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Our defense sucked this year but Ponder did no favors turning over the ball 1000000 times

NextQuestion wrote:Our defense sucked this year but Ponder did no favors turning over the ball 1000000 times

He turned it over more than double that amount...Ponder apologist

NextQuestion wrote:Our defense sucked this year but Ponder did no favors turning over the ball 1000000 times

ya his 13 turnovers ( 9 picks, 4 fumbles lost) were annoying. but there were far better qbs who had way more this season. eli manning with 29. flacco 24. Dalton 23. Stafford 23. roethisberger 20. brees 14. tom brady 14. and every one of these guys threw more picks than ponder.

and no...I'm not apologizing for ponder. I have lost all faith in him. I'm just being fair. his turnovers weren't our biggest problem as a team. they certainly didn't help. but he has other issues more alarming to myself and as a team we had far bigger fish to fry than his 13 giveaways.

vikeinmontana wrote: ya his 13 turnovers ( 9 picks, 4 fumbles lost) were annoying. but there were far better qbs who had way more this season. eli manning with 29. flacco 24. Dalton 23. Stafford 23. roethisberger 20. brees 14. tom brady 14. and every one of these guys threw more picks than ponder.

and no...I'm not apologizing for ponder. I have lost all faith in him. I'm just being fair. his turnovers weren't our biggest problem as a team. they certainly didn't help. but he has other issues more alarming to myself and as a team we had far bigger fish to fry than his 13 giveaways.

Ponder didn't help us, but I think our defense (or lack thereof) was 'hands down' our worst issue this year. I have hope that under Zimmer's reign we can get that corrected...

vikeinmontana wrote: ya his 13 turnovers ( 9 picks, 4 fumbles lost) were annoying. but there were far better qbs who had way more this season. eli manning with 29. flacco 24. Dalton 23. Stafford 23. roethisberger 20. brees 14. tom brady 14. and every one of these guys threw more picks than ponder.

And they played in how many more games? And they threw how many more passes?

and no...I'm not apologizing for ponder. I have lost all faith in him. I'm just being fair. his turnovers weren't our biggest problem as a team. they certainly didn't help. but he has other issues more alarming to myself and as a team we had far bigger fish to fry than his 13 giveaways.

You sure?

I'm kidding. I think you basically said the same thing NextQuestion was implying: "Yeah, they both sucked." You just did it with a bit more "apologizing."

Darn people.

My point taken. I made one post about Ponder now every other post since my last comment is about Ponder.

Ponder sucked pretty bad but the offense still put up points and you can ALSO say our defense didn't do us anything better either buy allowing so many points a game. The Vikings are not built for shootouts or to comeback from behind. If our defense continues to play like they did last season we will lose every game until we find us a Tom Brady or Andrew Luck, which is unlikely.

My point is, both sides of the ball were responsible for this disappointing season. Yes Ponder did horrible but so did the defense. The coaching staff certainly didn't help by switching the QBs like a pair of underwear.

Just Me wrote:Ponder didn't help us, but I think our defense (or lack thereof) was 'hands down' our worst issue this year. I have hope that under Zimmer's reign we can get that corrected...

I hope so. I agree that it was the team's biggest issue in 2013. It would help if the secondary could stay healthy. That unit has been hit hard by injuries in 2 of the last 3 seasons.

Mothman wrote: I hope so. I agree that it was the team's biggest issue in 2013. It would help if the secondary could stay healthy. That unit has been hit hard by injuries in 2 of the last 3 seasons.

As far as wins/losses the teams biggest problem was Ponder. How many wins did he have? Then ask yourself how many did Cassel have. The D managed, for whatever reason, to play better with a competent leader and QB back there. At least well enough for us to get the win. That being said, I hope we focus on our D, have anyone but Ponder behind center, and get some wins next year. Too bad that turd is still on our team instead of MBT. Might be able to see what a young QB could do right away with our new OC.

PurpleKoolaid wrote: As far as wins/losses the teams biggest problem was Ponder. How many wins did he have? Then ask yourself how many did Cassel have. The D managed, for whatever reason, to play better with a competent leader and QB back there. At least well enough for us to get the win. That being said, I hope we focus on our D, have anyone but Ponder behind center, and get some wins next year. Too bad that turd is still on our team instead of MBT. Might be able to see what a young QB could do right away with our new OC.

It's unfair to use the how many wins do Ponder and Cassel have argument when Ponder was taken out most of these games due to injury. While Cassel is the better QB, we were still in position to win games with Ponder. It's hard to win a game when your defensive gives up a crucial TD with less than :30 seconds to go in the 4th quarter. I think Ponder proved in 2012 if everyone around him is playing well than we can win with him as a starter.

PurpleKoolaid wrote: As far as wins/losses the teams biggest problem was Ponder. How many wins did he have? Then ask yourself how many did Cassel have. The D managed, for whatever reason, to play better with a competent leader and QB back there. At least well enough for us to get the win. That being said, I hope we focus on our D, have anyone but Ponder behind center, and get some wins next year. Too bad that turd is still on our team instead of MBT. Might be able to see what a young QB could do right away with our new OC.

It's unfair to use the how many wins do Ponder and Cassel have argument when Ponder was taken out most of these games due to injury. While Cassel is the better QB, we were still in position to win games with Ponder. It's hard to win a game when your defensive gives up a crucial TD with less than :30 seconds to go in the 4th quarter. I think Ponder proved in 2012 if everyone around him is playing well than we can win with him as a starter.[/quote]

I really have no idea what half your posts are trying to say. Cassel shouldn't get more credit because, even though he had more wins, Ponder should have the starting job, because he put us in a better place to win games? really? I would like to say what I think you are trying to say, but I don't feel like being banned again. Actually im just going to leave it alone.

PurpleKoolaid wrote: I really have no idea what half your posts are trying to say. Cassel shouldn't get more credit because, even though he had more wins, Ponder should have the starting job, because he put us in a better place to win games? really? I would like to say what I think you are trying to say, but I don't feel like being banned again. Actually im just going to leave it alone.

Obviously I have to break this down for you.

Cassel is the BETTER QB. Ponder is not as good. I didn't say Cassel shouldn't get credit. He played a huge part in those wins. But this is not about Cassel being a better option than Ponder. What I said was that we can still win games with Ponder when the rest of the team is playing well around him. He PROVED that in 2012. You said that Ponder did nothing to help us win when in fact he did. Need I remind you that my stance on this is doubting Cassel's credibility as our starter. However, Ponder was not given a fair shake towards the middle of the season. At that time, he was only benched because of his health. Who knows he probably could've those teams. So far Ponder only has had one full season a starter. And that year, though you can argue Peterson was the key to Vikings winning, Ponder still got us atleast 10 wins. So basically what I'm saying is, that your assessment that Ponder has done nothing is wrong. Just because Cassel won a few more game than Ponder doesn't mean much. Ponder could have probably won those games. Ponder and Cassel have two different playing styles. Cassel is more of a pocket QB and Ponder is more of a mobile guy but last year they tried to force him to stay in the pocket more.

It begins. "Pondora's Box" has been opened. Might as well close this thread.

maembe wrote:It begins. "Pondora's Box" has been opened. Might as well close this thread.

There is a few threads that should be probably,

Mothman wrote: I hope so. I agree that it was the team's biggest issue in 2013. It would help if the secondary could stay healthy. That unit has been hit hard by injuries in 2 of the last 3 seasons.

I think there is talent there (Sherels surprised me in his performances when he got a chance to play) so I'm (perhaps foolishly ) optimistic that an 'aggressive defensive minded' coach can yield better results.

maembe wrote: "Pondora's Box" has been opened.

Well played...