Vikings Message Board.Com

You guys know the NFL schedule was 14 games..and less..before that right?

Are all the 16 game record holders not valid now?

ADs 2000 yd season came in 16 games. Uh oh. Not valid. OJ is the only true 2000 yd rusher with that logic.

When we set the most points scored record in 1998 was it invalid due to playing 16 games?

This is an issue with ALL counting stats as games played increases on ALL sports. Otherwise you want to use averages and not totals.

Former players have talked about how much it means when a coach will call a play to help someone get a chance for a bonus, or a record, etc.

To each their own I guess.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 2:00 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:33 pm
Because it taints the game and the record if you are going after it with the game already in hand.

Tom Brady seems to disagree with you...

No. He just felt like tainting the game for his friend. It's not like he doesn't know he was doing that.

makila wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:49 pm You guys know the NFL schedule was 14 games..and less..before that right?

Are all the 16 game record holders not valid now?

ADs 2000 yd season came in 16 games. Uh oh. Not valid. OJ is the only true 2000 yd rusher with that logic.

When we set the most points scored record in 1998 was it invalid due to playing 16 games?

This is an issue with ALL counting stats as games played increases on ALL sports. Otherwise you want to use averages and not totals.

Former players have talked about how much it means when a coach will call a play to help someone get a chance for a bonus, or a record, etc.

To each their own I guess.

The thing that pains the most is that we all assume JJ is an up-and-coming receiver. He's only going to get better. He'll have the chance to break more records.

But that isn't always true.

The fact remains that he had a chance to set the 17 game record. He was right there, and that moment was allowed to pass him by by his head coach, his offensive coordinator, and his QB. That moment when he had that chance is gone forever. Nobody can give it back to him, and nobody can replace it.

The more I think about this, the more it just makes me sad. Zimmer was the next-best-robot-since-Childress. Good riddance. I really hope Cousins follows him out the door soon.

VikingLord wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:13 pm

makila wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:49 pm You guys know the NFL schedule was 14 games..and less..before that right?

Are all the 16 game record holders not valid now?

ADs 2000 yd season came in 16 games. Uh oh. Not valid. OJ is the only true 2000 yd rusher with that logic.

When we set the most points scored record in 1998 was it invalid due to playing 16 games?

This is an issue with ALL counting stats as games played increases on ALL sports. Otherwise you want to use averages and not totals.

Former players have talked about how much it means when a coach will call a play to help someone get a chance for a bonus, or a record, etc.

To each their own I guess.

The thing that pains the most is that we all assume JJ is an up-and-coming receiver. He's only going to get better. He'll have the chance to break more records.

But that isn't always true.

The fact remains that he had a chance to set the 17 game record. He was right there, and that moment was allowed to pass him by by his head coach, his offensive coordinator, and his QB. That moment when he had that chance is gone forever. Nobody can give it back to him, and nobody can replace it.

The more I think about this, the more it just makes me sad. Zimmer was the next-best-robot-since-Childress. Good riddance. I really hope Cousins follows him out the door soon.

If Jefferson had got that record that he came so close to it would have been because Cousins did an excellent job passing him the ball. Who cares about the stupid record? BFD. Really. JJ had a great season. Isn't that enough?

makila wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:49 pm You guys know the NFL schedule was 14 games..and less..before that right?

Are all the 16 game record holders not valid now?

ADs 2000 yd season came in 16 games. Uh oh. Not valid. OJ is the only true 2000 yd rusher with that logic.

When we set the most points scored record in 1998 was it invalid due to playing 16 games?

This is an issue with ALL counting stats as games played increases on ALL sports. Otherwise you want to use averages and not totals.

Former players have talked about how much it means when a coach will call a play to help someone get a chance for a bonus, or a record, etc.

To each their own I guess.

To me the single season rushing record is OJ. Since different seasons have different amount of games the record should be based on yards divided by number of games in the season.

psjordan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:34 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:33 pm Because it taints the game and the record if you are going after it with the game already in hand.

The soapbox is a slippery place.

A great deal of stats are accumulated when games are "in hand". Whether that's game #2, #8 or game #17.

And for all the chirps about "an extra game", geez loweez the NFL used to play a 14 game season, and prior to that a 12 game season. Moss had two more games to accumulate stats over the prior regime and so on and so on.

Records accumulate, times march on. Asterisk such things if it makes you feel better.

But 100% they should have cared enough about the kid to get him the record.

Sure stats accumulate, but when you switch from playing to win to playing to get the record it cheapens the accomplishment. I find it ridiculous that so many people care about the IMO stupid record.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:19 pm

makila wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:49 pm You guys know the NFL schedule was 14 games..and less..before that right?

Are all the 16 game record holders not valid now?

ADs 2000 yd season came in 16 games. Uh oh. Not valid. OJ is the only true 2000 yd rusher with that logic.

When we set the most points scored record in 1998 was it invalid due to playing 16 games?

This is an issue with ALL counting stats as games played increases on ALL sports. Otherwise you want to use averages and not totals.

Former players have talked about how much it means when a coach will call a play to help someone get a chance for a bonus, or a record, etc.

