How Teddy Bridgewater fared in Sando's QB Tier Rankings

[fiestavike]

I hope you aren't referring to "advanced" stats like DVOA.

I'm not referring to DVOA. I'm also not interested in going down the "stat" path. Shouldn't have even mentioned it. It always degenerates into subjective nonsense with a cardboard cutout behind it. You can choose whatever stats you want to believe (though all I've seen generally reach the conclusion that Teddy is accurate under pressure). Without hostility, I'm honestly not too interested in convincing you at this point. When Teddy is throwing for more yards and TDs we'll both agree then that he is playing very well. There seems to be no way that your rubric allows you to conclude a QB is playing well without those particular stats. I think you place too much value on them, but so be it.

[Mothman]

I'm not referring to DVOA. I'm also not interested in going down the "stat" path. Shouldn't have even mentioned it. It always degenerates into subjective nonsense with a cardboard cutout behind it. You can choose whatever stats you want to believe (though all I've seen generally reach the conclusion that Teddy is accurate under pressure). Without hostility, I'm honestly not too interested in convincing you at this point. When Teddy is throwing for more yards and TDs we'll both agree then that he is playing very well. There seems to be no way that your rubric allows you to conclude a QB is playing well without those particular stats. I think you place too much value on them, but so be it.

Jeez... it's really depressing that after all this time and numerous explanations you don't appear to have even a basic understanding of my views on Bridgewater (or stats, for that matter). It's as if you've been reading my posts in alternate universe.

[fiestavike]

Jeez... it's really depressing that after all this time and numerous explanations you don't appear to have even a basic understanding of my views on Bridgewater (or stats, for that matter). It's as if you've been reading my posts in alternate universe.

Sorry Jim, I feel the same, and I REALLY do respect you. I just think for some reason on this we can't get anywhere near the same page and Its not fruitful to rehash it further.

[Mothman]

Warren Moon, Tommy Kramer see room to grow for Vikings QB Teddy Bridgewater

“He understands he’s got to do a better job of pushing the ball down the field,’’ Moon said. “He’s very careful with the ball. He’s very safe with the ball. He doesn’t turn it over very much for a young quarterback, but he’s got to take a few more chances down the field just so everything is not so methodical and they have to work so hard to get their scores.’’

“I think he’s a good player,’’ Kramer said. “The only thing that I didn’t like about him was he was not coming over the top of the football throwing it deep. And therefore, that’s why the balls would sail on him.

“(Bridgewater has) a real wrist-snap feel rather than coming over the top of it. If you played quarterback for as long as I did, you know how you’re supposed to make that football come out of your hand.’’

Kramer said he'd be more than happy to come up from San Antonio for 3 days to work with Bridgewater on his throwing motion (if the Vikings wanted him to do so).

Moon also says:

“He’s a solid quarterback. I think he’s going to get better and better, and I love his temperament. I love that (he’s cerebral), I love the fact that he’s a good leader.

“I think the guys really respect him in the locker room by how he works. He never gets too high or too low. … You want your quarterback to be a stabilizing force.’’

[TSonn]

I have a feeling Cosell's point is being missed. He wrote that Bridgewater "breaks down in the pocket when he senses or perceives pressure". It seems clear to me that he's talking about playing IN the pocket and saying Bridgewater overreacts to pressure, rolling away and leaving the pocket more than he should. He might still find space, remain poised with his eyes directed downfield and make some plays but I believe the point is that he seems to need a comfortable space in the pocket and without that comfortable space, he tends to overreact and leave even when it's not necessary. That's a tendency I've seen on film (again, not every time but enough to be something he needs to improve).

I think I understand, but then why show a specific clip in Arizona where Teddy feels pressure, moves around the pocket, and delivers an intermediate strike? If Cosell is trying to make the point that Turner designed the play specifically because apparently Teddy isn't good at staying in the pocket when there is "perceived" pressure, that Arizona clip is actually proving the opposite - that Teddy handled the situation really well when there was pressure (perceived or actual).

[Mothman]

I think I understand, but then why show a specific clip in Arizona where Teddy feels pressure, moves around the pocket, and delivers an intermediate strike? If Cosell is trying to make the point that Turner designed the play specifically because apparently Teddy isn't good at staying in the pocket when there is "perceived" pressure, that Arizona clip is actually proving the opposite - that Teddy handled the situation really well when there was pressure (perceived or actual).

I don't think Cosell was trying to say that Turner designed that play specifically because Bridgewater isn't good at staying in the pocket. I assume you're talking about the throw to Pruitt. The point there seemed to be to illustrate how, on first down plays, the Vikings could use more protection to make sure Bridgewater had a comfortable pocket in which to step up and throw against a more predictable coverage.

[fiestavike]

What Pocket? I haven't seen one in two years.

[Mothman]

What Pocket? I haven't seen one in two years.

Well, he had one on that play.

[fiestavike]

Well, he had one on that play.

Yeah, I'm exagerating, but its been rare. I can't blame a guy for not trusting a pocket will be there when it collapses 9 times out of every 10. On the whole though, I just don't think Cossell is correct. Teddy has tended to do an exceptional job stepping up into the pocket when its there, and his success rate has been tremendous in those circumstance. when given a pocket, he tends to react to pressure by keeping his composure, stepping up, and throwing a strike.

It was good to see the interior line going a better job holding up in pass protection against Seattle. The Tackles seemed to be playing a little "jiu jitsu" tackle If they want to go outside, just help them along and don't worry about locking them down. It's up the QB to step up and get rid of the ball, and the interior to hold up and provide a place to go. If those two things work, its a reasonable technique. Probably creates a greater vulnurability to the blitz though. The line loses some of its integrity and opens up a big blitz lane.

[Mothman]

Yeah, I'm exagerating, but its been rare. I can't blame a guy for not trusting a pocket will be there when it collapses 9 times out of every 10. On the whole though, I just don't think Cossell is correct. Teddy has tended to do an exceptional job stepping up into the pocket when its there, and his success rate has been tremendous in those circumstance. when given a pocket, he tends to react to pressure by keeping his composure, stepping up, and throwing a strike.

Sometimes... I certainly wouldn't say he's been exceptional in that department but that play against Arizona is a perfect example of him doing a great job of stepping up in the pocket to make the throw.

It was good to see the interior line going a better job holding up in pass protection against Seattle. The Tackles seemed to be playing a little "jiu jitsu" tackle If they want to go outside, just help them along and don't worry about locking them down. It's up the QB to step up and get rid of the ball, and the interior to hold up and provide a place to go. If those two things work, its a reasonable technique. Probably creates a greater vulnurability to the blitz though. The line loses some of its integrity and opens up a big blitz lane.

It's part of the "chess match".

[TSonn]

I don't think Cosell was trying to say that Turner designed that play specifically because Bridgewater isn't good at staying in the pocket. I assume you're talking about the throw to Pruitt. The point there seemed to be to illustrate how, on first down plays, the Vikings could use more protection to make sure Bridgewater had a comfortable pocket in which to step up and throw against a more predictable coverage.

I like your analysis much better here than Cosell's. Cosell says "[a]s you can see, because of the design of the play, he’s wide open in Bridgewater’s line of vision across the middle, well before the pressure could arrive" which actually does not accurately depict the situation since Teddy has to shift around inside the pocket to avoid the pressure. But I guess he wouldn't point that out in this case because it's the opposite of Teddy handling "perceived" pressure poorly.