Vikings @ Packers Game Day Discussion Thread -- Week 12

[Mothman]

Does this surprise you? I was kind of following the play-by-play gamecast and saw they were only up by three with a couple of minutes left in the fourth, Packers ball inside the Vikings 20. I was pleasantly surprised later to learn they didn't lose the game by the end of regulation. From that perspective, it was a move in a positive direction. Normally in that situation it's pretty much an assumed loss.

The yardage totals surprised me a little. The collapse didn't. Unfortunately, I saw it coming, as I assume most of us did.

Frankly, I don't know what the reason is for their complete and utter collapse in fourth quarters, particularly late/last drives. Execution or play calling? Or both?

It may be both but execution is definitely part of it. Penalties and miscues cost them several opportunities to close out the game.

But it's absolutely ridiculous and unacceptable from a fan, owner and GM perspective. How many games have the Vikings been in position to win this season with less than five minutes to go in the fourth quarter? If memory serves, it's now at least four, with losing or tying three of them.

Off the top of my head, it's 5 (Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Washington and Green Bay) and as you know, they're 1-3-1 in those 5 games. I wholeheartedly agree that's unacceptable.

If the defense holds in those situation they're, what, one game out of first place in the division? I'm really starting to sour on Allan Williams after a relatively decent 2012. Granted, injuries and player execution have also contributed.

It's just everything. They find a way to screw it up. I'm souring on Williams too but he dialed up a blitz at the perfect time late in yesterday's game and it worked. Greenway sacked Flynn on third down. Naturally, it was nullified by a defensive holding penalty that allowed GB to continue a scoring drive. Even when the call is right, it seems like the players find a way to screw it up.

I'm guessing Frazier will be replaced after this season but if he's not, I hope he at least seriously considers replacing his coordinators. That won't solve everything but it would be a start. Plenty of players need to be replaced too. For example, as far as I'm concerned, Chris Cook can go somewhere else to run next to receivers and watch them catch passes.

[losperros]

Which is why I'm feeling so grumpy after this game. This season has been full of collapses from every unit and almost every player on the team.

Yeah, I know. A tie isn't a loss. But once again we see the Vikings screw up another game. This season can't end fast enough.

[Hunter Morrow]

Their tiny little balls shrunk at the thought of a possible return by the Packers so they decided to tie.

Pathetic.

It's a glorified kickoff. He's made it through the uprights before, and it was the only possible chance the team had to win,
"play to win the game" until your spineless earthworm gutless self shows up and you'd rather take a tie.

Yep. Frazier's Minnesota Muskrats ="What happened? Did your balls drop off or something?"

[akvikingsfan]

The worst part about all of this is that the team should be sitting at 7-4 right now. We should have won against the Lions, Bears, Browns, Cowboys, and the Packers yesterday. That would have been enough to have us at least a game or 2 in the front of the division. The biggest problem with this team is coaching. These coaches don't (or won't) put teams away. They try to limp to the finish and it has cost us 5 wins this year. The whole coaching staff needs to go.

[Hunter Morrow]

Only this franchise can be winning by 16 points as they held a team to 200 total yards of offense and 7 points
but then cough up 300 yards and 16 points in 13 minutes to the Green Bay Packers 4th string quarterback.

I'm fairly certain we have to be one of the worst 4th quarter teams in league history.

Which is beyond baffling, considering that we seem to be competent to fairly dominant in third quarters.

At no point when I was watching this did I think this was going to be a 20 or 30 point routing.
I just knew the team would piss it all away and possibly even lose the game. This team is
revolting in 4th quarters. I don't get it.

[tnvikesfan]

I'm trying to figure out what game the announcers were watching to say Ponder had a good game. They said it a couple times as they showed his stats (which weren't that bad) but they didn't reflect the actual GAME. DH and I were trying to figure out what they watched compared to what we watched. I never thought we'd tie, I figured on another loss they way the 4th quarter went.

Once again we jerk another game out of the jaws of victory.

[maembe]

Off the top of my head, it's 5 (Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Washington and Green Bay) and as you know, they're 1-3-1 in those 5 games. I wholeheartedly agree that's unacceptable.

You forgot Dallas. So 2-3-1 in games where they've had a lead inside of 1 minute in the fourth. Although we were up by 17 against Pittsburgh and 16 against the Packers.

[Mothman]

Which is why I'm feeling so grumpy after this game. This season has been full of collapses from every unit and almost every player on the team.

Yeah, I know. A tie isn't a loss. But once again we see the Vikings screw up another game. This season can't end fast enough.

I know what you mean, Craig. A tie is cold comfort when the team had a 16 point lead in the 4th quarter.

[maembe]

I'm trying to figure out what game the announcers were watching to say Ponder had a good game. They said it a couple times as they showed his stats (which weren't that bad) but they didn't reflect the actual GAME. DH and I were trying to figure out what they watched compared to what we watched. I never thought we'd tie, I figured on another loss they way the 4th quarter went.

Even in the 4th quarter Ponder played well, as he had the previous two quarters. That deep ball to Patterson was perfect. The pass to Wright at the end, again, it doesn't get much easier than that. Except of course the pass to Jennings, which was the easiest catch ever. The wide receivers let us down at the end of the game, not Ponder. He wasn't throwing short passes either, with his yards per completion over 11.

[Purple bruise]

To imagine thast someone with apparently no balls is calling out the Vikes for not attemptimg a 75 yd field goal on a frigid day when Walsh alrerady said that this cold weather takes away 5 or 10 yards in distance. Add to that they managed to put the ball in Patterson's hands (one of the most dynamic players in the open field) to give them some small chance of scoring.

