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Mothman wrote:But since those stats aren't a measure of accuracy, that's immaterial.

I disagree that completion percentage isn't a measure of accuracy.

I don't think Teddy's mechanics are a big deal, he'll have some balls batted down but overall nothing that really matters too much. He just has to keep his elbow up or whatever it is that makes those deeper passes sail on him, doesn't seem to be much of a factor anywhere else.

IrishViking wrote: I disagree that completion percentage isn't a measure of accuracy.

It is, but there are other factors as well. Teddy has to throw the ball away a lot due to protection break downs and lack of options down field (we ran a lot of max protect) so it probably skews his completion % downward but has nothing to do with his accuracy. That is why I like PFF's accuracy grade since it assigns "blame" to WR's for drops and removes throw aways when they're the "right choice" from the equation. Unfortunately I don't think you'll find stats for culpepper there to continue this pointless comparison.

mondry wrote:I don't think Teddy's mechanics are a big deal, he'll have some balls batted down but overall nothing that really matters too much. Then he just has to keep his elbow up or whatever it is that makes those deeper passes sail on him, doesn't seem to be much of a factor anywhere else.

correct.

IrishViking wrote: I disagree that completion percentage isn't a measure of accuracy.

It's a measure of completed passes, nothing more or less. Completion percentage is only a measure of accuracy in the very basic sense that a pass was accurate enough to reach it's target. However, in the parlance of football, that's not really what's meant by accuracy. Accuracy is about placing passes precisely. It's the difference between completing a pass to a receiver on a route, in stride, with the kind of placement that enables him to catch it easily and gain yards after the catch and completing a pass to that same receiver, on the same route, that requires him to leap, dive, reach backward, etc. The pass might still be complete but it could disrupt the route and cost the receiver the opportunity to gain yardage after the catch. Joe Montana was well-known for his ability to throw accurately and put his receivers in the best position to continue the play.

That's just one example but it illustrates the difference. An accurate pass can be incomplete. A completed pass can be inaccurate. Those two truths alone should sufficiently illustrate that completion percentage isn't a measure of passing accuracy.

But Mondry, DC might get his ICE back and then make a bionic knee comeback and avenge 41-0. C'mon it could happen!

Seriously.

If pretty much every pass that Teddy actually throws is a 5 yard dink play, he BETTER have reasonable accuracy ratings! I wonder if there is a stat that adds value to completion rate as the length of the pass increases? Something that would quantify true downfield accuracy and avoid QBs who pad their completion rates with meaningless 1-2 yard passes.

Mothman wrote: The difference in average yards gained after catch between Wright and Diggs could have been made up by just one more 30 yard run after catch by Wright, who has proven himself capable of such plays. It's not a substantial enough difference for me to agree that Diggs was head and tails better at creating yardage after the catch.

Maybe not, but let's not forget that Diggs didn't start the season, Wright had 16 games to find that extra 30 yards, and Diggs is a rookie who never played with Bridgewater before. I just think it's harder to dismiss those gaps when viewed over the course of an entire season, although your point is valid that the numbers don't tell the whole story.

I don't mean to imply that Wright is not a good receiver by any of this. To the contrary, I suspect he's more or less in line with his peers in the slot. He's not likely to be a guy Spielman looks to upgrade this offseason.

He does need to find a legit #1.

VikingLord wrote:Maybe not, but let's not forget that Diggs didn't start the season, Wright had 16 games to find that extra 30 yards, and Diggs is a rookie who never played with Bridgewater before. I just think it's harder to dismiss those gaps when viewed over the course of an entire season, although your point is valid that the numbers don't tell the whole story.

Plus, Diggs may have played fewer games but he had more opportunities (he was targeted more often).

The underlying point for me is that Wright has proven himself very capable of running for big gains after the catch. He's had at least 3 catches in the past two seasons of 50+ yards in which the majority of the yardage was gained after the catch and he's made some nice YAC plays for less yardage too. I'm much more inclined to see the issue as one of route design and QB play than inadequate run-after-catch ability in the receiving corps. The Vikes WR corps actually strikes me as loaded with players who can good yardage after the catch.

I don't mean to imply that Wright is not a good receiver by any of this.

