Just Me wrote:
I don't think you and I are actually disagreeing that much here and I'll try to make my post a little clearer (In re-reading it, I can see where it would be confusing).
You had stated (my paraphrase here) the fact that Webb starting "wasn't helping matters" with Peterson having to carry the team. Your statement was that when Green Bay figured out how to "stop" AD then we were sunk. I really wanted to only point out 2 things:
1) 99 yards by a back is normally a "good game" (not being stopped); and
2) Since Webb played that game (not Ponder) - To say he "didn't help matters" (with me thinking the "matter" was if AD is "shut down" we lose) I was trying to make the point (admittedly in a confusing way) that since Ponder didn't play we don't know if:
a) Peterson gets "held" to only 99 yards since Ponder is a better QB than Webb and the defense may have to play more "honest"; and
b) even if he does get "held" to 99 yards, are you certain that Ponder loses that game.
My point was that Webb lost the game. Ponder might have won it.
Peterson seemed to indicate during an interview that if Ponder had been playing in Green Bay, the Vikings may well have won.
Sorry for the confusion...
Oh I agree. but I think where we would disagree is, if we had Sage we win that game as likely as if we had Ponder. Im still at the same place with Ponder as I was early-mid season. Too many ups and downs. No real downfield passing. No audibles. He has more single coverages then anyne in the NFL yet cant take advatage of it. I do not believe he is a good QB. Nor will he be one. If he wasnt Spielmans Pet project, and taken 12th overall, he might not even be on the team.
Anyways I usually do agree with you, and many other here. Im just ticked that PH is leaving. Othere seem so happy. I dont see Spielman hitting the jackpot on hte draft again. But I could be wrong. And other then Felton (who for whatever reason hasnt been resigned but Carlson has) I dont trust his FAs.
Mothman wrote:
I don't think he was trying to give Ponder credit for Harvin's production. He was just pointing out (rightly so) that Harvin was very productive with Ponder throwing the ball to him. In other words, Harvin's production wasn't exactly suffering because of his QB's performance.
You're exactly right Mothman. And for someone to think a QB shouldn't get some of the credit for a WR's production is twisting perspectives and ludicrous. Handing a ball off to someone vs throwing it to someone is not the same thing so I'm not sure how the comparison to Peterson came about.
I loved Harvin and his efforts for the Vikings, but to me, something isn't adding up. He would have continued to be a problem for the Vikes, so I'm glad they moved him and got 3 picks for him.
Did Percy work with Ponder last off season? Because he has already set up work outs with Wilson. If not, it tells me that he never wanted it to work out.
Vikings fan since Nov. 6, 1966. Annoying Packer fans since Nov. 7, 1966
mrc44 wrote:
You are out of your mind! how can he be considered one of the best WR when he has never caught over 1k yards? He is one of the best All Around players, like Hester, and Cribbs, And McCluster, etc. HE IS NOT one of the best WR. he has never accomplished anything at that position that is worth noting. WE all are just amazed by his talent and explosivness.
Solely as a WR, I would agree with this, but he is much more valuable then any of those guys you mentioned.
I am neither a ponder supporter nor appologist, but I never liked the pick to begin with. I want to see Ponder succeed and I think he has some of the qualities needed by a great QB. BUT when you hear some of the comments made by Harvin at his presser, it really shows you just how much he never praised or pumped Ponder's tires. I really fear that Ponder has not only set this team back a few years at QB, but now we are starting again at WR looking for a difference maker. It really is unfortunate that the Harvin situation ended like this, but hopefully Ponder turns a corner and is able to prove everyone wrong.
This team better make a serious attempt to bring in some quality wide receivers during free agency. Losing Harvin was tough. Try to get Jennings and possibly Amendola. Draft the best receiver available with the 23rd pick. If they have a good receiver corp. this year, we should see Ponder start to prevail. I haven't said one negative thing about him as yet. His position takes time to develop. As Ackman said last season...." Joe Montana couldn't complete a pass to these guys". They draft a Q.B., give him no receivers, and expect him to succeed in a passing league. GO FIGURE!!
mrc44 wrote:i agree as well and I think he has the potential to be even better. but to say he is a top wr is ridiculous. and honestly even though ponder is not wilson, he probably would have reached his potential here before seattle, since he was considered our ONLY wr worth throwing to.
Pretty much how I felt and said it all along. His best fit outside of Minnesota was NE, because those are the two places that would utilize every ounce of his versatility and he would be the #1 target easily. We'll see how it plays out in Seattle, but apparently he said he's not concerned about touches so long as they're winning.
Percy came on the local radio show here in Seattle for an interview and from everything he said, it definitely sounds like the reason was Ponder. I didn't care to watch his press conference so most of you probably already figured this, but this pretty much sold it for me.
He was asked about having sour relationships with his coaches at every level and he said that he just laughs at all the reports because he has text messages from Frazier and other coaches that say otherwise...about them loving Percy and how they're going to miss him.
When asked why he wasn't utilized deep since his rookie year he said it was a mix of the offensive scheme and quarterback. Although the question was framed to include Ponder, he didn't deny that it was one big part he wasn't going long anymore.
Overall, it's hard to hate him really after hearing that. Just makes me wonder what REALLY went down. Time to move on, I suppose...
I'm not a Ponder fan but Harvin is definitely selfish. Ponder is the developmental type of QB which takes a little time for him to really reach his potential. Plus I don't think it's fair to put the blame on Ponder. Yes Ponder was a reach in the draft and I think the Vikings threw him into the fire once the McNabb experience failed. But as a WR, you're suppose to help your QB. I don't think there was much chemistry with Ponder and Harvin. Instead of complaining about what Ponder isn't able to do he should have been with Ponder after practice catching passes.
But now thats why we have Greg Jennings. A WR who is willing to work with Ponder through his development. Unlike Harvin who puts himself before the team. QB isn't the only hole on the team. WRs was pretty mediocre this past season. The O-Line was average at best. The play calling is still vanilla but Adrian Peterson made it work. But when the team struggles, it's always easy to blame the QB.
The point Im making is that Ponder is the QB for now, you can't give up on the team (like Harvin did) just because you don't trust the QB. Especially when you have guys like Adrian Peterson and Jared Allen who work their butts off regardless of who is on the team. To quit because of Ponder is selfish. You don't see the rest of the players giving up on the QB. Giving up on him will only make his morale lower. Keep hope alive and pray that Ponder will get better!!!
