Vikings Message Board.Com

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:34 pm**

Texas Vike wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:27 pm Basics of the McVay Offense:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXP1SrOml74[/youtube]
https://twitter.com/LukeBraunNFL/status ... Fpage%3D17

I think Cook will thrive in this scheme.

Posted: **Thu Feb 03, 2022 11:23 pm**

40for60 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 9:34 pm
Texas Vike wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 7:27 pm Basics of the McVay Offense:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXP1SrOml74[/youtube]

I think Cook will thrive in this scheme.

I do too. I think the FO probably liked that we already have a lot of the pieces in place, offensively, to make the transition.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 1:13 am**

Cliff wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:32 pm My problem with the Ram's coordinators is that Sean McVay literally has a Photographic Memory. In the simplest terms, I think one of the things (maybe the main thing) that makes McVay's coaching style special literally can't be taught.

Hiring HCs from an existing staff doesn't mean you will get the same style. Some HCs try and hire people that are different just to get that opposing view. Mike Ditka and Buddy Ryan were very different. I did a search on Jimmy Johnson's coaching tree and here it is.
Jimmy Johnson Coaching Tree
During his time as head coach, five assistant coaches, (Dave Campo, Butch Davis, David Shula, Dave Wannstedt, and Norv Turner) on his coaching staff were hired as head coaches across the league. His coaching tree has combined for a record of 265-337-1 in the regular season and 6-8 in the playoffs during their thirty-eight seasons as head coach after serving on his coaching staffs.
Then you have McVay and Goff break down
Goff's falling out with Rams coach Sean McVay came to an abrupt ending. As McVay admitted earlier this week, there was a communication deficiency between the two upon making the deal to trade Goff to the Lions in a move that would allow the Rams to acquire quarterback Matthew Stafford.
communication deficiency - They basically hated each other and didn't even speak to each other. That's Zim with everyone in the viking organization except his defensive players and coaches. He didn't collaborate.
I expect KOC to run the team the way McVay is running the Rams. They will be different because no two people are the same.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 7:57 am**

Btw, read that Harbaugh thought the meeting was a formality and came in thinking that the job was his. Kind of like, "You know who I am? I don't interview, my resume says enough". But I was Dr. Drake Ramoray type of mindset!!
When he discovered that he was actually not just being given the job, but was in a competition, he was out. I imagine that when confronted with having to work collaboratively with the GM and having to share the GM's vision, it became something he didn't want. They have apparently parted on good terms and saw that Harbaugh tweeted the following:
“The Wilf family and organization are first class all the way and in every way and Kwesi [Adofo-Mensah] is a shining star! The team is poised for greatness,” said Harbaugh.

Another quote saying that KAM is a Rockstar !!!

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 8:55 am**

psjordan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:26 pm Not really sure why a lot of posters on this board speak in absolutes, or close to it. Whether it's Cousins, which GM candidate they wanted, which process will or will not work, how Harbaugh was The Man and O'Connell will fail, etc.

Here's what I consider incontrovertible:

Deep down we all KNOW we don't know how these new hires will do. You can post like you know the absolute truth, but we all know that we don't know. We post to deal with it in different ways - the "I told you so" crowd loves it to go one way, the "I'll come back and eat crow" crowd likes it to go another, the "just give them a shot" crowd, the "anything is better than Zim/Rick" crowd, the "I just want some change" crowd, the "cautiously optimistic/glass half full but I-don't know" crowd, the "I don't care as long as they keep/cut Cousins" crowds - we are all dealing with the EXACT SAME feelings of "no matter WHAT I post here, I sure hope these guys pan out and I'll still dance around the house in my skivvies if they do". So I don't and won't beat anybody up about their posts on the hires. We're all dealing.

I've hired a lot of people over the years - hundreds - and I will say it's VERY hard to beat smart people who are willing to learn from every single transaction throughout the day. No matter their past experience. THOSE people are wildly successful for the most part.

Average to above-average QB's are GOLD in this league. A recent article on ESPN projected "QB moves this offseason", and they only listed 12 teams that they feel are "set" at QB, and that includes guys like ZWilson@NYJ.

Any team embarking on a QB quest has a tough road to hoe. Owners and GMs know this. Some will bite the bullet and suffer the process, others will hold on to whatever decent solution they can get at QB.

Typically I'd say not seeing Mond in action at this point is an indictment of his abilities, but I have to say with Zimmer all bets are off as to why Mond did not see action. Maybe he's simply not ready. Maybe Zimmer was teaching him a lesson. In either case, we need to know if he's a career backup at best.

This means Cousins is not an automatic jettison from the roster at this point, no matter how frustrated we are in terms of wins against winning teams.

I realize there is a lot of "these guys are professionals, they should just perform if they are up to it" thinking out there. I'll interject an opinion here - that's complete horse manure. Players respond differently to different coaching staffs, different perspectives, different gameplans, etc. There are hundreds of examples out there. Even just being TREATED differently can bring about major change in a player.

