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Bridgewater's "game" so far has been average at best. I think that is pretty obvious. So I'm not sure what there is to argue there. He's thrown 28 TDs to 21 INTs in his first two years. It's not like he was some elite QB before this injury. He's as big of a gamble as they come right now. And don't bother using Peyton Manning and Brett Favre. Saying "well they werent that great their first couple years and then they became great". Its nothing but speculation. You're saying Teddy's got "game". I don't know what that means because IMO, 28 TDs and 21 INTs is average as it gets. I mean to throw 14 TDs in your second year as a starter in the same offense with an elite RB behind you isn't good. He was averaging 200 yards a game in his SECOND YEAR. 24 yards less than his first year. I'm not sure where you're getting your stats from. Blame the OL, blame whoever but bottom line is, thats not good.Slick Rick wrote: I read all of it, but it just came off like you were attempting to discredit Bridgewater as a viable option based off of one performance. I can see how you'd wonder about Bridgewater's condition having an impact on the way that he's going to be able to perform, especially with a significant knee injury, but Bridgewater has always had game and I doubt that's gone. As far as happy feet goes, every QB has happy feet when their offensive line isn't playing very well, and Teddy was behind some pretty damn awful offensive lines in case you've forgotten. I didn't really respond to that because that's usually the go-to argument for my dad when he's drunk and wants to sound like he knows what he's talking about, but doesn't know how to deliver an articulate criticism.
He could run?? He never ran once that game. He could barely move. It was obvious to anyone watching that game. Vikings fan or not.As for the Bradford thing, I think it's hilarious how you say that Bradford literally couldn't walk when he was clearly able to walk onto the field and play, and also could run for some reason despite the fact that he literally was unable to walk - lol. Also, as overstated as your point may be, it just makes it worse that there might some slight truth to it because it brings us back to questions about the condition of HIS knee, which has repeatedly flared up, been torn, etc. over the years dating back to college.
Dude again, where are you getting your stats from?? The stats support it?? Ok. Well Kirk Cousins was sacked 41 times this year. 41!!!! That is more than Sam Bradford did in 2016 behind one of the worst OL us Vikings fans have ever seen. And Cousins is a lot more mobile than Bradford is. You say Teddy's OL was SO bad and he was sacked 44 times. But Cousins was sacked 41 times this year and his line was good?
On Cousins - for starters, his offensive line was never bad and have typically been one of the top units in the league while he's been there and all of the stats support this. If you feel so inclined, google PFF's rankings for the top offensive line units in 2017 and 2016, the Redskins are ranked pretty high. As for the receiving corps, he had Vernon Davis, Reed, and Pryor was coming off a 1,000 yard season in Cleveland and Cousins wasn't able to do much with him. Your argument seems to want to make all of the excuses for him, but doesn't want to criticize much of what he wasn't able to do. I think Cousins is good, but certainly not worth 30M+ per year, and I'm hoping that the Vikings go in a different direction.
He "has the game"? Again, how and where do you see that?? What stats "definitely back that up"? If you want to use stats, you're beat.I never said we should make Teddy the starter, but I think if his knee is okay and the rest of his tool set isn't impacted by the injury, Teddy has the game to be a viable starter and his previous stats definitely do back that up. Whether he's capable of playing up to his former ability or not definitely does remain to be seen. We'll have to wait to find out no matter what.
Nice numbers. Let's not forget that Cousin's has twice as many games played as Teddy. And has been playing in the same system as the starter for the last three years. So let's compare their first 29 games. Something more akin to reality.Pondering Her Percy wrote: Cousins TD:INT ratio is nearly 2.5 to 1. Teddy's is nearly 1 to 1.
Cousins has broke 4,000 yards the last 3 years and one year was 83 yards shy of breaking 5,000. Teddy hasnt broke 3,300.
Cousins completion percentage averages a little over 67%. Teddy is about 64.8%.
Cousins yards per completion is 7.8. Teddys is 7.25.
Cousins averages 59 20+ yard passes per year. Teddy averages about 40.
Cousins averages 10 40+ yard passes per year. Teddy averages 6.5
Cousins has had very weak defenses. Teddy's were in the top half of the league every year.
Cousins has had very weak RBs. Teddy had one of the best ever in 2015 and he still had many underwhelming performances that year.
Cousins crushes him in every statistical category pretty much. Teddy's stats work against you in an argument like this. They are average to even below average. Kirk Cousins has been very consistent over the last 3 years. He also has never had a major injury. The two aren't even close to being comparable.
Code: Select all
Cousins Teddy
Pass attempts. 1003 850
Completions. 685 65.6% 551 64.7%
TDs. 46 4.5% of pass attempts. 29 3.3% of pass attempts
Ints. 29 2.9% of pass attempts 22 2.6% of pass attempts.
Rushing yards 131 398
Raptorman wrote:Nice numbers. Let's not forget that Cousin's has twice as many games played as Teddy. And has been playing in the same system as the starter for the last three years. So let's compare their first 29 games. Something more akin to reality.Pondering Her Percy wrote: Cousins TD:INT ratio is nearly 2.5 to 1. Teddy's is nearly 1 to 1.