To each their own I guess.

To me the single season rushing record is OJ. Since different seasons have different amount of games the record should be based on yards divided by number of games in the season.

I do appreciate consistency in logic. : )

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:23 pm

psjordan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:34 pm

The soapbox is a slippery place.

A great deal of stats are accumulated when games are "in hand". Whether that's game #2, #8 or game #17.

And for all the chirps about "an extra game", geez loweez the NFL used to play a 14 game season, and prior to that a 12 game season. Moss had two more games to accumulate stats over the prior regime and so on and so on.

Records accumulate, times march on. Asterisk such things if it makes you feel better.

But 100% they should have cared enough about the kid to get him the record.

Sure stats accumulate, but when you switch from playing to win to playing to get the record it cheapens the accomplishment. I find it ridiculous that so many people care about the IMO stupid record.

Well just a few thoughts before I back out of this intractable line of posts:
I think you are mistaken in thinking "so many people" care about the record. What the posters here seem to care about is that JJ cares - and other players care - about the record. Personally I don't care about ANY records. But I do care if the players on my favorite team are happy. Especially the young superstars.

Again, the soapbox is very slippery. Teams play for records all the time - see the BAL 100 yard rushing streak or the CIN passing for 500 yards mark, both from this season.

Whether you like it or not, most current players care about this stuff. If the coaching staff does not, that's a huge disconnect.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:23 pm

psjordan wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:34 pm

The soapbox is a slippery place.

A great deal of stats are accumulated when games are "in hand". Whether that's game #2, #8 or game #17.

And for all the chirps about "an extra game", geez loweez the NFL used to play a 14 game season, and prior to that a 12 game season. Moss had two more games to accumulate stats over the prior regime and so on and so on.

Records accumulate, times march on. Asterisk such things if it makes you feel better.

But 100% they should have cared enough about the kid to get him the record.

Sure stats accumulate, but when you switch from playing to win to playing to get the record it cheapens the accomplishment. I find it ridiculous that so many people care about the IMO stupid record.

You’ve got to be kidding me? Cheapens the accomplishment? Have you ever played any sport?

I’m gonna brag for a minute. I am a golfer. A good one. Two summers ago, I turned 60. As I was playing my home course with my friends, I went on an absolute tear on the front 9. A real priest-in-Caddyshack run. Fairways and greens, and the putter was stuck on automatic. Rolled in a 20-footer for birdie on the ninth to make the turn in 29. Twenty-freaking-nine. That’s 7-under. From the tips. At 60 years old.

I had my buddies beat by a mile. The game was over. But do you think for one minute that stopped me from wanting to go lower? Not a chance. My first thought was shooting my age. Hardly anybody who plays golf ever shoots their age. But to do it at age 60? That would be the rarest of feats. You better believe I was thinking about it as I started the back.

And that’s probably why it didn’t happen. Ended up shooting 35 on the back. Putter cooled off. Still shot 8-under 64, the best round of my life.

Was it “tainted” because I won by 11 shots? Did it mean less because I only needed a 74 to take my friends’ money? Hell no! I wanted to shoot 60 so bad I could taste it. And you know what? So did my buddies.

Records mean something to the people setting them. That record meant something to JJ, and it meant something to his teammates. That’s what matters, not what Random Fan thinks.

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:19 pm

makila wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:49 pm You guys know the NFL schedule was 14 games..and less..before that right?

Are all the 16 game record holders not valid now?

ADs 2000 yd season came in 16 games. Uh oh. Not valid. OJ is the only true 2000 yd rusher with that logic.

When we set the most points scored record in 1998 was it invalid due to playing 16 games?

This is an issue with ALL counting stats as games played increases on ALL sports. Otherwise you want to use averages and not totals.

Former players have talked about how much it means when a coach will call a play to help someone get a chance for a bonus, or a record, etc.

To each their own I guess.

To me the single season rushing record is OJ. Since different seasons have different amount of games the record should be based on yards divided by number of games in the season.

So … who holds the single-season sack record? Michael Strahan or T.J. Watt? They both had 22.5.

Strahan did his in a 16-game season. Watt’s came this year in 17. So by your thinking, Strahan is the true record holder.

But look closer.

Watt missed two full games and part of a third, while Strahan suited up for all 16. So Watt actually got his in 15 games.

Also, Strahan’s final sack came when Green Bay’s right tackle barely got out of his stance and Brett Favre curled up in the fetal position when Strahan was 3 yards from him. The Packers took a dive to get the record for the popular Strahan. Therefore, by your “tainted record” theory, Watt should’ve only had 21.5 sacks because he got his last one when the Packers laid down in a meaningless game.

Kinda clashes with your games played logic, doesn’t it?

How about we let the NFL decide what’s a record and what’s not.

The more I think about it, the more I think Zimmer did the absolute right thing. I'd do the same thing if I was in his position, choose integrity of the game over individualistic achievements. Zimmer was NEVER about the individual. I respect Zimmer for that.

It's done. JJ had opportunities to break the record but just didn't get there. I'm sure he has his eye on loftier goals.

