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I think Johnson is nothing but a camp body. I think Spielman will still assess the depth behind Floyd in the draft or FA. I can't see them rolling with Johnson going forward

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
The problem is, you have nothing to backup Floyd being a bust. It's nearly impossible to say someone is a bust when they play 34% of snaps of their rookie season. You just say he did "nothing" and leave it at that. Sorry but that's not proof in my eyes nor anybody else's. I'm sure a lot of people said guys like Nick Fairley and Dontari Poe were busts too after they did "nothing" in their rookie seasons

No the problem is you refuse to comprehend what I'm telling you. I've already told you why I think is a bust, but you don't agree or "think it's enough proof." I don't care whether you don't think my reason is proof nor do I care if anyone else don't think it's proof.

You're sorta right on your assumption that I though Nick Fairley and Dontari Poe. Fairly was very inconsistent, and his off-field troubles didn't help him. He was arrested twice a couple years ago here in Alabama, one for marijuana possession(which were dropped), and one for DUI while trying to elude the police. Fairly wasn't making it seem like he was going to last long in the NFL but the Lions stuck with him.

As for Poe, I think really think he was a bust, I just thought he was average at best. I never imagined him being a pro bowler. But I can't compare him to Floyd since Poe actually started for his team his rookie year. But probably a better DT than Floyd will ever be.

*Haters gonna hate*

Hater- a person who greatly dislikes a specified person or thing.

I don't recall saying I dislike like Floyd. I said he was bust. A bust is a failure who did not pan out in the draft, especially the 1st round. I see in today's generation people mix negative remarks with hate. But alright then.

While I don't know that you can categorize Floyd as a bust quite yet, I also feel like he wasn't quite what I would have wanted to see out of a 1st round pick. Whether that is because of politics that he didn't get a chance, whether it was because Frazier just felt that KW was that much better, or whether he didn't show enough talent or star quality in practice and his limited time on the field to get more opportunities. Who knows. I believe that by the end of this year, we will have a good idea of what we have in Floyd though. Either he comes in, and owns his position, or else we will prob be looking for another 3 technique in the off season next year.

I don't think you can fault James for being disappointed for the production we got out of Floyd for where he was taken in the draft though. Bust might be extreme, but I think more was expected.

King James wrote: No the problem is you refuse to comprehend what I'm telling you. I've already told you why I think is a bust, but you don't agree or "think it's enough proof." I don't care whether you don't think my reason is proof nor do I care if anyone else don't think it's proof.

You're sorta right on your assumption that I though Nick Fairley and Dontari Poe. Fairly was very inconsistent, and his off-field troubles didn't help him. He was arrested twice a couple years ago here in Alabama, one for marijuana possession(which were dropped), and one for DUI while trying to elude the police. Fairly wasn't making it seem like he was going to last long in the NFL but the Lions stuck with him.

As for Poe, I think really think he was a bust, I just thought he was average at best. I never imagined him being a pro bowler. But I can't compare him to Floyd since Poe actually started for his team his rookie year. But probably a better DT than Floyd will ever be.

Well I guess everyone is failing to comprehend what you're saying. I mean you basically just admitted you were wrong on Poe and Fairley so obviously your outlook on DTs is quite off. So why would anyone agree with your Floyd plea?

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Well I guess everyone is failing to comprehend what you're saying. I mean you basically just admitted you were wrong on Poe and Fairley so obviously your outlook on DTs is quite off. So why would anyone agree with your Floyd plea?

I think everyone just gets caught up in wording. Obviously Floyd can’t be a “bust” yet by any accepted definition of the word. Pretty much the only way you could define a 1st round player coming into the 2nd year as a bust would be if he wasn’t on a team anymore.

Replace “Floyd is a bust” for “I think Floyd is going to be a bust” and you’ve got the gist of what’s being said. People can use their own judgment on whose opinion they trust around here

Pondering Her Percy wrote: Well I guess everyone is failing to comprehend what you're saying. I mean you basically just admitted you were wrong on Poe and Fairley so obviously your outlook on DTs is quite off. So why would anyone agree with your Floyd plea?