Cousins has broke 4,000 yards the last 3 years and one year was 83 yards shy of breaking 5,000. Teddy hasnt broke 3,300.
Cousins completion percentage averages a little over 67%. Teddy is about 64.8%.
Cousins yards per completion is 7.8. Teddys is 7.25.
Cousins averages 59 20+ yard passes per year. Teddy averages about 40.
Cousins averages 10 40+ yard passes per year. Teddy averages 6.5
Cousins has had very weak defenses. Teddy's were in the top half of the league every year.
Cousins has had very weak RBs. Teddy had one of the best ever in 2015 and he still had many underwhelming performances that year.
Cousins crushes him in every statistical category pretty much. Teddy's stats work against you in an argument like this. They are average to even below average. Kirk Cousins has been very consistent over the last 3 years. He also has never had a major injury. The two aren't even close to being comparable.
So yes, while Cousins number are currently better than Bridgewater's, after 29 games only his TD percentage was greater. And I am sure that the extra 30 games helped in overall numbers. There is not a lot of difference after 29 games. It will be interesting to see what Teddy's' numbers are after 30 more games. IF he ever gets that chance. One thing Cousins doesn't bring to the table is he is not a threat to run. Not sure Teddy would be after the knee either.Code: Select all
Cousins Teddy Pass attempts. 1003 850 Completions. 685 65.6% 551 64.7% TDs. 46 4.5% of pass attempts. 29 3.3% of pass attempts Ints. 29 2.9% of pass attempts 22 2.6% of pass attempts. Rushing yards 131 398
Let's add one more thing to think about OC. Sean McVay vs Norv Turner.
I get what you’re saying but bottom line is, Teddy has shown us nothing in the sense of if he can be a legit QB or not. And hasn’t played in two years. Nearly lost his leg. You have a giant question mark of a QB in Teddy and a legit QB in Cousins. It’s a no brainer.Raptorman wrote:Point being Cousins wasn't anything special his first 29 games. But sure let's compare his last 30 games to Teddy's 29. After all, I'm sure if Teddy had been able to play the last two years his stats wouldn't have improved any. After all, he was just average after 29 games.
I don’t see how that makes any more sense. Your opinion.Pondering Her Percy wrote:I get what you’re saying but bottom line is, Teddy has shown us nothing in the sense of if he can be a legit QB or not.
and so has a bunch of 2nd stringers that are waiting to get on the field. Sitting doesn't mean much IMO. Most still prepare as if they were starting. But sitting and not practicing, yes. Bridgewater has been practicing since October, and was looking good in practice from what I've read.And hasn’t played in two years.
I agree. To me, that's the biggest question but it may or may matter. They won't let him play if they're not confident he's 100% healed and ready to go. If there's a question about his health, move on.Nearly lost his leg.
It's not a no brainer because you have to take into account cost, compatibility, and if the Vikings staff really believe in Cousins.You have a giant question mark of a QB in Teddy and a legit QB in Cousins. It’s a no brainer
If we compare Bridgewater’s late-game performances over his first two years (’14-’15) to all quarterbacks with more than 50 throws in the fourth quarter down by one score over the last two years (’16-’17), we find that he was among the best of the best in the NFL, only trailing Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck (2016 only), Drew Brees, Russell Wilson and Tom Brady in quarterback rating.
https://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2018 ... ifference/Doug Farrar
Primary issue I see with Cousins in his 2017 tape is his processing speed and ability to adjust. It's not that he's hopeless in this regard, but he doesn't seem to have that in-play adjustment level to veer off his original palette of reads and make the better call on the fly.
When Peterson missed most of the 2014 season suspended, the Vikings turned to more single-back sets with three wide receivers on the field to help out rookie QB Teddy Bridgewater.Minnesota went back to the two-back, two-receiver sets when Peterson returned in 2015. That included fewer snaps from the gun.In 2015, Peterson carried the ball 32 times out shotgun formations. That was a career high. The Vikings attempted 387 runs out of the gun in 2014, per ESPN.com.
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/10/nfl-min ... n-petersonWhile most of Bridgewater’s 2015 attempts came in obvious passing situations — when defenses can bring in sub packages and employ their more complicated coverages and blitzes — Sam Bradford has thrown more passes on early downs against base defenses that don’t know whether to gear up against the pass or defend the run.
My opinion? Ok. Well please enlighten me how Bridgewater has PROVED he can be a LEGIT QB?808vikingsfan wrote:Your opinion.Pondering Her Percy wrote:I get what you’re saying but bottom line is, Teddy has shown us nothing in the sense of if he can be a legit QB or not.
and so has a bunch of 2nd stringers that are waiting to get on the field. Sitting doesn't mean much IMO. Most still prepare as if they were starting. But sitting and not practicing, yes. Bridgewater has been practicing since October, and was looking good in practice from what I've read.And hasn’t played in two years.