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:42 pm

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:19 pm
To me the single season rushing record is OJ. Since different seasons have different amount of games the record should be based on yards divided by number of games in the season.

So … who holds the single-season sack record? Michael Strahan or T.J. Watt? They both had 22.5.

Strahan did his in a 16-game season. Watt’s came this year in 17. So by your thinking, Strahan is the true record holder.

But look closer.

Watt missed two full games and part of a third, while Strahan suited up for all 16. So Watt actually got his in 15 games.

Also, Strahan’s final sack came when Green Bay’s right tackle barely got out of his stance and Brett Favre curled up in the fetal position when Strahan was 3 yards from him. The Packers took a dive to get the record for the popular Strahan. Therefore, by your “tainted record” theory, Watt should’ve only had 21.5 sacks because he got his last one when the Packers laid down in a meaningless game.

Kinda clashes with your games played logic, doesn’t it?

How about we let the NFL decide what’s a record and what’s not.

I think if you asked Strahan he would say he wished his record wasn't tarnished by Favre falling down and giving up the sack.

I have to ask, how many of you were actual HS, college, and then professional athletes ?
Next, which decade did you play in?
Reason I ask, is that Old School thoughts are OK with Zim and appreciate respecting the game. That matters to you.
Current day athletes did not play then, the game has changed, the athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger. The competition level is at an all time high. JJ being in position to set a record should have been a priority. All things considered, records in every era should be acknowledged and respected. The game in every era should be respected. Athletes in every era should be respected. BUT.... you should always attempt to break records and earn incentive bonuses !!!
What if.... happens ??? What if JJ is never in this position again? There is money attached to these as well.
I promise that that 53 players on that team wanted him to get the record. The fact that Cousins bowed out and didn't throw him the ball, shows a lack of leadership. He did not step up for his teammate.... the guy he goes to battle in the trenches with ! The coaches were being fired, why would Cousins not do so ?

IIsweet wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:59 am I have to ask, how many of you were actual HS, college, and then professional athletes ?
Next, which decade did you play in?
Reason I ask, is that Old School thoughts are OK with Zim and appreciate respecting the game. That matters to you.
Current day athletes did not play then, the game has changed, the athletes are bigger, faster, and stronger. The competition level is at an all time high. JJ being in position to set a record should have been a priority. All things considered, records in every era should be acknowledged and respected. The game in every era should be respected. Athletes in every era should be respected. BUT.... you should always attempt to break records and earn incentive bonuses !!!
What if.... happens ??? What if JJ is never in this position again? There is money attached to these as well.
I promise that that 53 players on that team wanted him to get the record. The fact that Cousins bowed out and didn't throw him the ball, shows a lack of leadership. He did not step up for his teammate.... the guy he goes to battle in the trenches with ! The coaches were being fired, why would Cousins not do so ?

Totally agree with you … and I’m pretty darned old school!

The thing is, human nature hasn’t changed. Everybody wants to be associated with something extraordinary. And that’s not new. It’s always been that way. When Mantle and Maris were chasing Ruth’s 60 home run record in 1961, they both cared. When Pete Rose was chasing Joe DiMaggio’s 56-game hit streak record in 1978, he cared (and his streak was broken in a blowout where it didn’t matter to the game).

And as you said, the guys going to war with JJ cared about that record, too. For the coaching staff to turn a blind eye was bad for morale. But what did Zimmer care? He was getting fired. It was all about him.

As for Cousins, it’s not in his nature to audible against the coach’s wishes. He’s the ultimate “I just work here” guy. But he could’ve gotten on the phone to Kubiak and fought for his guy.

I suppose I should quit harping on this, but it illustrates how much dysfunction there was on this team, and how toxic the environment had gotten. A unified team would have pulled together to get the record — not just for JJ, but for each other. To salvage something out of a lost season. But hey, some of you think JJ’s desire for the record was selfish. Whatever. I say the team not coming together to get that record, in a game that was clearly in hand, was the ultimate selfish act of a very selfish team.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:57 am

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:42 pm
So … who holds the single-season sack record? Michael Strahan or T.J. Watt? They both had 22.5.

Strahan did his in a 16-game season. Watt’s came this year in 17. So by your thinking, Strahan is the true record holder.

But look closer.

Watt missed two full games and part of a third, while Strahan suited up for all 16. So Watt actually got his in 15 games.

Also, Strahan’s final sack came when Green Bay’s right tackle barely got out of his stance and Brett Favre curled up in the fetal position when Strahan was 3 yards from him. The Packers took a dive to get the record for the popular Strahan. Therefore, by your “tainted record” theory, Watt should’ve only had 21.5 sacks because he got his last one when the Packers laid down in a meaningless game.

Kinda clashes with your games played logic, doesn’t it?

How about we let the NFL decide what’s a record and what’s not.

I think if you asked Strahan he would say he wished his record wasn't tarnished by Favre falling down and giving up the sack.

You’re going to compare a lay-down-by-the-other-team sack to JJ chasing Moss’ record with the other team trying to stop him?

If you can’t see the difference, then there’s really no sense in talking with you.