However I think he goes out on a limb a bit with his Clemmings projection.
Minnesota Vikings
Trae Waynes – DC – Michigan State
With all the tall receivers in the NFC North, Waynes will help the Vikings with matchups. He is an excellent press cover corner who just needs to improve his tackling skills. Waynes was clearly the best corner in this draft.
Eric Kendricks – LB – UCLA
Kendricks is a bit undersized, but he is one of the more instinctive linebackers in this draft. He makes plays all over the field. He also is excellent in coverage. An added bonus is Kendricks and last year’s number one Anthony Barr are former roommates, and that will help Kendricks with the transition to the NFL.
Danielle Hunter – DE – LSU
Hunter has outstanding natural physical traits as far as speed, change of directions and body control. He just hasn’t put it all together yet. Had he stayed in school another year, he may have been a first round pick next year. Hunter’s upside is as good as any player in this draft.
T.J. Clemmings – OT – Pittsburgh
Getting Clemmings in the fourth round is the steal of the draft. Clemmings is a first round talent who fell because of a reported foot injury. People I have talked to say the foot is fine and is an old injury. He will be a rookie starter.
MyCole Pruitt – TE – Southern Illinois
Pruitt is an ideal “move” tight end who will help the offense.
Stefon Diggs – WR – Maryland
Diggs is another steal. He was an early entry into the draft and had outstanding production at Maryland. I felt he was, at worst, a third round value, but with a strong wide receiver group, he fell.
Tyrus Thompson – OT – Oklahoma
Thompson has size and power. He needs to lose a little weight to help his movement skills, but he has the traits to be an eventual starter.
Austin Shepherd – OT – Alabama
Shepherd played tackle at Alabama but is more likely to move inside to guard at Minnesota. He has a solid chance to make the team and be a quality backup.
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
I know it was a defense orientated draft from a defensive coach, but I would have liked to get a bit more receiver corps firepower.
That being said, we've needed a CB for ages and as said in the thread a lot, and I agree with it, Waynes has got the body
and athleticism and is just perfect for what Zimmerman wants to do.
I think the grade for the draft will be what Eric Kendricks and Stefon Diggs bring to the table.
If they get close to Anthony Barr production out of Kendricks, its the defensive steal of the draft.
I like how he was a roommate and is a friend with Barr so hopefully the chemistry translates to the big time.
Diggs, if he produces at special teams, could be a monster, too.
I'm going to give it a B and say it has A upside just off the basis of those 3 picks. I think we got an immediate
impact starter with our first and potentially second picks. Danielle Hunter is a little raw but he could develop, especially
with our coaches. 2 years or so, if Waynes and Kendricks deliver (I think they will) and Diggs and Hunter pan out, this is a slam dunk.
This is an interesting analysis of the trades during the draft. Minnesota is in here, he is mostly complimentary of Spielman, mentioning the trade to get Patterson as a negative (I'd forgotten about that). The most interesting part are the general remarks at the start, where they point out that if a team thinks that when a player falls, their analysis that he is a first round talent, say, means they think their evaluation is more accurate than that of 30 other teams. Probably not so, they say. Here is the link -
cogitator wrote:This is an interesting analysis of the trades during the draft. Minnesota is in here, he is mostly complimentary of Spielman, mentioning the trade to get Patterson as a negative (I'd forgotten about that). The most interesting part are the general remarks at the start, where they point out that if a team thinks that when a player falls, their analysis that he is a first round talent, say, means they think their evaluation is more accurate than that of 30 other teams. Probably not so, they say. Here is the link -
Texas Vike wrote:
Interesting article, thanks for posting it.
Agreed. Thanks. Interesting bits that I found most interesting:
I find the flip side of that argument far more compelling. If you have Schneider and you think he’s better at spotting talent than your competition, the best thing he can do is get as many chances to exploit that advantage as possible. Trading four picks for one limits Schneider’s shot at adding talent to a roster that isn’t quite as deep as it was in 2013, because Schneider’s midround finds are coming off their rookie contracts and becoming significantly more expensive.
It’s not just about adding Lockett; it’s the opportunity cost of missing out on a chance to find a star in the middle rounds. In the wrong hands, fourth-, fifth-, and sixth-round picks might not mean that much. But in those rounds during the 2011 draft, Schneider came away with K.J. Wright, Richard Sherman, and Byron Maxwell. The pick Schneider used to draft Sherman came in a deal where the Seahawks traded down with the Lions, picking up an extra pick while swapping selections in the fifth and seventh rounds.
There is no guarantee the Seahawks are missing out on a franchise player like Sherman by trading their fifth-rounder this year, of course. They also chose Kris Durham and Mark LeGree in those rounds in 2011. But when you make trades like this, you limit your chances to get lucky. The Lions traded up that year to fill an obvious hole on their roster, grabbing their long-needed power back in Mikel Leshoure. Leshoure’s been out of football for two years. If Lockett turns out to be a star, the Seahawks will be happy. History tells us, though, that Schneider would have been better off with all of those extra picks.
And
The Vikings quietly have one of the deepest rosters in football, and trades like these are why.
Interesting. Jim, agree?
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
dead_poet wrote:
Agreed. Thanks. Interesting bits that I found most interesting:
And
Interesting. Jim, agree?
I have a hard time seeing the Vikes roster as one of the league's deepest. Much of the talent is unproven. It's a young roster but just how good will many of those young players be when opportunity knocks? Personally, I think it's too soon to call it one of the league's deepest rosters. I don't know if the overall talent level is above average. The potential for a deep, high quality roster is there but at this point, I just see it as potential. What's your opinion?