I agree. To me, that's the biggest question but it may or may matter. They won't let him play if they're not confident he's 100% healed and ready to go. If there's a question about his health, move on.Nearly lost his leg.
It's not a no brainer because you have to take into account cost, compatibility, and if the Vikings staff really believe in Cousins.You have a giant question mark of a QB in Teddy and a legit QB in Cousins. It’s a no brainer
Also, the stats you provided earlier makes sense with Peterson as RB. Naturally, a run heavy offense will deflate a QBs stats. If you're saying WAS defense was bad, a QB that has to come from behind will have inflated stats. And you forgot to include the most important stat, W/L. If you think the 49ers were that bad but Garoppolo made them legit, how can you defend Cousin's terrible winning percentage?
For you it's a no brainer. For other fans it's most likely a no brainer. But for Zimmer and Co., I don't think it is.
I, for one, would like to see Bridgewater in a balanced and unpredictable (or less predictable) offense with protection.
Analysis from the other side of the argument.
If we compare Bridgewater’s late-game performances over his first two years (’14-’15) to all quarterbacks with more than 50 throws in the fourth quarter down by one score over the last two years (’16-’17), we find that he was among the best of the best in the NFL, only trailing Ben Roethlisberger, Andrew Luck (2016 only), Drew Brees, Russell Wilson and Tom Brady in quarterback rating.https://www.1500espn.com/vikings-2/2018 ... ifference/Doug Farrar
Primary issue I see with Cousins in his 2017 tape is his processing speed and ability to adjust. It's not that he's hopeless in this regard, but he doesn't seem to have that in-play adjustment level to veer off his original palette of reads and make the better call on the fly.
And let's not forget how the offense really looked when Peterson was in.When Peterson missed most of the 2014 season suspended, the Vikings turned to more single-back sets with three wide receivers on the field to help out rookie QB Teddy Bridgewater.Minnesota went back to the two-back, two-receiver sets when Peterson returned in 2015. That included fewer snaps from the gun.In 2015, Peterson carried the ball 32 times out shotgun formations. That was a career high. The Vikings attempted 387 runs out of the gun in 2014, per ESPN.com.http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/10/nfl-min ... n-petersonWhile most of Bridgewater’s 2015 attempts came in obvious passing situations — when defenses can bring in sub packages and employ their more complicated coverages and blitzes — Sam Bradford has thrown more passes on early downs against base defenses that don’t know whether to gear up against the pass or defend the run.
Like I said if we keep him and keep Case. I’m all for it. Because we can see what Teddy has in the preseason and maybe compete with case but to just go all in with Teddy and maybe a rookie is asinine IMO. Way too risky. We have a SB roster. Were THIS close. It’s cousins or Case. Gotta bemosscarter wrote:I'm right with you pondering: anyone but Teddy.
Has MossCarter made a comment in the past years, that didnt involve bashing Teddy, who didnt even have 3 years to try and prove himself, and with 2 sh!t Oline while he was QB? I wish I could ignore anything he said in comments too, he drives me crazy with his changing of mind on every QB every other day.Pondering Her Percy wrote:Like I said if we keep him and keep Case. I’m all for it. Because we can see what Teddy has in the preseason and maybe compete with case but to just go all in with Teddy and maybe a rookie is asinine IMO. Way too risky. We have a SB roster. Were THIS close. It’s cousins or Case. Gotta bemosscarter wrote:I'm right with you pondering: anyone but Teddy.
First of all, when did you become a Rick supporter?PurpleKoolaid wrote:Has MossCarter made a comment in the past years, that didnt involve bashing Teddy, who didnt even have 3 years to try and prove himself, and with 2 sh!t Oline while he was QB? I wish I could ignore anything he said in comments too, he drives me crazy with his changing of mind on every QB every other day.Pondering Her Percy wrote:Like I said if we keep him and keep Case. I’m all for it. Because we can see what Teddy has in the preseason and maybe compete with case but to just go all in with Teddy and maybe a rookie is asinine IMO. Way too risky. We have a SB roster. Were THIS close. It’s cousins or Case. Gotta bemosscarter wrote:I'm right with you pondering: anyone but Teddy.
Do people really think Rick would have Teddy starting without looking at things none of you even know about? Consulting doctors, the rest of the coaches? Rick wants to win now as much as anyone, its kind of now or never for him I think.
I dont think we will get Cousins. Hes going to want more then we have, and more then what we will be able to afford the next few years. Unless the Jets and Broncos think they can rebuild with a rookie QB. But Cousins is a pipe dream right now. Bradford isnt going to pull the same sh!t on us again. Its going to be, more then likely Case for a large sum of money, or for Teddy, at about half of what Case would get. And even I who loves Teddy, in all honesty, and think he can be a good QB if he has some Oline protection, am not sure teddy has what it will take to not only bring us to the SB in the next few years but WIN it! If it is Teddy thats chosen to be the QB, there will be so much hate on this board, I hope the Mods nip it in the bud.