What did I just say son? Did I not just say I don't care if anyone agree with me on Floyd or not? What part of that are you not registering in your head? Why should I care if no one agrees with my opinion? Also I said I didn't think Poe was a bust, just average. I didn't see enough of Poe to even consider him one.

As for Fairly, I followed this guy since high school. 3-star prospect,and had to go to community college because his grades weren't good enough to get into Auburn. He had ONE good season at Auburn. He played only two seasons. But ONE good season, the same season that Auburn won the national championship, and all of a sudden he's 1st round talent. I was sure he was going to be a failure. Him and his buddy Cam Newton, had me concerned about why teams trust them after only one season. Not to mention both of these guys had off field issues that didn't help their careers at first.

I don't know how many players have went in the 1st round after only a season of really proving their worth but I guess players before them have got drafted like that before.

Jeffbleedspurple wrote:Floyd ain't going to be no bust, I mean maybe/more than likely Floyd won't be no bust and I am surprised really anyone would even think so based on what he did last year. The kid going to step it up big time, watch and see.

Maybe as Vikings fans, we aren't used to guys improving year after year from good coaching. Most of the best guys on our roster over the last 15 years, either started out really good, or we brought them in from other teams. Not too many home brewed projects that became solid after shaky rookie seasons. Hopefully Zimmer can do something to change this. But, you can't blame James for not thinking he will improve. What Viking player that we drafted has not set the earth on fire for the first year or 2 of their careers here, but then turned around and lit it up afterwards? If I had to name off our best players, most of those guys were good their rookie years, and the guys that we parted ways with after the rookie contracts, have been guys that never really took off.

KSViking wrote: Maybe as Vikings fans, we aren't used to guys improving year after year from good coaching. Most of the best guys on our roster over the last 15 years, either started out really good, or we brought them in from other teams. Not too many home brewed projects that became solid after shaky rookie seasons. Hopefully Zimmer can do something to change this. But, you can't blame James for not thinking he will improve. What Viking player that we drafted has not set the earth on fire for the first year or 2 of their careers here, but then turned around and lit it up afterwards?

Sidney Rice fit that description, at least for a season.

I don't know if it can be said that a center ever "lights it up" but Sullivan showed remarkable improvement after his first few seasons.

Robison could probably be considered another example.

It happens.

I can agree on Sully.

Sidney Rice, not so much. Brent F--v- made Rice look like a superstar for one season. Since then he hasn't done nothing. I'm glad the Vikings let him walk.

Robinson, I don't think I'd consider him as terrible when he first came. He always been an average player at best who maybe has potential to be really good.

But as KSViking explained, that's basically how I feel. The Vikes have seldom took a guy who was struggling and turn him into a superstar. Just look at our QB track record. That explains this team from a development standpoint. 50+ years and we only had TWO franchise QBs who were any good. One who was HoF caliber, and one who was on the rise before he got injured. Other than that, as KSViking stated, we've always acquired players who were already good. It's not like we developed a struggling player.

Hopefully Zimmer can finally be that coach to develop our guys into great players.

King James wrote:I can agree on Sully.

Sidney Rice, not so much. Brent F--v- made Rice look like a superstar for one season. Since then he hasn't done nothing. I'm glad the Vikings let him walk.

Robinson, I don't think I'd consider him as terrible when he first came. He always been an average player at best who maybe has potential to be really good.

But as KSViking explained, that's basically how I feel. The Vikes have seldom took a guy who was struggling and turn him into a superstar. Just look at our QB track record. That explains this team from a development standpoint. 50+ years and we only had TWO franchise QBs who were any good. One who was HoF caliber, and one who was on the rise before he got injured. Other than that, as KSViking stated, we've always acquired players who were already good. It's not like we developed a struggling player.

Hopefully Zimmer can finally be that coach to develop our guys into great players.

He is talking about Robison the DE from Texas not Robinson the cornerback. I'll guess that is what you misunderstood. I hope so because Robison has and is a very good DE who has developed through the years.

King James wrote:I can agree on Sully.

