Vikings Message Board.Com

Pondering Her Percy wrote: I was about to say the same thing. You say you support him and like his progress yet you take shots at him in almost every post you make. All you keep using is the first game against Detroit. Why don't you let this weeks game do the talking. That was the first legitimate defense Teddy faced in his young NFL career. Also, 2 of those INTs were tipped balls. One literally went through Asiatas hands which is not Teddys fault at all. The other was tipped at the line. Teddy has improved in every aspect since then. Calling him out about 1 bad game he had does not defend your point of him "not living up to expectations".

I'm going to stand up for Purple Bruise's (if I have the quote attributions correct!) right to post contrarian information. The question at hand is whether we stand pat with Teddy or we keep our eye out for other options (at least, that's how I would paraphrase it). We need the PB's of the world to keep us honest. I personally think that Teddy is the most polished rookie pocket (not saying overall QB, but his pocket presence is really surreal) passer I have ever seen. But then PB reminds me of the issues early on getting the ball in the end zone. And the issues with taking sacks when he didn't need to. And the issues of having a really bad game against Detroit. I really want to ignore those issues, and say "He's past that. He's grown now". But I can't really be sure. PB keeps me honest.

Same with Mothman. I don't think he's right about drafting a QB next year (in part because we'll be drafting in the middle of the rounds), but he makes a valid point. QB is the most important position on the team. If you think you can improve the most important position on the team, you do it (at least, if the cost isn't too high). I guess I trust Norv and Zim to decide whether the opportunity cost of drafting another QB is worth it - if, after the season, those two guys (with all their experience) aren't sold on Teddy and think we can do better with a Winston, for example, then I think we have to trust their judgement. It may be wrong, but surely it's more likely to be correct than our judgement.

You improve it but not when you have glaring holes at WR, OL, MLB and CB. You assess your needs with prime talent in the early rounds. QB is not a need right now. The only "need" for QB right now is a 3rd string developmental guy which is not something you draft in the early rounds. This class isn't even a good QB class. It's actually pretty terrible to be honest. The top 2 are Mariota and Winston and neither impress me at all and in all honesty, I wouldn't even want them on this team if we didn't have Teddy

John_Viveiros wrote:I'm going to stand up for Purple Bruise's (if I have the quote attributions correct!) right to post contrarian information. The question at hand is whether we stand pat with Teddy or we keep our eye out for other options (at least, that's how I would paraphrase it). We need the PB's of the world to keep us honest. I personally think that Teddy is the most polished rookie pocket (not saying overall QB, but his pocket presence is really surreal) passer I have ever seen. But then PB reminds me of the issues early on getting the ball in the end zone. And the issues with taking sacks when he didn't need to. And the issues of having a really bad game against Detroit. I really want to ignore those issues, and say "He's past that. He's grown now". But I can't really be sure. PB keeps me honest.

Same with Mothman. I don't think he's right about drafting a QB next year (in part because we'll be drafting in the middle of the rounds), but he makes a valid point. QB is the most important position on the team. If you think you can improve the most important position on the team, you do it (at least, if the cost isn't too high). I guess I trust Norv and Zim to decide whether the opportunity cost of drafting another QB is worth it - if, after the season, those two guys (with all their experience) aren't sold on Teddy and think we can do better with a Winston, for example, then I think we have to trust their judgement. It may be wrong, but surely it's more likely to be correct than our judgement.

Thanks, John. I agree that it's good to have contrasting views here, as long as they're reasonably expressed.

Just to be clear, I'm not actually recommending that they take a QB in the first round next year. Basically, you just summed up my point of view on it, which is that if a team feels they have a chance to improve the most important position on the team, they should take it.

Pondering Her Percy wrote:You improve it but not when you have glaring holes at WR, OL, MLB and CB. You assess your needs with prime talent in the early rounds.

That's the fundamental difference of opinion here. Personally, I view the first round in particular as a place to draft talent over need, to let talent dictate choices, because not doing so leads to passing up on great players just to fill an immediate need.

PsyDanny wrote: Is there any way the last few pages of this discussion wherein it is not about Young Theodore Bridgewater, could be moved to a more appropriate place (Hmm, like the NFL Draft), so the rest of us can talk about things that are not Mariota related, such as, lets see, Young Theodore Bridgewater?

Just saying...

Conversations on the board tend to be organic and this one still involves Bridgewater and is still focused on his position, even if it's gone in a different direction. As long as we're discussing the QB position and the discussion relates to Bridgewater, I think that's okay. If you or TSonn would like to re-focus the discussion on Young Theodore Bridgewater then please, by all means, do something to steer it that way. The whole point of this board is to post, participate and contribute!

We'll be getting a new performance from Teddy this afternoon. I suspect that will help steer the discussion back toward his performance anyway.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: I was about to say the same thing. You say you support him and like his progress yet you take shots at him in almost every post you make. All you keep using is the first game against Detroit. Why don't you let this weeks game do the talking. That was the first legitimate defense Teddy faced in his young NFL career. Also, 2 of those INTs were tipped balls. One literally went through Asiatas hands which is not Teddys fault at all. The other was tipped at the line. Teddy has improved in every aspect since then. Calling him out about 1 bad game he had does not defend your point of him "not living up to expectations".

You're being ridiculous. You don't have to pretend that Teddy was playing well early in the season to like him. He was objectively terrible for several games but has improved quite a bit since. He's improving, and the poster said that. I don't see any reason why one can't support Teddy while still acknowledging his struggles earlier in the year.

maembe wrote:
You're being ridiculous. You don't have to pretend that Teddy was playing well early in the season to like him. He was objectively terrible for several games but has improved quite a bit since. He's improving, and the poster said that. I don't see any reason why one can't support Teddy while still acknowledging his struggles earlier in the year.