No worries. I didn't take your comments that way.

To the contrary, I suspect he's more or less in line with his peers in the slot. He's not likely to be a guy Spielman looks to upgrade this offseason.

He does need to find a legit #1.

Either that or they need to get more production out of the group they have now but I think finding a "go to" receiver would help a lot.

Mothman wrote: Plus, Diggs may have played fewer games but he had more opportunities (he was targeted more often).

True, but that is why I looked at average YAC per reception to try to level that out. It's also one of the reasons why I wanted to look at Wright's numbers from the 2014 season, which supports what you are saying regarding his potential to break bigger plays (which I agree with). My "worrying" comment wasn't directed at Wright so much as at why his relative production dropped given other constants. If Wright wasn't the issue, then maybe it was the playcalls, the delivery of the ball, or better defenses. Hard to say why it dropped - just that it did drop.

Mothman wrote: Either that or they need to get more production out of the group they have now but I think finding a "go to" receiver would help a lot.

Spielman gambled on Wallace and it didn't pay off. I will be surprised if he remains a Viking next year even if he's willing to take a pay cut, and I don't think the coaches trust Patterson anymore as a receiver. Spielman is going to have to go back to his big bag of tricks and try to pull out a downfield threat at the WR spot, and I think this time he tries to do that in the draft.

VikingLord wrote: True, but that is why I looked at average YAC per reception to try to level that out. It's also one of the reasons why I wanted to look at Wright's numbers from the 2014 season, which supports what you are saying regarding his potential to break bigger plays (which I agree with). My "worrying" comment wasn't directed at Wright so much as at why his relative production dropped given other constants. If Wright wasn't the issue, then maybe it was the playcalls, the delivery of the ball, or better defenses. Hard to say why it dropped - just that it did drop.

One reason it dropped so much was that he had an 87 yard TD in 2014 and all those yards came after the catch. Even if you take that play out and adjust his 2014 average YAC accordingly, he averaged more yards after the catch than in 2015 but the difference is far less substantial once that play is taken into consideration.

Beyond that, it's probably a combination of the factors you mentioned.

Spielman gambled on Wallace and it didn't pay off. I will be surprised if he remains a Viking next year even if he's willing to take a pay cut, and I don't think the coaches trust Patterson anymore as a receiver. Spielman is going to have to go back to his big bag of tricks and try to pull out a downfield threat at the WR spot, and I think this time he tries to do that in the draft.

It's definitely possible. It might depend on what Wallace wants to do and what sort of offer he receives to come back. I'm assuming they won't be willing to pay him under his current deal next season.

why would Wallace want to come back? He seems to have spent the year on a team where the QB was unable to throw deep routes (wallace's bread and butter), an offensive coordinator uninterested in pursuing the vertical game, and one of the worst OL in the league. I think there is likely a good market out there for his skills.

chicagopurple wrote:why would Wallace want to come back? He seems to have spent the year on a team where the QB was unable to throw deep routes (wallace's bread and butter), an offensive coordinator uninterested in pursuing the vertical game, and one of the worst OL in the league. I think there is likely a good market out there for his skills.

Because he knows he is on an up and coming team. While he may make it to another playoff team, he is already on one. I think he will redo the final 2 years of his contract just to stay in MN.

I think you are looking thru purple glasses. His offensive coach didnt like him much and MANY teams out there need a starting WR. Why would he have any loyalty to MN after one frustrating season that made him look bad. Staying with MN will likely lower his value as he struggles to shine with a QB that cant use Wallace's skill set and a OL that can't support a deep passing game? Because Zim all all warm and fuzzy and makes Wallace feel loved? I think not.

#forJim

‏@PFF #Vikings QB Teddy Bridgewater was the most accurate passer this season with accuracy percentage of 79.3%

dead_poet wrote:#forJim

It means nothing to me, not only because of the source but because of his style of play. He throws SO many short passes that he's bound to rate well in that sort of ranking from PFF. However, my comments about his accuracy yesterday, in comparison to Culpepper's, were in relation to his whole game. Bridgewater's deep ball accuracy is lousy. His medium range accuracy is average at best. He's a cautious dink-and-dunker so he'd better be putting most of those passes on the money.