Sidney Rice, not so much. Brent F--v- made Rice look like a superstar for one season. Since then he hasn't done nothing. I'm glad the Vikings let him walk.

Robinson, I don't think I'd consider him as terrible when he first came. He always been an average player at best who maybe has potential to be really good.

But as KSViking explained, that's basically how I feel. The Vikes have seldom took a guy who was struggling and turn him into a superstar. Just look at our QB track record. That explains this team from a development standpoint. 50+ years and we only had TWO franchise QBs who were any good. One who was HoF caliber, and one who was on the rise before he got injured. Other than that, as KSViking stated, we've always acquired players who were already good. It's not like we developed a struggling player.

You just agreed in your post that Sullivan was an example of the Vikings developing such a player.

Look, we've gone from KSViking's statement: "Not too many home brewed projects that became solid after shaky rookie seasons" to his subsequent question, "What Viking player that we drafted has not set the earth on fire for the first year or 2 of their careers here, but then turned around and lit it up afterwards?" to your comment that "The Vikes have seldom took a guy who was struggling and turn him into a superstar".

What are we talking about here, guys? Are we talking about Vikings players that became solid after shaky rookie seasons or struggling players that became superstars and "lit the earth on fire"? Those sound like different subjects to me.

The Vikings have developed plenty of players over the years who went on from unimpressive or relatively unproductive rookie seasons to become solid players or better. The idea that the team's coaching has been so bad over the years that Vikings fans aren't used to seeing players develop and improve is ridiculous.

Mothman wrote:

Sidney Rice fit that description, at least for a season.

I don't know if it can be said that a center ever "lights it up" but Sullivan showed remarkable improvement after his first few seasons.

Robison could probably be considered another example.

It happens.

Maybe I didn't explain my point well enough, or maybe it was misinterpreted. But let me try again. Lets just go back to years from Tice on. Guys that we have drafted in the first few rounds, that we have had high expectations of, have either turned out good right from the start, or have been first year disappointments, and have never lived up to what we had hoped. They didn't come into the league their rookie years, flop, and then turn it around in the subsequent years to become really solid players. Some players that we draft improve over time, Sully, Robison (though, I could argue that he was pretty good when we drafted him) Everson Griffen might be the best example to counter what I am saying actually, maybe even Cedric Griffin. Regardless, I think there are expectations when you are picked in early rounds of the draft, that you will be a starting quality player. Most of our guys have been solid hits, or way off misses. Ponder, Erasmus James, Troy Williamson, Chris Cook, Asher Allen, Tyrel Johnson, TJax, Ryan Cook, Kenichi Udezi, Dontaious Thomas, Darrian Scott. All of these guys were taken towards top of vikings drafts. Some due to injuries, some just never performed well, but all of them were expected to be better than they were when they first joined the league, and none of them really improved enough through "development, and patience" to ever live up to the expectations when they were taken.

How this relates to the current discussion regarding Floyd? He was taken in 1st round, prior to draft day, he was considered a top 5-10 pick. When we got him around 20, it was felt that we got a steal. Last year, IMO and opinion of some others, he really didn't live up to his billing, that he would be a dominant DT. Now several people on the board keep predicting he will be a Pro Bowl player in next few years to come. Im just saying, our teams history would dictate, that while he may not have reached his ceiling, he probably also will not be developed into something MUCH better than what we have already seen from his last year. And followed that up with, I hope that Zimmer and his staff can change that.

As an example on another team. Gerald McCoy, came out same year as Suh. Analysts were split as far as who was the better selection. TB ended up with McCoy, and after the first season, he was no where near what was expected. Suh had exploded, and McCoy was just ok. 2nd year, he got injured, and unable to do much in the limited games he played. Then, over the past 2 years, he has developed and become the dominant DT that they thought they had drafted back in 2014. He has redeemed himself after 2 years of poor play and injuries. I don't recall many of these type of players on the Vikings roster over past 10-15 years. I was hoping for that our of Ponder, had hoped for that out of Cook, but it never happened. Im hoping for more of a McCoy story out of Floyd, and less of a Vernon Ghoulston story.