This means there is certainly a chance that Cousins "gets better" with a different staff, different relationships, a different playbook, a different in-game strategist and a different play caller. From the above-mentioned article, the WAS team has the worst QBR over the last 10 or 20 years, can't recall. So it's not like Kirk has been surrounded by tenured professors of the QB position. Of course, he could be stuck right where he is performance-wise for the rest of his career. The only point being we don't know.

So in the end it boils down to the owners and GM and new HC - can they form the right environment - including hard and soft skills - to get this team competitive in the post season? I do not think it boils down to the process used for hiring, nor the go-in position of ownership. Smart employees learn, and one of the things they learn is what they need to do in order to gain the bosses trust - and therefore some autonomy.

Who knows how the new hires will do. Certainly none of us.

Phenomenal post.

None of us knows what the outcome of this is going to be. I just appreciate the lengths Vikings’ management is going in an attempt to get this right. Have they always done things correctly? Probably not. But they’re looking in the mirror and asking what they can do better.

I also appreciate that the Rooney Rule wasn’t just lip service, with two out of four candidates being people of color, and both taken seriously as candidates. They interviewed all four candidates extensively, and treated them all the same.

Many on this board have criticized the group’s process. I say it’s a model that other teams would do well to follow.

Again, there’s no way of knowing whether KOC will be a successful hire. But given the thoroughness of the process, I’m optimistic.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:07 am**

vikeinmontana wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:52 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 1:12 pm
Is it possible that O'Connell could turn out to be a good HC? Yes. Is it likely? I don't think so.
Is it possible that Harbaugh would have been a good HC? Yes. Is it likely? Almost a certainty.
But why? That has been my question. WHY isn't it likely that O'Connell could be a good head coach?

Because most young coordinators hired as HC's aren't good HCs and that is fine. The odds were always going to be against hiring a HC who will have more success than Zimmer had.

That doesn't mean firing Zimmer was a bad choice though, and it doesn't mean we shouldn't give O'Connell a chance to succeed before we get upset about the hiring.

We needed to get better than Zimmer at HC, and if we have to go through some duds before getting better, that is okay if it ends up with us finding our next Bud Grant. Or maybe O'Connell is great from the start, puts together good gameplans, has the players playing hard for him and eventually puts together a SB championship himself. You never know, but with a new guy there is always hope, which is why it is always better to go for greatness rather than settle for just okay.

Besides, we have been to the NFCCG with Brad Childress, went to the playoffs with Lesley Frasier, won a playoff game with Mike Tice while ownership was actively trying to dismantle the team, and haven't really had a HC outside of Steckle who was so terrible we couldn't win with them. Even when it is bad, it isn't that bad.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:19 am**

4mnvikes1982 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:55 pm I know it is early but has anyone heard any rumors about offensive and defensive coordinator?

That will all fall into place after the Super Bowl and hiring. Some have expressed concern about Kevin not calling plays but we need to wait and see who he lures in here to be the OC. When his staff starts to take shape we will have a much clearer view of where we’re headed.

I probably already have a reputation as the old guy who has seen every Vikings season but here I go again. I remember how excited my dad was when he found out VanBrocklin was going to be our head coach. He was a fan but he went ballistic the first time Tarkenton scrambled. QBs were statues in the late 50’s and here was this guy zig zagged 30 yards backwards before he threw the ball. Anyways, there was a lot of buzz about our new team and hires. My dad passed in 1965 and never saw how things turned out and ushered in the Bud Grant era. We didn’t have the internet in those days but the buzz at the dinner table was positive before things went south.

I think if age and four Super Bowl losses taught me anything it’s that I have no control over anything this team does. I can elect to follow them or not. I used to get beered up and scream at the TV in the 70’s until that Dallas game with the notorious push off. If we lost I was a miserable grouch the next day but that game snapped me out of letting them dictate my mood.

Sure these new hires could go either way and I was attracted by the shiny paint and chrome of the Harbaugh prospect. In retrospect after finding out more about Jim’s quirky way of doing things I think we did the right thing. This season I resigned myself to admitting I might not see that Super Bowl win before I die. In a perverse sort of way watching them take the risk and blow things up has been fun to watch. I guess if I can’t have my Super Bowl win this meltdown and reboot will keep me glued to Vikings news all off season. I watch football for entertainment and have to admit that I’m being entertained year around.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:47 am**

I find the combo of KAM and KOC very dispiriting. Young, inexperienced, "collaborative", not in a position to challenge or marginalize ownership.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:24 am**

VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:24 pm I'm going to get a good laugh if when the Super Bowl is over O'Connell turns down the job.
Yeah I know. Perverse sense of humor.

