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102 points and 1,320 yards in first 3 games is most given up in franchise history, that is sad

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.twinci ... story/amp/

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:29 pm 102 points and 1,320 yards in first 3 games is most given up in franchise history, that is sad

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.twinci ... story/amp/

And guys are sitting here complaining about Cousins Cousins has had his share of problems but like I've been saying all along, there are MUCH BIGGER problems on this team right now.

Injuries and poor cap management, and familiarity with the Zimmer defensive scheme have made this defense a shell of its former self, but scoring is up all over the league, not just against the Vikings.

If you are playing fantasy football you are seeing point totals regularly that you typically see once a season. TD and yards everywhere.

It is either officiating or the league having more talented offenses.

It looks like there are only 6 truly bad offenses this year:
No names
Jets
Giants
Broncos
Chargers
Eagles

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:38 am

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:29 pm 102 points and 1,320 yards in first 3 games is most given up in franchise history, that is sad

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.twinci ... story/amp/

And guys are sitting here complaining about Cousins Cousins has had his share of problems but like I've been saying all along, there are MUCH BIGGER problems on this team right now.

Kind of a non sequitur, don't you think?

Unless you want to discuss the impact of paying a QB 10+% of the cap on the rest of the roster and how that has contributed to the depleted defense?

This thread isn't about Cousins. Let's keep it focused on the defense and discuss him elsewhere.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:14 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:38 am

And guys are sitting here complaining about Cousins Cousins has had his share of problems but like I've been saying all along, there are MUCH BIGGER problems on this team right now.

Kind of a non sequitur, don't you think?

Unless you want to discuss the impact of paying a QB 10+% of the cap on the rest of the roster and how that has contributed to the depleted defense?

Not sure how it did?

-Joseph was getting past his prime and many of us agreed he should go.
-Waynes was overpaid on the open market, something we werent going to do whether we had a ton of cap or not
-Rhodes was horrid for the past 2 years and many agreed he should go
-Alexander and Zim clearly had some beef somewhere given we could've easily afforded a 1 year $4 million contract and passed
-Griffen....although still a solid player, he's at the back end of his prime
-They were still able to retain Harris
-They were able to sign for Michael Pierce
-They were able to trade for Yannick Ngakoue
-Danielle Hunter went on IR due to injury
-Anthony Barr went on IR due to injury
-Pierce opted out

Not sure how that contract effected much of anything in terms of our defense this year currently being depleted. We all know Spielman doesnt fish in free agency for the big name guys. Signing a guy like Pierce and building through the draft fits the same Spielman approach as usual.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:31 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 8:14 am

Kind of a non sequitur, don't you think?

Unless you want to discuss the impact of paying a QB 10+% of the cap on the rest of the roster and how that has contributed to the depleted defense?

Not sure how it did?

-Joseph was getting past his prime and many of us agreed he should go.
-Waynes was overpaid on the open market, something we werent going to do whether we had a ton of cap or not
-Rhodes was horrid for the past 2 years and many agreed he should go
-Alexander and Zim clearly had some beef somewhere given we could've easily afforded a 1 year $4 million contract and passed
-Griffen....although still a solid player, he's at the back end of his prime
-They were still able to retain Harris
-They were able to sign for Michael Pierce
-They were able to trade for Yannick Ngakoue
-Danielle Hunter went on IR due to injury
-Anthony Barr went on IR due to injury

Not sure how that contract effected much of anything in terms of our defense this year currently being depleted. We all know Spielman doesnt fish in free agency for the big name guys. Signing a guy like Pierce and building through the draft fits the same Spielman approach as usual.

Keeping the QB out of it:

-I was okay with Joseph being cut, but I am not in those practices or watching that film and seeing him still contribute in a big way.
-Rhodes was overpaid for what he was producing and had a bad year for him in 2019. 2018 he was the #1 CB on a top 5 pass defense, and played well despite the hate on message boards, by the media and by PFF. Cutting him was the right move at the time, but it is looking like a bad move now.
-Waynes, Mack and Harris all would have been cheaper in 2020 if the team had been able to afford giving them an extension in 2019. I don't think there is a beef with Mack if the Vikings had "done right by him" like they had so many of their other key players and extending him early.
-Griffen's restructure doesn't happen if the team has more cap in 2019 and he would have been forced to deal with the Vikings in 2020 instead of being able to opt out.
-Ngakoue was a terrible move if he walks next year, and he has proven he is a guy who wants to win, so why wouldn't he walk? He also has 2/3rds the pressures as Griffen and is one of the worst defensive ends against the run according to PFF.

Hunter, Pierce and Barr were out of Spielman's control, but this is still a below average defense even with those guys. The secondary would still be a disaster and there would be nothing at 3 tech DT. No doubt the D would be better, but not SB contention better, probably not even 1 and done in the playoffs better.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:54 am Injuries and poor cap management, and familiarity with the Zimmer defensive scheme have made this defense a shell of its former self, but scoring is up all over the league, not just against the Vikings.

If you are playing fantasy football you are seeing point totals regularly that you typically see once a season. TD and yards everywhere.

It is either officiating or the league having more talented offenses.

