amount of time he had to develop.

With Patterson however, he spent 5 total months in Tennessee. To put that in perspective, that's one month more than the Vikings will have with him before the start of the season. In JUCO he wasn't asked to learn the NFL route tree or the intricacies of running routes and learning the game. He relied on his immense physical talents. He came to Tennessee and had to learn on the fly, and despite that, he was still able to produce and be the SEC All Purpose player of the year. His physical talents alone were far greater than Williamson's and you saw that with the immediate impact he made. When you look at the kid as a raw prospect, the comparison to a guy like Williamson isn't accurate in my mind because Williamson was behind in what he learned with multiple years to learn it. With Patterson, while he is behind the other WRs in this class as far as what he knows, it's hard to say that it has anything to do with his ability to learn and develop as apposed to the simple fact that he didn't have enough time to learn and develop to the same level of other WRs in this draft class. Williamson wasn't necessarily behind other prospects in what was presented to him, he just hadn't developed at the same speed of other players around him, where as Patterson isn't necessarily behind in his development considering the time he's been exposed to the more advanced teachings, he just hasn't been exposed to as much or had the time to learn as much as others because he's spent most his college career in JUCO.

So in essence, while it's still a projection to say that Patterson will be able to develop as a pure WR prospect, there's also not the same concerns as you see with other raw prospects because he hasn't struggled to learn what has been presented to him, he's simply not be presented as much as others have.

[headless_norseman]

I think another good angle at moving up to take Patterson is this. It's much easier to go 3/3 in the first round, than it is to go 5/5 in the first five rounds.

[PurpleHalo]

I think one thing that needs to be kept in mind when we're talking about Patterson's rawness in comparison to other raw gifted WRs from the past, such as a Williamson, is the amount of time Patterson's actually had to develop. When you look at Troy Williamson, it took him 3 years to develop within a reduced system before he was even able to produce at the college level, physical talent withstanding. When Williamson came out as a more raw talent, he was behind the learning curve in not only what he was taught South Carolina, but where he should have been at in regards to the amount of time he had to develop.

With Patterson however, he spent 5 total months in Tennessee. To put that in perspective, that's one month more than the Vikings will have with him before the start of the season. In JUCO he wasn't asked to learn the NFL route tree or the intricacies of running routes and learning the game. He relied on his immense physical talents. He came to Tennessee and had to learn on the fly, and despite that, he was still able to produce and be the SEC All Purpose player of the year. His physical talents alone were far greater than Williamson's and you saw that with the immediate impact he made. When you look at the kid as a raw prospect, the comparison to a guy like Williamson isn't
accurate in my mind because Williamson was behind in what he learned with multiple years to
learn it. With Patterson, while he is behind the other WRs in this class as far as what he knows, it's hard to say that it has anything to do with his ability to learn and develop as apposed to the simple
fact that he didn't have enough time to learn and develop to the same level of other WRs in this
draft class. Williamson wasn't necessarily behind other prospects in what was presented to him, he
just hadn't developed at the same speed of other players around him, where as Patterson isn't
necessarily behind in his development considering the time he's been exposed to the more
advanced teachings, he just hasn't been exposed to as much or had the time to learn as much as
others because he's spent most his college career in JUCO.





So in essence, while it's still a projection to say that Patterson will be able to develop as a pure WR prospect, there's also not the same concerns as you see with other raw prospects because he hasn't struggled to learn what has been presented to him, he's simply not be presented as much as others have.

Well stated! You know much about his high school days? Often times great skill players were men amongst boys at that level.

[Mothman]

as does nearly every NFL return guy....but if anyone thinks this guy will make me forget about Harvin on kick returns I disagree. I might be wrong....and it's all speculation anyway. Maybe I'm not being clear. Just to be sure I had to reread my posts here. My comments on CP's speed and style were generated in response to the takes that he is the new "Harvin". Therefore i've been pointing out what I see as the contrast in their game speed and style despite their similar 40 times and the position they play.
I haven't said CP doesn't have TITTH speed... I'm saying I don't think he is in Harvin's class when it comes to that aspect, which in Harvin's case is pretty much anytime he touches the ball. I noticed some people on the board, on this and the other thread claiming he is a bigger more durable version of Harvin.

Aside from the fact that he is used to playing out of the backfield and returning kicks, I really disagree. I'd argue that a high % of guys at the "skill" positions in the league (wr rb) have take it to the house speed ....but Harvin is in an elite class. Chris Johnson, AD are a couple of others who I would lump in to that category but I don't see it with CP. Not yet anyway.


Here is a Harvin college video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZGneG7UMZY
here is a pro one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slaQwefxWHk

contrast it with CP's and see how many times Harvin gets run down from behind and how far behind he leaves guys ala AD when he gets just a smidge of daylight and especially how little east west running Harvin does. Harvin runs between the tackles whereas CP appears to seek the edge.

I think CP's real talent is as a legitimate WR who beats one or two guys with his size and speed hopefully to catch a ball in stride from the other CP. I don't see CP beating entire defenses by running all over the field at the next level. Harvin does it, but he does it running right by people north south....

I'm no Harvin homer either. The way things turned out, i'm glad he's gone. I think CP has every chance to be twice the receiver Harvin ever will be, he seems to have all the natural tools.... and hopefully he doesn't fill the void of being a huge headache for the Vikes.

Thanks for the clarification. I apologize, I mis-read the degree to which you were focused on comparing Harvin and Patterson in your comments and consequently, I think I misunderstood some of what you were saying.

[hibbingviking]

this is the first time a feel pretty good about our offense since culpepper and moss.

[DanAS]

this is the first time a feel pretty good about our offense since culpepper and moss.

I won't feel good about it until we have a quarterback who I like. But I DO feel good about the fact that we appear to be plugging holes, and if the only hole left on the offense is a decent QB, I can faith that we can find one soon enough during an off-season.

Remember -- I've been a fan of this team for many decades. It's not enough for me that they have a QB who can lead them to the playoffs. It's World Championship or Bust for me, or at least World Championship Contention or Bust. And to contend, we either need a top tier QB (not a "game manager") or one of the best defenses of all time. I don't think we have either one of those.

[Purple bruise]

RS discusses the later round picks: http://www.vikings.com/media-vault/vide ... 20c7285ff3

[hibbingviking]

I won't feel good about it until we have a quarterback who I like. But I DO feel good about the fact that we appear to be plugging holes, and if the only hole left on the offense is a decent QB, I can faith that we can find one soon enough during an off-season.

Remember -- I've been a fan of this team for many decades. It's not enough for me that they have a QB who can lead them to the playoffs. It's World Championship or Bust for me, or at least World Championship Contention or Bust. And to contend, we either need a top tier QB (not a "game manager") or one of the best defenses of all time. I don't think we have either one of those.

I agree. its almost like winning the lottery finding a real franchise qb. packers got lucky. maybe we can land aj mccaron ,tajh boyd, bridgewater, or aaron murray in next years draft. better draft class for qb's next year.