So we're going to continue to hold his 2nd career start over his head against arguably the best defense in the league and continue to bring it up multiple times saying he wasn't living up to expectations?? Yeah thats pretty fair Yet he allows a much worse QB to have 3 years worth of starting before throwing any kind of criticism out there. Just pretty inconsistent to me

So far in TB's young career he has met scout expectations. Meaning, there are times when his throws are way off, then there are times when it's right on the money.

The best way to protect a young QB is a good running game. If it's still possible, I would try and get AD back in Vikings purple next year. Rebuilding the O-Line takes time. I am not convinced that drafting a new LT, LG or any OL position is going to quickly change things.

If QB is truly the most important position in Football, then for me, a good running game is his best friend. I still have high hopes for Khalil and this OL, just needs to wear down the opposing DL with a solid running game.

petev_sj wrote:So far in TB's young career he has met scout expectations. Meaning, there are times when his throws are way off, then there are times when it's right on the money.

The best way to protect a young QB is a good running game. If it's still possible, I would try and get AD back in Vikings purple next year. Rebuilding the O-Line takes time. I am not convinced that drafting a new LT, LG or any OL position is going to quickly change things.

If QB is truly the most important position in Football, then for me, a good running game is his best friend. I still have high hopes for Khalil and this OL, just needs to wear down the opposing DL with a solid running game.

I agree about the running game. If we don't hold onto AP, I think Melvin Gordon or Todd Gurley are must picks. I like McKinnon but we need a workhorse and I can't really see Jerick as a workhorse. This is the best class of RBs to come out in a while. IMO, Gurley and especially Gordon, will be studs in this league.

I would do backflips if we could land either Cooper or Parker at WR and Gordon or Gurley at RB. Talk about giving Teddy weapons

As for the offensive line, I think if we can just find a good LG, this offensive line will be fine next year. We will have Fusco and Phil back, Sully is the most reliable lineman we have and I think putting a good LG next to Kalil will help him more than people think.

Didn't Gurley have a bad knee injury?

I think those backs should do well (Gurley if he can rebound from injury), but the crux with RB's in the draft is value relative to the round drafted. Gordon is probably the only one who has a chance to go in the first round and I don't agree anymore with the strategy of taking an RB in the first round. There are too many gems to be unearthed to go that high for an RB.

AP is still the best case scenario, in my opinion, but they do need more depth to the position for the future.

PacificNorseWest wrote:Didn't Gurley have a bad knee injury?

I think those backs should do well (Gurley if he can rebound from injury), but the crux with RB's in the draft is value relative to the round drafted. Gordon is probably the only one who has a chance to go in the first round and I don't agree anymore with the strategy of taking an RB in the first round. There are too many gems to be unearthed to go that high for an RB.

AP is still the best case scenario, in my opinion, but they do need more depth to the position for the future.

I think you keep AP for the last year of his contract, and if he won't renegotiate it, draft a decent RB no higher than the second round to be his replacement for the year after.

PacificNorseWest wrote:Didn't Gurley have a bad knee injury?

I think those backs should do well (Gurley if he can rebound from injury), but the crux with RB's in the draft is value relative the round drafted. Gordon is probably the only one who has a chance to go in the first round and I don't agree anymore with the strategy of taking an RB in the first round. There are too many gems to be unearthed to go that high for an RB.

AP is still the best case scenario, in my opinion, but they do need more depth to the position for the future.

Gurley tore his ACL but it wasn't anything overly severe like Lattimore's. I think he will fall in the draft a round or two because he won't be able to participate in the combine or his pro day. I wouldn't take a RB with our original first round pick but knowing Spielman, he will trade back into the end of the first and if he does, I would take Gordon in a heartbeat no if, and's or but's.

I like Gordon as well.

Gurley's injury may present an opportunity though to get him in the 3rd round or so. Attempt to do what the Niners wanted to do with Lattimore and give him all the time in the world to heal completely and start regaining confidence all the while they have AP still rostered, so they don't have that immediate need.

I suppose we're drifting off the topic of this thread, so I'll leave it at that until there's a draft thread.

TEDDY!!!!!

PacificNorseWest wrote:I like Gordon as well.

Gurley's injury may present an opportunity though to get him in the 3rd round or so. Attempt to do what the Niners wanted to do with Lattimore and give him all the time in the world to heal completely and start regaining confidence all the while they have AP still rostered, so they don't have that immediate need.

I suppose we're drifting off the topic of this thread, so I'll leave it at that until there's a draft thread.

TEDDY!!!!!

I agree and like I said, Lattimore's injury was much worse than Gurley's. I believe all Gurley did was tear his ACL, no other ligaments or damage. So it should be a fairly "easier" repair and recovery. That would be great if we could land him later on.

Mothman wrote:
Conversations on the board tend to be organic and this one still involves Bridgewater and is still focused on his position, even if it's gone in a different direction. As long as we're discussing the QB position and the discussion relates to Bridgewater, I think that's okay. If you or TSonn would like to re-focus the discussion on Young Theodore Bridgewater then please, by all means, do something to steer it that way. The whole point of this board is to post, participate and contribute!

We'll be getting a new performance from Teddy this afternoon. I suspect that will help steer the discussion back toward his performance anyway.

We cool!

But it did seem like everyone was saying the same thing over and over.

For the record: I would think it wise to draft another QB in later rounds. For now we seem to have one that is well on his way, and we have so many other needs. Depth is always a good thing.

However, I do have a few more games yet this year for me to change my mind.

PsyDanny wrote:We cool!

But it did seem like everyone was saying the same thing over and over.

It did get a bit circular. Sorry about that...