Kevin Siefert just wrote an article about this that I think you'll find interesting:

How the NFL is manipulating games in 2020: Fewer holding calls, faster games and way more offense

Mothman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:34 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:54 am Injuries and poor cap management, and familiarity with the Zimmer defensive scheme have made this defense a shell of its former self, but scoring is up all over the league, not just against the Vikings.

If you are playing fantasy football you are seeing point totals regularly that you typically see once a season. TD and yards everywhere.

It is either officiating or the league having more talented offenses.

Kevin Siefert just wrote an article about this that I think you'll find interesting:

How the NFL is manipulating games in 2020: Fewer holding calls, faster games and way more offense

What a disgrace. Shows just how easy it would be to fix and manipulate game outcomes more generally.

I hope the NFL viewership craters. I am not watching anymore.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:38 am

RandyMoss84 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:29 pm 102 points and 1,320 yards in first 3 games is most given up in franchise history, that is sad

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.twinci ... story/amp/

And guys are sitting here complaining about Cousins Cousins has had his share of problems but like I've been saying all along, there are MUCH BIGGER problems on this team right now.

You can complain about both.

YikesVikes wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:33 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:38 am

And guys are sitting here complaining about Cousins Cousins has had his share of problems but like I've been saying all along, there are MUCH BIGGER problems on this team right now.

You can complain about both.

If he's losing us games, sure. This past week vs. Tennessee that was not the case. However, the defense has done this time and time again this year. Lowest point total allowed was 28 points in 3 games. Only defense that's been worse is Atlanta somehow. If your offense puts up 30 points on the board, you should NOT be losing if the defense was holding up their end. Neither side of the ball has been good this year. However, the offense showed much more promise last week. The defense has shown nothing for 3 weeks now and this schedule isnt getting any easier.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:09 am but this is still a below average defense even with those guys. The secondary would still be a disaster and there would be nothing at 3 tech DT. No doubt the D would be better, but not SB contention better, probably not even 1 and done in the playoffs better.

Eh, I wouldnt say that. This defensive line would've been better. But CBs would've been worse. So if anything I think it would be a wash compared to last year. Maybe a little better given our pass rush and run defense would be better. The increased pass rush wouldnt be asking these CBs to cover for nearly as long. So really it improves two areas. I would say it would definitely be a solid defense with some inexperience at CB. Sure we'd be missing a viable 3 tech but we were last year as well.

Mothman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:34 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:54 am Injuries and poor cap management, and familiarity with the Zimmer defensive scheme have made this defense a shell of its former self, but scoring is up all over the league, not just against the Vikings.

If you are playing fantasy football you are seeing point totals regularly that you typically see once a season. TD and yards everywhere.

It is either officiating or the league having more talented offenses.

Kevin Siefert just wrote an article about this that I think you'll find interesting:

How the NFL is manipulating games in 2020: Fewer holding calls, faster games and way more offense

What a bad time to have a head coach who prioritizes defense.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:32 pm

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:09 am but this is still a below average defense even with those guys. The secondary would still be a disaster and there would be nothing at 3 tech DT. No doubt the D would be better, but not SB contention better, probably not even 1 and done in the playoffs better.

Eh, I wouldnt say that. This defensive line would've been better. But CBs would've been worse. So if anything I think it would be a wash compared to last year. Maybe a little better given our pass rush and run defense would be better. The increased pass rush wouldnt be asking these CBs to cover for nearly as long. So really it improves two areas. I would say it would definitely be a solid defense with some inexperience at CB. Sure we'd be missing a viable 3 tech but we were last year as well.

Are you saying that the secondary we have this year is better than the one we had last year? I just want to clarify because that is a bold statement based on the first 3 weeks of the season.

My point was that with this current secondary, even if with Hunter, Barr and Pierce, this defense would be below average and giving up a lot of points. Not as susceptible to the run, but teams would still be passing at will on us.

The pass rush has not been the problem as much as players are open too quickly downfield and it isn't allowing our Dline time to get to the QB.

Just to prove what I mean, in week 1, Rodgers threw the ball in under 2.5 seconds 31 times and over 2.5 seconds just 13 times. Rivers threw it 15 times under 2.5 to 10 over. Tannehill 23 under to 16 over.

That is a very small number of attempts over 2.5 seconds that would even allow our lineman a shot at the QB. To put that in perspective, last year when we faced Rodgers in two games he had 40 attempts under 2.5 seconds, and 39 over 2.5, and was pressured a ton in those games. The secondary plays a huge role in getting pressure on the QB, and they are not playing that role this year. At all. They are awful.

Rhodes' is year was bad last year, no question about that, but even in his worst year he only gave 1.5 yards per coverage snap, which is .57 yards fewer than our #1 CB Holton Hill, .75 yards fewer than Dantzler and 1.43 yards fewer than Gladney. The only corner who has been better than Rhodes was is Hughes, and that is only by .07 yards. So the best CB this year is as bad as the worst CB last year, and would probably be worse if his teammates weren't leaving guys more open than he is.

It turns out rookies don't make good starting CBs most of the time and Hill was the #5 CB for a reason.

I don't want to give up on our rookies just yet though. Almost all rookie corners are sucking this year. There are a few exceptions like Jaylon Johnson of the Bears and L'Jarious Sneed of the Chiefs, but for the most part they have all looked like Gladney and Danztler.

News flash.

Our defense isn't very good.