[Mothman]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/post/_ ... gs-week-12

Vikings don't opt for free kick: The Vikings and Packers played to the first tie under the NFL's new overtime rules, which allowed both teams to possess the ball and kick field goals in overtime. The teams traded punts after that, and when Marcus Sherels fair caught Tim Masthay's final punt with a second left in the game, the Vikings could have opted to try and win the game on a free kick. But they would have needed to snap the ball from their own 34 and try either a field goal or a drop kick, and while Frazier said the Vikings considered it, but "where the ball was placed, it just wasn't a realistic option," he said. The San Francisco 49ers tried the NFL's first free kick since 2008 earlier this year; the 49ers were also the last NFL team to make one, when Ray Wersching hit a field goal from 45 yards out.

[Funkytown]

I don't know. People always want to blame the defense. I don't. Do they suck? Yeah. Heck yeah they suck, however, in a passing league, which favors the offense...I tend to blame the offense. Just because the defense is usually the last unit on the field doesn't mean squat. How often has the offense been in position to SIMPLY make a FEW first downs to seal the deal? Nope. Not score or anything, JUST MILK THE CLOCK! Is it too much to ask!?!?! They can't do it. They know how weak our defense is, and they put it in their hands again and again and again. Bogus play-calling and poor execution to stall an offensive drive that would let the time run out and...most importantly, Vikings win. Nope. Let's make our defense win the game, because we KNOW how well that has been working. People can blame the defense all day long, but we KNEW going into this season that we were weak in the secondary, at LB, AND our front four guys were aging. To top it all off, injuries and such are making the defense even worse. What excuses do the offensive players have? From where I'm standing, they are mostly healthy, have the guys they wanted at the year's start, and have many more playmakers. The defense sucks a lot, but I still blame the offense. All that talent on that side of the ball and they can't do CRAP when it counts. It's old. It's pretty bad when I have put most of my faith in our special teams unit to do anything positive!

[Eli]

But they would have needed to snap the ball from their own 34 and try either a field goal or a drop kick, and while Frazier said the Vikings considered it, but "where the ball was placed, it just wasn't a realistic option," he said. The San Francisco 49ers tried the NFL's first free kick since 2008 earlier this year; the 49ers were also the last NFL team to make one, when Ray Wersching hit a field goal from 45 yards out.

I watched a video yesterday of the San Francisco attempt. They didn't have to snap the ball. The holder simply held it (no tee). Still, 76 yards isn't reasonable. I've seen Janikowski (barely) boot practice field goals from 70, so I don't think Walsh would have had a chance.

[mondry]

I don't know. People always want to blame the defense. I don't. Do they suck? Yeah. Heck yeah they suck, however, in a passing league, which favors the offense...I tend to blame the offense. Just because the defense is usually the last unit on the field doesn't mean squat. How often has the offense been in position to SIMPLY make a FEW first downs to seal the deal? Nope. Not score or anything, JUST MILK THE CLOCK! Is it too much to ask!?!?! They can't do it. They know how weak our defense is, and they put it in their hands again and again and again. Bogus play-calling and poor execution to stall an offensive drive that would let the time run out and...most importantly, Vikings win. Nope. Let's make our defense win the game, because we KNOW how well that has been working. People can blame the defense all day long, but we KNEW going into this season that we were weak in the secondary, at LB, AND our front four guys were aging. To top it all off, injuries and such are making the defense even worse. What excuses do the offensive players have? From where I'm standing, they are mostly healthy, have the guys they wanted at the year's start, and have many more playmakers. The defense sucks a lot, but I still blame the offense. All that talent on that side of the ball and they can't do CRAP when it counts. It's old. It's pretty bad when I have put most of my faith in our special teams unit to do anything positive!

Great post!

I've said before as well that at this point we KNOW what we have in the defense and that's a unit that can't be counted on to hold a lead in the 4th quarter. They might get lucky once or... well... once but cmon! Even that game the Steelers were so close to putting it in the endzone that I wouldn't even count that game as a "see it works" game.

Just wanted to say I'm in total agreement though, with all of the investments they've made on the offensive side of the ball, that really needs to be the unit to "carry" this team if you will and when crunch time hits, the one I think needs to step up and put the game away.

They need that Belichik type killer instinct that says "up by 14? Time to go up by 21!" and really put the game out of reach when the opportunity is there instead of feeling comfortable sitting on a lead, watching it evaporate, and then trying to "turn it back on".

[Mothman]

I don't know. People always want to blame the defense. I don't. Do they suck? Yeah. Heck yeah they suck, however, in a passing league, which favors the offense...I tend to blame the offense. Just because the defense is usually the last unit on the field doesn't mean squat. How often has the offense been in position to SIMPLY make a FEW first downs to seal the deal? Nope. Not score or anything, JUST MILK THE CLOCK! Is it too much to ask!?!?! They can't do it. They know how weak our defense is, and they put it in their hands again and again and again. Bogus play-calling and poor execution to stall an offensive drive that would let the time run out and...most importantly, Vikings win. Nope. Let's make our defense win the game, because we KNOW how well that has been working. People can blame the defense all day long, but we KNEW going into this season that we were weak in the secondary, at LB, AND our front four guys were aging. To top it all off, injuries and such are making the defense even worse. What excuses do the offensive players have? From where I'm standing, they are mostly healthy, have the guys they wanted at the year's start, and have many more playmakers. The defense sucks a lot, but I still blame the offense. All that talent on that side of the ball and they can't do CRAP when it counts. It's old. It's pretty bad when I have put most of my faith in our special teams unit to do anything positive!

Here's a crazy idea: why not just blame the losses on the entire team? After all, the entire team plays the games and each player on each unit has a job to do. Not on of these losses is solely on the offense or the defense or the special teams or even the mighty Christian Ponder. They're all team losses. Every. Single. One.