Let's play "Reckless Speculation — Kirk Cousins Edition"

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

If indeed Cousins has the "play it safe" mentality, then I don't want him. Nothing drives me crazier than to have a QB that refuses to take chances. It has been my belief (and I could be completely wrong) that at some point, Cousins said to Zimmer "FINE! I'll run the play as called. You're the coach. We'll do it your way. When the play isn't there, I'll check down safely. I won't throw deep unless I see someone WIDE open or unless the play actually calls for it." And then from that point, he got so used to checking down short that he didn't even look long. So unless he just happened to see it right in front of him, it wasn't happening. If that's Cousins being Cousins, then hit the road Jack. But if that's Cousins being Zimmer, then I would really like to see him with a different coaching staff.

I could pick any random game from this year, and analyze a series of downs. It seemed most of them went this way.

1st Down - quick out to a wide receiver. Gain of 2.
2nd Down - run for no gain or a gain of 1
3rd Down - 5 yard pass completion, receiver hot immediately 2 yards short of 1st down marker.
PUNT

In that example, Cousins runs and succeeds at doing everything he was called to do. After having SO many of these types of series in a given game, that's a lot of wasted possessions. Most of the time, he wasn't given much to work with.

I do wish he had just said "Screw it" and gone off script much more, but I just don't think he wanted to deal with Zimmer anymore.

But then again, maybe he's just a wimp that's in it for a paycheck.

[vikeinmontana]

One statistic common to every champion since 2013 – a stinginess on defense. All ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. They did not allow points. That’s been the one statistic universal to the success of all Super Bowl champions – 47 of the 54 winners ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. Of the 108 teams that have reached the Super Bowl, 89 of them ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. Bottom line when your defense sucks you have zero chance of a Super Bowl. As others posted it takes a team to get the prize. You could make the playoffs but you will get booted.
Maybe our new GM has a magical QB up his sleeve that can propel a 20th + ranked scoring D to the podium. That's highly unlikely but you never know. A miracle out of nowhere.

Without a doubt. Usually the Super Bowl champ is very good on both sides of the ball. Had we had an elite defense Cousins likely would have looked much better, and who knows, we might have even made a little playoff run.

The other statistic that seems to be pretty universal to Super Bowl champions is elite QB play. Besides Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Flacco and Foles that everyone mentions in this conversation, just about every other Super Bowl champ for the last 30+ years was led by not just a top 10 QB, but a hall-of-fame QB.

In the last 30 years, here are guys (teams) who won it all:

Aikman
Young
Favre
Elway
Warner
Brady
Roethisberger
Manning
Eli Manning
Brees
Rodgers
Wilson
Mahomes

Obviously the hope is we get better on defense. I think we need to be MUCH better on defense. But it's not crazy to suggest that getting better at QB might also help us to get into the playoffs and make a run.

[CharVike]

One statistic common to every champion since 2013 – a stinginess on defense. All ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. They did not allow points. That’s been the one statistic universal to the success of all Super Bowl champions – 47 of the 54 winners ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. Of the 108 teams that have reached the Super Bowl, 89 of them ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. Bottom line when your defense sucks you have zero chance of a Super Bowl. As others posted it takes a team to get the prize. You could make the playoffs but you will get booted.
Maybe our new GM has a magical QB up his sleeve that can propel a 20th + ranked scoring D to the podium. That's highly unlikely but you never know. A miracle out of nowhere.

Another thing the media and nfl execs and fans say you can't win with a QB with zero mobility like our guy. Well Burrow had a grand total of 118 rushing yard. Maybe being able to pass helped? He only had 34 TDs though.

[J. Kapp 11]

The convenient excuse of The Cousins Crusaders — teams win and lose games, not quarterbacks.

By that logic, let’s lobby to keep Tom Brady out of the HOF. After all, his teams won those 7 Super Bowls, not him.

That is honestly such a #### obnoxiously obtuse way of looking at things that I dare not even get into the issues with that.

