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Mothman wrote:
Maybe it's an indication of how the people putting together the mock drafts view the talent levels at LB, DT and WR. I think anyone paying attention can see that LB is a need for the Vikes so if a lot of mock drafts have them picking a DT or WR, perhaps the explanation is that they think there's better talent available at those positions when the Vikes pick in R1.
I don't know. I don't pay much attention to mock drafts at this time of year anyway.
Jim, I think you're right the BPA's around the Vikings pick seem to be heavy in the WR/LB/DT positions. Corner seems pretty weak around our pick and there looks to be some good WR's in round 2, which might be why so many mocks have us going in another direction in round 1.
Someone else who should be in the conversation is Matt Elam. He and Smith would make for an amazing combo in the backfield.
Like many Florida players, Elam signed with the Gators as a very highly regarded prep prospect.
He was primarily a reserve defensive back in his first season with the team, though he did start on special teams (kickoff coverage, return) and finished his true freshman campaign with 22 tackles, including two for loss.
Elam emerged as a standout once given the opportunity to start last season. He finished the year second on the team in total tackles (78) and led the club in tackles for loss (11), pass breakups (seven) and forced fumbles (two). He also intercepted two passes last year, including one against Tennessee's Tyler Bray.
While perhaps a bit smaller than scouts would prefer (5-10, 202 pounds), Elam has proven himself to be a playmaker throughout his career, demonstrating not only instincts, athleticism and physicality, but ball-hawking skills (six interceptions) and timing as well.
The two-year starter was at his best under the brightest of lights, making game-changing plays against Florida State, Georgia, LSU and Tennessee, and pacing the Gators with 11 tackles, including a sack, in the Sugar Bowl loss to Louisville.
Athletic, instinctive and quite physical, Elam demonstrated the ability to walk up into the box and be a force near the line of scrimmage while also dropping back into coverage as a single-high safety when coaches called for it -- showing off the type of versatility NFL teams are demanding from today's hybrid safeties. Elam shows good vision and anticipation when fighting through blocks near the line of scrimmage and is a reliable, physical tackler.
S197 wrote:Jim, I think you're right the BPA's around the Vikings pick seem to be heavy in the WR/LB/DT positions.
Inside 4-3 linebackers? Usually there aren't more than one, maybe two of these projected for the first round. Most of the high linebacker prospects these days are pass rushers fitting the 3-4 OLB mold.
Darius Slay - DB - Bulldogs NFL Draft insider Tony Pauline passes along word that Mississippi State CB Darius Slay is "flying up draft boards."
Pauline heard from "a number of scouts" at the Senior Bowl that they were disappointed Slay wasn't invited to Mobile. After transferring from JUCO, Slay spent his junior season with the Bulldogs as a nickel back and special teamer. He broke out as a senior starter opposite more heralded Johnthan Banks, leading Mississippi State with five interceptions and returning one to the house. Slay is a player to watch during next month's Scouting Combine. Source: Tony Pauline on Twitter
--- Desmond Trufant - DB - Huskies
NFL scouts are reportedly universally branding Washington CB Desmond Trufant a "lock first-round pick."
Built like older brother Marcus, Desmond measured 5-foot-11 1/8 and 190 pounds in Mobile before turning in a stellar week of practices. A 47-game starter at Washington, Trufant recorded just six career interceptions but was an impact cover corner on a bad Huskies defense. He appears to be competing with Mississippi State's Johnthan Banks to be the No. 2 cornerback drafted behind Dee Milliner. Source: Tony Pauline on Twitter
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
Florida junior DT Sharrif Floyd is "generating a ton of buzz" in the scouting community, according to the NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah.
Jeremiah spoke with one high ranking NFL exec who guaranteed Floyd would be a top-10 pick. The Florida product is an absolute ox and should be mentioned with the likes of Star Lotulelei and Sheldon Richardson. Teams could be interested in Floyd as a five technique end since he spent some time there in college, as well. Source: Daniel Jeremiah on Twitter
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
Florida junior DT Sharrif Floyd is "generating a ton of buzz" in the scouting community, according to the NFL Network's Daniel Jeremiah.
Jeremiah spoke with one high ranking NFL exec who guaranteed Floyd would be a top-10 pick. The Florida product is an absolute ox and should be mentioned with the likes of Star Lotulelei and Sheldon Richardson. Teams could be interested in Floyd as a five technique end since he spent some time there in college, as well. Source: Daniel Jeremiah on Twitter
Well, Damn. Sharrif is a guy I was hoping we could snag at #23.
