Vikings Message Board.Com

KSViking wrote:Maybe I didn't explain my point well enough, or maybe it was misinterpreted. But let me try again. Lets just go back to years from Tice on. Guys that we have drafted in the first few rounds, that we have had high expectations of, have either turned out good right from the start, or have been first year disappointments, and have never lived up to what we had hoped. They didn't come into the league their rookie years, flop, and then turn it around in the subsequent years to become really solid players. Some players that we draft improve over time, Sully, Robison (though, I could argue that he was pretty good when we drafted him) Everson Griffen might be the best example to counter what I am saying actually, maybe even Cedric Griffin. Regardless, I think there are expectations when you are picked in early rounds of the draft, that you will be a starting quality player. Most of our guys have been solid hits, or way off misses. Ponder, Erasmus James, Troy Williamson, Chris Cook, Asher Allen, Tyrel Johnson, TJax, Ryan Cook, Kenichi Udezi, Dontaious Thomas, Darrian Scott. All of these guys were taken towards top of vikings drafts. Some due to injuries, some just never performed well, but all of them were expected to be better than they were when they first joined the league, and none of them really improved enough through "development, and patience" to ever live up to the expectations when they were taken.

How this relates to the current discussion regarding Floyd? He was taken in 1st round, prior to draft day, he was considered a top 5-10 pick. When we got him around 20, it was felt that we got a steal. Last year, IMO and opinion of some others, he really didn't live up to his billing, that he would be a dominant DT. Now several people on the board keep predicting he will be a Pro Bowl player in next few years to come. Im just saying, our teams history would dictate, that while he may not have reached his ceiling, he probably also will not be developed into something MUCH better than what we have already seen from his last year. And followed that up with, I hope that Zimmer and his staff can change that.

Thanks for the clarification.

I don't think Vikings history says much about what will happen with Floyd one or the other. If you want to focus exclusively on recent history I see your point but like every other team, the Vikings have been able to develop some very good (even great) players over the years. Every case is unique anyway. What happened with player X or Y 10 years ago under a different coaching staff really has no bearing at all on Floyd's development or the future of his career.

I don't think Floyd can accurately be described as a first year flop and predictions of future Pro Bowl excellence are premature. He hasn't shown that kind of ability yet either. The Vikings chose to bring him along gradually, to let him play behind an accomplished veteran they felt was still a better option, and consequently, Floyd didn't get the chance to succeed or fail as a starter. It looks like he'll get it this year.

Regarding expectations: there are expectations when a player is chosen in the first round of the draft but those expectations vary quite a bit and I don't think it's fair to Floyd to expect him to play like a dominant top 5 tackle. He wasn't drafted in the top 5. He was drafted at #23. It doesn't matter where he was projected to be drafted. People have become crazy over that stuff as the NFL and the draft have grown more and more popular. Every year we're inundated with months of changing opinions from draft gurus. mock drafters, etc. but the teams ultimately decide where players are selected and it's their assessment of players that matters most. Mock-drafters and draft insiders miscalculate where players will be chosen all the time.

Anyway, Floyd was drafted at #23 and the expectations for him should be in line with the 23rd pick in the draft, not a top 5 pick. Did he live up to his billing last year? Probably not... he didn't have a huge impact on the team but he wasn't asked to play a huge role. I think it's premature to call him a bust or even to say, as you did above, that he will "probably" not be developed into something much better than he was last year. That's a guess, just like the Pro Bowl predictions are a guess. Sometimes, we just have to sit back and see what actually happens.

That's my take anyway.

Mothman wrote: You just agreed in your post that Sullivan was an example of the Vikings developing such a player.

Look, we've gone from KSViking's statement: "Not too many home brewed projects that became solid after shaky rookie seasons" to his subsequent question, "What Viking player that we drafted has not set the earth on fire for the first year or 2 of their careers here, but then turned around and lit it up afterwards?" to your comment that "The Vikes have seldom took a guy who was struggling and turn him into a superstar".

What are we talking about here, guys? Are we talking about Vikings players that became solid after shaky rookie seasons or struggling players that became superstars and "lit the earth on fire"? Those sound like different subjects to me.

The Vikings have developed plenty of players over the years who went on from unimpressive or relatively unproductive rookie seasons to become solid players or better. The idea that the team's coaching has been so bad over the years that Vikings fans aren't used to seeing players develop and improve is ridiculous.

Yes only ONE player out of how many that have donned a Vikings uniform. What I meant to put is usually always acquire guys who are already good. I keeping forget that you guys try so hard to make people look silly in their posts when actually you're misinterpret what I said. You probably knew what I was trying to say. I guess you get kick out of trying to make someone look silly over the internet though. Okay.

Panthers signed Joe Webb for QB depth.

Funkytown wrote:Panthers signed Joe Webb for QB depth.