Needless to say, a Quarterback is part of the team. Regardless of whether they are the most important position in the league; to lay on the feet of a quarterback the singular issue of wins and losses and chalk up their entire career to that statistic is borderline sociopathic if not outright negligent to actually assessing talent. If that were the case, then guys like Joe Namath, Eli Manning, Warren Moon, Matthew Stafford, Sonny Jurgenson, and Dan Fouts are undeserving of consideration for the NFL Hall of Fame because their records have hovered around .500 their entire careers, if not below that.

You are on ignore. I don’t need people like you calling me a sociopath. Discussion over.

[J. Kapp 11]

I am getting a chuckle out of how far we have deviated from reckless speculation in this thread. Reckless speculation means to speculate recklessly which is what we’re doing. We make our wreckless speculation and along comes the half a page replies full of stats trying to convince us that our wreckless speculation is wrong. Just have fun with it and allow people to go out on a limb without trying to convince them otherwise. That’s the fun of wreckless speculation.

I will revise my wreckless speculation on that note. I speculate that the Vikings, GM and new coach will have discussed the Cousins issue and already have a plan. No speculation or page long reply citing endless stats will change their plan.

Thank you.

I don’t know whether the Vikings will actually trade Kirk Cousins to Cleveland. Heck, I made that speculation before Jim Harbaugh was a gleam in anybody’s eye. Harbaugh might say, “I love this Cousins guy!”

I was just trying to have some fun. Yet here we are, with one person actually calling me a sociopath.

The whole point was simple: What do you think the Vikings will do with Kirk Cousins, and why? I don’t know why we can’t just stick to the topic.

[StumpHunter]

One statistic common to every champion since 2013 – a stinginess on defense. All ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. They did not allow points. That’s been the one statistic universal to the success of all Super Bowl champions – 47 of the 54 winners ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. Of the 108 teams that have reached the Super Bowl, 89 of them ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. Bottom line when your defense sucks you have zero chance of a Super Bowl. As others posted it takes a team to get the prize. You could make the playoffs but you will get booted.
Maybe our new GM has a magical QB up his sleeve that can propel a 20th + ranked scoring D to the podium. That's highly unlikely but you never know. A miracle out of nowhere.

Another thing the media and nfl execs and fans say you can't win with a QB with zero mobility like our guy. Well Burrow had a grand total of 118 rushing yard. Maybe being able to pass helped? He only had 34 TDs though.

Whoever said it didn't? Pocket passers can win in this league, Brady, Brees and Manning have proven that. They just have to be that much better than their mobile counterparts at making quick decisions to overcome their athletic deficiencies. Just like a guy with an average arm has to be able to make up for not having a rocket arm by being more accurate and making better decisions. Being athletic is important to being a good QB and that isn't anything new.

Also, Burrow was the most sacked QB in the NFL this year, demonstrating that once again, it is possible to overcome poor Oline play and be successful. Just because your Oline sucks, doesn't mean your season is over.

[StumpHunter]

Gardner Minshew is the 13th highest passer rated QB through his first 4 seasons of all time. He has averaged 1.87 TDs per start, 277 yards per start and only thrown .56 ints per start throughout his career. Kirk Cousins has averaged 1.86 TDs per start averaged 271 yards per start and thrown .76 ints per start. Jameis Winston was also a pro bowl injury replacement QB at one point.

Both of those guys will either be backups or competing for a starting spot next year.

Cousins will not be a backup or competing for a starting spot. Did you mean Winston and Minshew?

Yes.

[VikingsVictorious]

If indeed Cousins has the "play it safe" mentality, then I don't want him. Nothing drives me crazier than to have a QB that refuses to take chances. It has been my belief (and I could be completely wrong) that at some point, Cousins said to Zimmer "FINE! I'll run the play as called. You're the coach. We'll do it your way. When the play isn't there, I'll check down safely. I won't throw deep unless I see someone WIDE open or unless the play actually calls for it." And then from that point, he got so used to checking down short that he didn't even look long. So unless he just happened to see it right in front of him, it wasn't happening. If that's Cousins being Cousins, then hit the road Jack. But if that's Cousins being Zimmer, then I would really like to see him with a different coaching staff.