Maybe we pull the offer if Stafford throws a bunch of interceptions and they don't score much. He did that against us but was saved by his ST.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 1:15 pm**

psjordan wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:08 pm Just saying we don't know how these hires will pan out. That's not blind optimism, that's just reality.

All I'll say is we didn't know how drafting Christian Ponder with pick #12 would pan out either, but it wasn't a huge stretch to guess.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 1:17 pm**

fiestavike wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:47 am not in a position to challenge or marginalize ownership.

This might actually be the attribute the Wilfs preferred.

Maybe in their minds they think they know better and consciously or subconsciously preferred a GM and head coach they perceived as less likely to challenge them after dealing with Spielman and Zimmer for so long.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 1:24 pm**

J. Kapp 11 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 3:22 pm
Cliff wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 2:32 pm My problem with the Ram's coordinators is that Sean McVay literally has a Photographic Memory. In the simplest terms, I think one of the things (maybe the main thing) that makes McVay's coaching style special literally can't be taught.
But all of the coaches hired away from McVay are having success. One of them is opposing him in the Super Bowl. Another is a royal pain in the Vikings’ butts up there in Green Bay. Even Brandon Staley is highly regarded and has the Chargers on the verge of being really good.

It’s believe it’s not McVay’s photographic memory that makes him special. It’s the culture he builds. When most people experience a great work culture, they find it almost impossible to exist in anything else. Building a great culture not only can be taught, it becomes ingrained in you once you experience it.

Good points. I agree culture is very important and may be the difference. I definitely want him to come in here and do well.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 1:24 pm**

vikeinmontana wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 4:16 pm Also the same reason you can have one coach on the same team for 5 seasons with success and then failure. So while I see what you're saying, and believe Harbaugh would have won games, it's still not fact just because he won prior. Educated guesses are fine, but that still doesn't mean we KNOW what is going to happen, which is what some of us are saying.

The only fact I'm dealing in when it comes to Jim Harbaugh is that he's actually been a successful head coach at the college and pro ranks. Not just successful - arguably extremely successful. His worst season in San Fran was what, 8-8? He took that team to not one, not two, but three consecutive NFC Championship games in his 4 years as the head coach and to the Superbowl in one of those seasons. He then went to Michigan and has basically repeated that success there.

KOC hasn't ever been a head coach at any level. He's the putative OC who doesn't call plays on a team enjoying a successful run this year. Convince me he's not going to be the next Brad Childress in terms of likely results. He'll probably not be as pompous as Childress was, but in terms of what he's actually done, how is he fundamentally different?

It's really hard to credibly argue this is an educated guess per se. For one candidate, there is a long track record of performance in the job, while for the other, there is literally none.

KOC (and, for that matter, KAM) is literally a roll of the proverbial dice.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 1:25 pm**

StanM wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 10:19 am
4mnvikes1982 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:55 pm I know it is early but has anyone heard any rumors about offensive and defensive coordinator?
That will all fall into place after the Super Bowl and hiring. Some have expressed concern about Kevin not calling plays but we need to wait and see who he lures in here to be the OC. When his staff starts to take shape we will have a much clearer view of where we’re headed.

I probably already have a reputation as the old guy who has seen every Vikings season but here I go again. I remember how excited my dad was when he found out VanBrocklin was going to be our head coach. He was a fan but he went ballistic the first time Tarkenton scrambled. QBs were statues in the late 50’s and here was this guy zig zagged 30 yards backwards before he threw the ball. Anyways, there was a lot of buzz about our new team and hires. My dad passed in 1965 and never saw how things turned out and ushered in the Bud Grant era. We didn’t have the internet in those days but the buzz at the dinner table was positive before things went south.

I think if age and four Super Bowl losses taught me anything it’s that I have no control over anything this team does. I can elect to follow them or not. I used to get beered up and scream at the TV in the 70’s until that Dallas game with the notorious push off. If we lost I was a miserable grouch the next day but that game snapped me out of letting them dictate my mood.

Sure these new hires could go either way and I was attracted by the shiny paint and chrome of the Harbaugh prospect. In retrospect after finding out more about Jim’s quirky way of doing things I think we did the right thing. This season I resigned myself to admitting I might not see that Super Bowl win before I die. In a perverse sort of way watching them take the risk and blow things up has been fun to watch. I guess if I can’t have my Super Bowl win this meltdown and reboot will keep me glued to Vikings news all off season. I watch football for entertainment and have to admit that I’m being entertained year around.

Y'know, reading this makes one thing clear. You'd be great to have a few beers with (assuming you drink beer ... no worries if you don't!). I go back to '69 (hence my avatar), and I feel much the same way. It's entertainment. Part of that entertainment for me is learning all I can about the Vikings and talking about it here.

But in person would be a lot more fun.

Posted: **Fri Feb 04, 2022 1:31 pm**

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Fri Feb 04, 2022 9:07 am Even when it is bad, it isn't that bad.

But it hasn't ever been good enough, either.

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