A Randy Moss fan for life. A Kevin Williams fan for life.
vikings need to build inside out starting in the trenches. i like the youth we have now and the coaching staff. too many teams change there coaching staff too often.
Value is more important than need, always. That's how Spielman has drafted in the past (and it was Denny Green's mantra...drafting was one of the only things that he was fairly decent at), and that's probably how it's going to go this year.
There are three guards that are probably first round picks in this draft. However, there are some really good ones that can be had in the second. Warmack is definitely first round value, but he's probably going to go in the top 10. Barrett Jones is a possibility...but here's the thing about drafting guards in the first round:
Unless you know this guy is going to step up, guaranteed, and be a Pro Bowl caliber guy in the first year...you don't take that guy in the first round. The thing about guards is that a lot of them are tackles that slipped because they're not fast enough to play tackle in the NFL. That means that if you want a good guard for a reasonable pick, you look at the late 2nd to early 4th round. There are plenty of them in those rounds. The Vikings have kind of held off for the 5th and 6th rounds for guards over the past few years, and they haven't really been awesome. There are often plenty of good guards on the free agent market if you don't go cheap (like the Vikings have in the past).
You don't need to take one in the first unless you're completely weak at both guard positions, and the Vikings have at least one guard that is worth starting.
Wide receiver is an obvious need, and it's one that's usually best served in the first or second round. However...when you have a deep pool and only a few guys who will probably be gone early that are guaranteed standouts, you might as well wait a round to draft.
At linebacker, there are 3 guys that you would want to build your defense around, and after that, there are some guys that might push your current guys and get some special teams work. One of those good ones will probably be around when the Vikings pick.
If you want Ponder in a slightly different package, feel free to want them to draft a quarterback. We can have another quarterback controversy and that's fun for everybody. It's not a draft where there is a guy that everyone can point at and say "that guy is going to own that job".
Defensive tackles are great to take early. If the Vikings had a top 15 pick, I'd be all in on that. The interior of the Vikings defense is falling apart. It's just not good. Guion is a backup, Williams is visibly slowing down. When teams figured out they could carry the ball against the Vikings if they had a fast runner, they did so quite easily. You had their two pass rushing ends out of position and interior guys who didn't have enough motor to stuff the run. Other than Greenway, it was kind of a mess. Brinkley wasn't even the second or third best tackler, it was Harrison Smith and Antoine Winfield. You don't want it to be those guys because it means that the other team has gained solid yards on you most of the time.
A very good defense (like the Steelers) has at three linebackers among their top five tacklers. The top two tacklers on the Steelers are linebackers. It's partially a result of their scheme, but if your safeties and corners are making most of your tackles, it's generally indicative of a problem in your linebacking corps. One great linebacker does not equal 3 solid linebackers. The Vikings defense is average. 16th out of 32 teams. The Steelers defense is 1st. The worst defense, New Orleans, has 2 safeties, a defensive end, and a corner in their top 5. Lofton is a good linebacker, but Vilma didn't play most of the season and wasn't a big deal when he did play until near the last game.
That is why the Saints had to score about 35 points a game to have a chance of winning this year. They could do it, too, because they have a very good quarterback. The Vikings don't have a lot of options at quarterback, Ponder is pretty much it...there isn't a whole lot in this draft to equal Drew Brees, there isn't anything like that in free agency (Alex Smith and Matt Flynn are your big names there). So their best bet is to shore up their defense and win with their running back, ball control, and taking what opposing defenses give them. I know those are all cliches, but that was what worked for the Vikings last year when they won games. This draft will give them an ability to stabilize and upgrade spots that need an upgrade, but there's no instant fix here.
That is my basic argument as to why I'd be in favor of taking a linebacker early. Having an opposing offense get, on the average, 3 yards vs. 4 yards makes a huge difference that you can't see until you realize that 3 downs of 4 yards is going to end up a touchdown if they keep up that pace. 3 downs of 3 yards will usually end up as a punt (unless they go for it, of course). That's where having good linebackers makes a huge difference.
Rus wrote:Value is more important than need, always.