... or were you asking if I agreed with Barnwell's comments about opportunity cost?
I find it odd to give much credence to a draftee evaluation system that doesn't take into account the offensive or defensive
style the player is going to. If Waynes really is a stud press coverage guy who likes to get physical and jam people at the line
and bump them off routes, and that is what Zimmer wants to do, then wouldn't that bump him up considerably? Like maybe a full
letter grade? From a high C to a strong B or something?
It's definitely interesting, for the most part, even the best drafters miss a lot so I definitely see value in the "take as many shots as you can" mentality. Some players, even if they look like total beasts in college, may just not have the mental drive to want to be a good NFL pro, I really believe there are variables that we have no way of judging what so ever making any pick a gamble still.
That's not to say I'm totally against trading up, even if the rest of the league judges a player at proper value (through scouting) if you trade up a few spots because you know another team also has your same need and will likely take the player it can be worth it to pay a little extra to make sure you get them.
It's not smart to make a Cordarelle Patterson type trade though, you're purposely putting yourself into an "all your eggs in one basket" situation which doesn't make sense in anything let alone football. It's like taking a bad shot in basketball, sometimes it still goes in but you know there was a smarter play.
I agree we have one of the deepest rosters now, but I'm not sure it's entirely because of those trades. I think it has more to do with WHO we've been drafting and doing a good job of getting talent that "sticks" around. Trading Harvin gave us a lot of extra picks too which I'm not counting in this argument as like a great draft day trade back for more picks because it happened well before the draft.
Mothman wrote:I have a hard time seeing the Vikes roster as one of the league's deepest. Much of the talent is unproven. It's a young roster but just how good will many of those young players will be when opportunity knocks? Personally, I think it's too soon to call it one of the league's deepest rosters. I don't know if the overall talent level is above average. The potential for a deep, high quality roster is there but at this point, I just see it as potential. What's your opinion?
... or were you asking if I agreed with Barnwell's comments about opportunity cost?
I meant depth, as I know that was/is an important issue for you.
I agree that most positions now seem to have quality depth potential, save for possibly G/C and safety. The offensive line and corners needed to be addressed badly the last few years and Rick has done pretty well of stocking the shelves. The talent level is questionable, but that's safe to say for most NFL teams.
“Some people think football is a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much more serious than that.” --- Bill Shankly
dead_poet wrote:I meant depth, as I know that was/is an important issue for you.
I agree that most positions now seem to have quality depth potential, save for possibly G/C and safety. The offensive line and corners needed to be addressed badly the last few years and Rick has done pretty well of stocking the shelves. The talent level is questionable, but that's safe to say for most NFL teams.
That sums it up for me. It looks like they're trying to address, and that's good. Hopefully, Barnwell is right.
This was the first year in awhile where I rarely watched college football, so I have no idea about the guys Minnesota drafted enough to grade them. I will say though, that Waynes was someone I liked from the start and did get to actually watch him a bit. I think a lot of weaknesses can be offset by how the Vikings plan to use him and just their scheme as a whole. That and because I trust Zimmer 100% to know what he's doing and knowing how to coach him.
cogitator wrote:This is an interesting analysis of the trades during the draft. Minnesota is in here, he is mostly complimentary of Spielman, mentioning the trade to get Patterson as a negative (I'd forgotten about that). The most interesting part are the general remarks at the start, where they point out that if a team thinks that when a player falls, their analysis that he is a first round talent, say, means they think their evaluation is more accurate than that of 30 other teams. Probably not so, they say. Here is the link -
My biggest takeaway from that article was how much they liked the double drop in the 3rd round. It was really annoying to me, sitting at home wondering why we didn't like any of the guys who were available, but they killed it with the potential value added.
The other thing I found interesting is the final analysis. Based on their analysis of past draft values, the total trades done by Rick added the value equivalent to the 118th pick in the draft. All that trading gave us the equivalent of an extra mid-4th round pick - kind of like getting TJ Clemmings for free. That is great work by Spielman!
John_Viveiros wrote:
My biggest takeaway from that article was how much they liked the double drop in the 3rd round. It was really annoying to me, sitting at home wondering why we didn't like any of the guys who were available, but they killed it with the potential value added.
The other thing I found interesting is the final analysis. Based on their analysis of past draft values, the total trades done by Rick added the value equivalent to the 118th pick in the draft. All that trading gave us the equivalent of an extra mid-4th round pick - kind of like getting TJ Clemmings for free. That is great work by Spielman!
The Vikings quietly have one of the deepest rosters in football, and trades like these are why.
From the article......I have to say I agree.
The saddest thing in life is wasted talent and the choices you make will shape your life forever.
-Chazz Palminteri
The Breeze wrote:I'm going to predict that Pruitt and Diggs will be guys that work out well for this team.
You could be right. Kyle will get injured, of that im certain. I hope they keep Ford, but maybe they like Pruitt as a #2 more. And I think eventually, Diggs will get sometime this season. Mainly because I dont see CP as being a threat (I hope I am wrong, and really hope the slot suits him). It wouldnt surprise me to see Diggs get reps on the other side of Wallace either. As good as I think McKinnon might be, AD is still going to scare the piss out of the LBs/DBs, and Teddy has to read this fast and hit the open man. 1st downs are going to be key. Having a fresh Barr and Kendricks will wreck havoc on any team. We finally have a LB that cab cover AND tackle with the best of them. While Barr hits them before the even see him coming. What a season this is going to be. And I think I get to go to a few games!