Great for Joe, he was always a favorite dark horse of mine, I'm glad he was able to catch on somewhere. Hopefully he can make it through camp!

mondry wrote: Great for Joe, he was always a favorite dark horse of mine, I'm glad he was able to catch on somewhere. Hopefully he can make it through camp!

Me too. He's easy to root for.

I want to say thanks to Minnesota Vikings and their fans for the great 4yrs they have given me. MN will always have a place in my heart.

-- Joe Webb (@JoeWebb_14) March 21, 2014

Good for Joe. I question what Carolina is doing though. A Cam Newton lite, in a way. They need WR's, so I wonder if that played into it...If so, it shows their desperation.

Their WR depth is pretty damn bad though...Actually, it's horrible.

Funkytown wrote:Panthers signed Joe Webb for QB depth.

Are you being serious? I hope so.

Funkytown wrote:Panthers signed Joe Webb for QB depth.

I'm happy for both sides on this. I love Webb as a project QB, not so much as a WR. He was just wasting a spot on our roster. Glad someone gave him a shot at QB, especially a team with a QB like Cam so Webb will fit right into there system.

King James wrote:Yes only ONE player out of how many that have donned a Vikings uniform. What I meant to put is usually always acquire guys who are already good. I keeping forget that you guys try so hard to make people look silly in their posts when actually you're misinterpret what I said. You probably knew what I was trying to say. I guess you get kick out of trying to make someone look silly over the internet though. Okay.

I'm not trying to make you look silly but the onus to communicate your thoughts clearly is on you. If you feel you're being misunderstood, please clarify what you mean in a way that leaves no doubt for the reader. You still haven't done that and the post above is no help at all. It's just insulting.

PLAYERS RE-SIGNED

--C/G Joe Berger: UFA; terms unknown.

--QB Matt Cassel: Potential UFA; $10M/2 yrs.

--LB Larry Dean: Potential RFA; terms unknown.

--NT Fred Evans: UFA; 1 yr, terms unknown.

--DE Everson Griffen: UFA; $42.5M/5 yrs, $6M SB/$19.8M guaranteed.

--LG Charlie Johnson: UFA; $5M/2 yrs.

--CB/PR Marcus Sherels: Potential RFA; 1 yr, terms unknown.

--WR Jerome Simpson: UFA; terms unknown.

PLAYERS ACQUIRED

--LB Jasper Brinkley: FA Cardinals; terms unknown.

--CB Derek Cox: FA Chargers; $780,000/11 yr.

--DT Tom Johnson: Not tendered as RFA by Saints; $845,000/1 yr.

--DT Linval Joseph: UFA Giants; $31.5M/5 yrs.

--CB Captain Munnerlyn: UFA Panthers; 3 yrs, terms unknown.

--DE Corey Wootton: UFA Bears; 1 yr, terms unknown.

PLAYERS LOST

--TE John Carlson (released).

--WR Greg Childs (released).

--CB Chris Cook: UFA 49ers; 1 yr, terms unknown.

--RB Toby Gerhart: UFA Jaguars; $10.5M/3 yrs, $4.5M guaranteed.

--DT Letroy Guion (released).

--LB Erin Henderson (released).

--WR Joe Webb: UFA Panthers; terms unknown.

OJVike,

The first post in this thread is being kept up to date. Contract terms are often unknown or speculative for a few days, but eventually become known. If I miss anything, be sure to let me know. Thanks.

http://vikingsmessageboard.com/viewtopi ... =1&t=27097

Eli wrote: Incoming Players Acquired via Free Agency or Trade
Jasper Brinkley LB - UFA, Arizona Cardinals (1 year, $830K)
Linval Joseph DT - UFA, New York Giants (5 years, $31.5M)
Captain Munnerlyn CB - UFA, Carolina Panthers (3 years, $11.25M)
Derek Cox CB - FA, San Diego Chargers (1 year, $730K)
Tom Johnson DT - RFA, New Orleans Saints(1 year, $845K)
Corey Wootton DE - UFA, Chicago Bears (1 year, $1.5M)

Anyone else notice that all of the players we have brought in have been defensive? I know that was the biggest struggle, but we have done nothing to help the offense.

akvikingsfan wrote: Anyone else notice that all of the players we have brought in have been defensive? I know that was the biggest struggle, but we have done nothing to help the offense.

I heard we signed Matt Cassel.

#championship

dead_poet wrote: I heard we signed Matt Cassel.

#championship

And they also managed to get Charlie Johnson under contract before Seattle or San Francisco could snatch him up.

I'm not expecting many developments on offense this year ... a QB, a guard, maybe a late WR in the draft, then possibly a backup RB through free agency. Plus the usual camp fodder that they bring in every year.

dead_poet wrote:I heard we signed Matt Cassel.

#championship

... and Charlie Johnson!

#dynasty