Yeah I agree the Vikings have enough holes that they should find someone with great value that still fills a position of need. Barrett Jones should go in the 1st, the guy is a monster. The Vikings are desperate for a receiver but I've seen a lot of mock drafts where good WR's fall into the 2nd (Robert Woods, etc.). If for some reason Te'o falls to the Vikings that would be a tremendous pickup and huge upgrade to the position but the guy no one is talking about is Matt Barkley. A year ago he's probably a top 5 pick and now I've seen him going as low as the 2nd round. Will he be an Aaron Rodgers or a Brady Quinn? Who knows and it looks like Ponder will be the guy next year but if we're really talking about value in the draft, Barkley might have the most value as a late round 1st pick.
fiestavike wrote:
Should Chance Warmack be gone, and Lane Johnson be on the board at 23, what do you think about plugging him in at RT and sliding Loadholt inside to G? I like upgrading 2 positions with one pick.
Depends on who is on the board at #23, but given that I expect the Vikes to keep Loadholt and the fact that he played very well for them this year I doubt they'd place a high value on the RT position at #23. Plus, I'm not sure whether either Johnson or Loadholt would make good guards at the pro level. Loadholt has played right tackle his entire career and as far as I'm aware only played tackle in college. He might be better at guard than Fusco, but then again, he might not.
With that said, I like Johnson's skill set. He has the potential to develop into an excellent right tackle in the pros.
S197 wrote:
Yeah I agree the Vikings have enough holes that they should find someone with great value that still fills a position of need. Barrett Jones should go in the 1st, the guy is a monster. The Vikings are desperate for a receiver but I've seen a lot of mock drafts where good WR's fall into the 2nd (Robert Woods, etc.). If for some reason Te'o falls to the Vikings that would be a tremendous pickup and huge upgrade to the position but the guy no one is talking about is Matt Barkley. A year ago he's probably a top 5 pick and now I've seen him going as low as the 2nd round. Will he be an Aaron Rodgers or a Brady Quinn? Who knows and it looks like Ponder will be the guy next year but if we're really talking about value in the draft, Barkley might have the most value as a late round 1st pick.
Wasn't Jones playing hurt towards the end of the season? I'd have to assume it isn't very serious if he's being talked about as a 1st round pick.
All things considered, I think the Vikes need upgrades at both guard positions. Johnson is too inconsistent, and Fusco is not strong enough to get away with any lapses in his technique. Of the two, Fusco is the one I'd replace first just because when he got blown up, he really seemed to get blown up. Maybe with another offseason in the weight room he can close the gap a bit. I like him as a player otherwise, but getting a guy like a (healthy) Jones in there could be a real boon for both Ponder and AD.
As for Barkley, I'm less sold on him. Physically, he's not that big (he lists at 6'2", 230# on the walterfootball website), has never completed a very high percentage of his passes, has a middling TD-INT ratio for a big-name prospect, and reviews talk about his worrisome decision-making. On the walterfootball site his summary mentions that he was under a lot of pressure due to Kalil leaving, but what does that mean? Pro QB's are going to be under a lot of pressure even if they have really good lines and great running games behind them, so if a guy can't display good decision-making skills under pressure in college, what makes anyone think he'll be able to do it in the pros?
Barkley looks like a 5th round developmental prospect to me. I know he was touted as a potential high 1st rounder last year, but this guy doesn't strike me as any more promising a prospect than John David Booty. He played QB for a high profile school that surrounded him with tons of NFL-caliber talent and despite that his production was very average throughout his college career. To spend #23 on him would be a huge waste. He's not the next Rodgers, of that I'm fairly certain.
Minnesota Vikings: Keenan Allen, WR, California
The front office has to add more talent to complement a very inconsistent Christian Ponder. The Vikings need an upgrade across from Percy Harvin, as Jerome Simpson is way too inconsistent to be a No. 2 receiver. Harvin may not even be back with the Vikings next year, so Minnesota may target two wideout upgrades this offseason.
Minnesota Vikings: Sylvester Williams, DT, North Carolina
The Vikings can address one of their biggest needs with arguably the best player available. Defensive tackle is a big issue right now; Kevin Williams will turn 33 in August, and there's no one of note playing next to him. Letroy Guion is a decent rotational guy but should not be a starter. Besides, reuniting the Williams Wall could excite Minnesota fans.
Minnesota Vikings: Tony Jefferson, S, Oklahoma
As noted in my Minnesota Vikings NFL Offseason Needs, Harrison Smith deserves Rookie of the Year consideration, but he's the only talented safety on Minnesota's roster.