I could pick any random game from this year, and analyze a series of downs. It seemed most of them went this way.

1st Down - quick out to a wide receiver. Gain of 2.
2nd Down - run for no gain or a gain of 1
3rd Down - 5 yard pass completion, receiver hot immediately 2 yards short of 1st down marker.
PUNT

In that example, Cousins runs and succeeds at doing everything he was called to do. After having SO many of these types of series in a given game, that's a lot of wasted possessions. Most of the time, he wasn't given much to work with.

I do wish he had just said "Screw it" and gone off script much more, but I just don't think he wanted to deal with Zimmer anymore.

But then again, maybe he's just a wimp that's in it for a paycheck.

Somehow Cousins got labeled a check down Charlie. It could hardly be further from the truth. He throws deep and is one of the most successful QBs at doing just that.

[VikingsVictorious]

One statistic common to every champion since 2013 – a stinginess on defense. All ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. They did not allow points. That’s been the one statistic universal to the success of all Super Bowl champions – 47 of the 54 winners ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. Of the 108 teams that have reached the Super Bowl, 89 of them ranked in the Top 10 in scoring defense. Bottom line when your defense sucks you have zero chance of a Super Bowl. As others posted it takes a team to get the prize. You could make the playoffs but you will get booted.
Maybe our new GM has a magical QB up his sleeve that can propel a 20th + ranked scoring D to the podium. That's highly unlikely but you never know. A miracle out of nowhere.

Without a doubt. Usually the Super Bowl champ is very good on both sides of the ball. Had we had an elite defense Cousins likely would have looked much better, and who knows, we might have even made a little playoff run.

The other statistic that seems to be pretty universal to Super Bowl champions is elite QB play. Besides Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Flacco and Foles that everyone mentions in this conversation, just about every other Super Bowl champ for the last 30+ years was led by not just a top 10 QB, but a hall-of-fame QB.

In the last 30 years, here are guys (teams) who won it all:

Aikman
Young
Favre
Elway
Warner
Brady
Roethisberger
Manning
Eli Manning
Brees
Rodgers
Wilson
Mahomes

Obviously the hope is we get better on defense. I think we need to be MUCH better on defense. But it's not crazy to suggest that getting better at QB might also help us to get into the playoffs and make a run.

If we had a better defense this year we might be one of the teams in the Super Bowl.

[vikeinmontana]

Without a doubt. Usually the Super Bowl champ is very good on both sides of the ball. Had we had an elite defense Cousins likely would have looked much better, and who knows, we might have even made a little playoff run.

The other statistic that seems to be pretty universal to Super Bowl champions is elite QB play. Besides Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Flacco and Foles that everyone mentions in this conversation, just about every other Super Bowl champ for the last 30+ years was led by not just a top 10 QB, but a hall-of-fame QB.

In the last 30 years, here are guys (teams) who won it all:

Aikman
Young
Favre
Elway
Warner
Brady
Roethisberger
Manning
Eli Manning
Brees
Rodgers
Wilson
Mahomes

Obviously the hope is we get better on defense. I think we need to be MUCH better on defense. But it's not crazy to suggest that getting better at QB might also help us to get into the playoffs and make a run.

If we had a better defense this year we might be one of the teams in the Super Bowl.

Certainly plausible

[StumpHunter]

Without a doubt. Usually the Super Bowl champ is very good on both sides of the ball. Had we had an elite defense Cousins likely would have looked much better, and who knows, we might have even made a little playoff run.

The other statistic that seems to be pretty universal to Super Bowl champions is elite QB play. Besides Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Flacco and Foles that everyone mentions in this conversation, just about every other Super Bowl champ for the last 30+ years was led by not just a top 10 QB, but a hall-of-fame QB.

In the last 30 years, here are guys (teams) who won it all:

Aikman
Young
Favre
Elway
Warner
Brady
Roethisberger
Manning
Eli Manning
Brees
Rodgers
Wilson
Mahomes

Obviously the hope is we get better on defense. I think we need to be MUCH better on defense. But it's not crazy to suggest that getting better at QB might also help us to get into the playoffs and make a run.

If we had a better defense this year we might be one of the teams in the Super Bowl.

If we had a better offense we might be too.

[fiestavike]

If indeed Cousins has the "play it safe" mentality, then I don't want him. Nothing drives me crazier than to have a QB that refuses to take chances. It has been my belief (and I could be completely wrong) that at some point, Cousins said to Zimmer "FINE! I'll run the play as called. You're the coach. We'll do it your way. When the play isn't there, I'll check down safely. I won't throw deep unless I see someone WIDE open or unless the play actually calls for it." And then from that point, he got so used to checking down short that he didn't even look long. So unless he just happened to see it right in front of him, it wasn't happening. If that's Cousins being Cousins, then hit the road Jack. But if that's Cousins being Zimmer, then I would really like to see him with a different coaching staff.

I could pick any random game from this year, and analyze a series of downs. It seemed most of them went this way.

1st Down - quick out to a wide receiver. Gain of 2.
2nd Down - run for no gain or a gain of 1
3rd Down - 5 yard pass completion, receiver hot immediately 2 yards short of 1st down marker.
PUNT

In that example, Cousins runs and succeeds at doing everything he was called to do. After having SO many of these types of series in a given game, that's a lot of wasted possessions. Most of the time, he wasn't given much to work with.

I do wish he had just said "Screw it" and gone off script much more, but I just don't think he wanted to deal with Zimmer anymore.

But then again, maybe he's just a wimp that's in it for a paycheck.

Somehow Cousins got labeled a check down Charlie. It could hardly be further from the truth. He throws deep and is one of the most successful QBs at doing just that.

He throws deep when his system of analysis tells him to, but if you recall Stephon Diggs and Adam Thielen were incredibly highly rated in contested catches during the 2017 season, but those opportunities evaporated once Cousins arrived, because he didn't even attempt those throws which were so central to their success the year before he arrived. He classified them as 'bad throws' despite the immense talent of his WRs in winning those contests.

[IIsweet]

Honestly, if I am KAM, I bring in JJ, Thielen, and Diggs and Rudolph. I take them out to dinner individually and get honest opinions on KC. Ask those that play with him. I want to know what the elite playmakers have to say. 2 on the team and 2 no longer. The Vikings private jet picks them up and flies home. Limo brings to TCO and then dinner. Private jet flies them home.
Become a players GM with vision.

[psjordan]

Honestly, if I am KAM, I bring in JJ, Thielen, and Diggs and Rudolph. I take them out to dinner individually and get honest opinions on KC. Ask those that play with him. I want to know what the elite playmakers have to say. 2 on the team and 2 no longer. The Vikings private jet picks them up and flies home. Limo brings to TCO and then dinner. Private jet flies them home.
Become a players GM with vision.

I believe that's called tampering. No issues with KAM getting player viewpoints, but you can't wine and dine active players on other rosters. Even a surrogate would be found out quickly. Doesn't matter what is or isn't discussed.

[VikeFanInEagleLand]

Somehow Cousins got labeled a check down Charlie. It could hardly be further from the truth. He throws deep and is one of the most successful QBs at doing just that.

He throws deep when his system of analysis tells him to, but if you recall Stephon Diggs and Adam Thielen were incredibly highly rated in contested catches during the 2017 season, but those opportunities evaporated once Cousins arrived, because he didn't even attempt those throws which were so central to their success the year before he arrived. He classified them as 'bad throws' despite the immense talent of his WRs in winning those contests.

Yes, it was Keenum who was throwing deep to them and getting those contested catches, and Zimmer hated that. He tried to get him to stop, (probably by yelling,screaming, and berating him) but Keenum just kept doing it. So he got rid of him. Then he got Cousins and his screaming and yelling worked to a degree. Cousins is a good boy that does what he's told. The contested throws went away, and we see what the offense became.