Minnesota Vikings: A.J. Klein, ILB, Iowa State
Jasper Brinkley needs to be upgraded, so the Vikings will be looking for middle linebacker help at some point this offseason. Manti Te'o, Alec Ogletree and Kevin Minter are strong possibilities in Round 1. If Minnesota takes someone else, a prospect like A.J. Klein would make sense at this juncture.
Minnesota Vikings: Hugh Thornton, G, Illinois
The Vikings could stand to bolster in the interior of their offensive line, as neither Charlie Johnson nor Brandon Fusco played well at guard this year.
Me personally, I have no problem with this draft. I would rather have Sean Porter at the Top of the 4th though if he falls that far or Jon Bostic from Florida over A.J. Klein, but I think the 1st 2 picks are great picks, don't know much about Jefferson and of course depth at the Guard position is needed. So this would be a pretty good draft if the Vikings were able to pull this off.
VikingLord wrote:
Wasn't Jones playing hurt towards the end of the season? I'd have to assume it isn't very serious if he's being talked about as a 1st round pick.
All things considered, I think the Vikes need upgrades at both guard positions. Johnson is too inconsistent, and Fusco is not strong enough to get away with any lapses in his technique. Of the two, Fusco is the one I'd replace first just because when he got blown up, he really seemed to get blown up. Maybe with another offseason in the weight room he can close the gap a bit. I like him as a player otherwise, but getting a guy like a (healthy) Jones in there could be a real boon for both Ponder and AD.
As for Barkley, I'm less sold on him. Physically, he's not that big (he lists at 6'2", 230# on the walterfootball website), has never completed a very high percentage of his passes, has a middling TD-INT ratio for a big-name prospect, and reviews talk about his worrisome decision-making. On the walterfootball site his summary mentions that he was under a lot of pressure due to Kalil leaving, but what does that mean? Pro QB's are going to be under a lot of pressure even if they have really good lines and great running games behind them, so if a guy can't display good decision-making skills under pressure in college, what makes anyone think he'll be able to do it in the pros?
Barkley looks like a 5th round developmental prospect to me. I know he was touted as a potential high 1st rounder last year, but this guy doesn't strike me as any more promising a prospect than John David Booty. He played QB for a high profile school that surrounded him with tons of NFL-caliber talent and despite that his production was very average throughout his college career. To spend #23 on him would be a huge waste. He's not the next Rodgers, of that I'm fairly certain.
Yeah I think Jones was playing injured in the national championship game. Didn't seem to be very serious.
As for Barkley, I was never really high on him (where he was initially projected) but look how terrible USC looked when he went down. That offense was just plain sad without him. The amount of busts that USC produces at the position is certainly troubling but I think he's going to be one of the more intriguing stories to watch unfold on draft day.
I think there is quite a bit of talent on this team going into the draft and that they did an outstanding job last draft. There are a few places of obvious need on both sides of the ball...but for the long haul, IMO, depth across the board is just as critical as any one position.
While this team made the playoffs and got the most out of many of their starters, they are really thin at every position except DE, RB, and TE. They are one injury away at a few positions from fielding a scrub-type player. Just like what happened this season at WR and last season at DB.
I don't want to see them be too seduced by the 1 and done postseason this year and reach for a guy at LB or WR when a stud DB or OL/G etc might be there for the taking. I want them to stick to team building long term and improving the guys they have by drafting the BPA, as long as it's not a RB, OT, DE or TE.
Not very sexy....but I think the culture that Spielman and Fraizer are building is legit. I'd like to see them work it for more picks and just methodically add more pieces who fit this system both physically and mentally.
Overall, I feel the best I have about the direction of this team since the Denny Green days....the good Denny Green days.
In the 4th or 5th round. I would love for the Vikings organization to take a look at Chris Jones DT from Bowling Green. I realize BG doesn't exactly play in the best conference, but talent is talent. There are plays where this kid is unblockable...UNBLOCKABLE! He doesn't rank on anyone's board but you can youtube him and check him out for yourselves.
petev_sj wrote:In the 4th or 5th round. I would love for the Vikings organization to take a look at Chris Jones DT from Bowling Green. I realize BG doesn't exactly play in the best conference, but talent is talent. There are plays where this kid is unblockable...UNBLOCKABLE! He doesn't rank on anyone's board but you can youtube him and check him out for yourselves.
Hey John Randle did OK for a guy who played for a division II team (Texas A&I) just sayin......
Do not mistake KINDNESS for WEAKNESS!
Best to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool rather than open it and remove all doubt.
