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Re: Dalvin Cook
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:12 pm
by S197
Cook had two main concerns coming out of college that caused his stock to drop, and both remain concerns. The first was durability, which has been discussed. The second is ball security and is something he had issues with in 2019. I don’t believe the character concerns were a real concern but rather a smokescreen.
Weaknesses:
Ball security
Must cut down on fumbles
His power and yards after contact will probably be diminished in the NFL
Teams worry about off-the-field trouble stemming his friends and entourage
https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2017dcook.php
I think Cook can be great, maybe the #1 RB in the NFL but it’s hard to deny he hasn’t overcome his shortcomings. That and you simply don’t pay RBs large contracts give me pause. He’s going to have two more years of wear before we even have a shot from moving away from Cousins so I’m looking 3 years out and how much he helps this team at that point. I wouldn’t hate an extension but if I were the GM, I wouldn’t offer him a big contract based on that. But then again I wouldn’t have extended Cousins so their thinking is clearly different.
Re: Dalvin Cook
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:20 pm
by VikingLord
Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:33 pm
There is literally zero chance I would ever trade dalvin cook for a top half of the 3rd round pick. Shame on spielman if he ever did that too. We traded up in the 2nd round to draft him, he explodes this year, and we trade him away for an early 3rd? That would have me scratching my head for weeks.
Harris on the other hand, it would definitely have to be an early second or more. But again, I’m not opposed to ever trading anyone IF the deal is legit. Diggs is a stud but to get the compensation we did, I’d make the deal. Harris for an early 2nd, maybe. Cook for a 3rd, not the slightest chance
And if we trade cook, get replacement that has “a lot less wear on the tires”? What wear does dalvin cook have? Not very much. But this is what I said earlier, if we refuse to pay someone like dalvin cook, then we might as well just draft a new RB every 4 years and let the 3-4 year starter from the years before walk every time. Dalvin cook makes this offense go in every aspect. That carries 10 times more value that what some think.
Either way, good discussion, we all make good points
Yeah, I agree on trading Cook for a 3rd would not be a good deal, but I didn't suggest that. I said a 2nd and a high 3rd (and I should have said high 2nd and high 3rd for him)..
As far as wear on the tires, Cook is entering the final year of his rookie deal and he's had a hard time staying healthy already. Maybe "wear on the tires" is the wrong way to put it, but generally younger legs, even if those legs are somewhat less talented, coupled with an ability to stay on the field, trump older, more talented legs that can't stay on the field.
Cook flashes elite talent, but in my view, flashes aren't enough if they aren't often enough. I would not give a big contract to any player who can't stay healthy and upon whom I couldn't count on late in a season or during a playoff run.
Re: Dalvin Cook
Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:58 pm
by Pondering Her Percy
VikingLord wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:20 pm
Cook flashes elite talent, but in my view, flashes aren't enough if they aren't often enough. I would not give a big contract to any player who can't stay healthy and upon whom I couldn't count on late in a season or during a playoff run.
One thing I dont agree with is the "flashes" part. Cook has elite talent. His ability to run and catch the ball is top 3 in the NFL. He doesnt flash this ability. It's always there.
Re: Dalvin Cook
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:58 am
by VikingLord
Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:58 pm
VikingLord wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:20 pm
Cook flashes elite talent, but in my view, flashes aren't enough if they aren't often enough. I would not give a big contract to any player who can't stay healthy and upon whom I couldn't count on late in a season or during a playoff run.
One thing I dont agree with is the "flashes" part. Cook has elite talent. His ability to run and catch the ball is top 3 in the NFL. He doesnt flash this ability. It's always there.
It's there if he's healthy. I say "flash" because when he's not healthy he isn't nearly as effective, and he's not healthy quite often.
And not to nitpick, but Cook isn't much of a blocker, either. I still remember watching him get steamrolled in pass protection in that first game against the Bears last year. I forget which linebacker ran over him, but it wasn't pretty. In my view, elite backs do it all. They run. They catch. They recognize pressure when called on to pass protect and then they block effectively.
He's just not a great place to invest a lot of cap in a long term deal. The RB position rarely is in general, but if a GM is so inclined, it should be a for a stalwart like an Emmitt Smith or a Tomlinson. Someone who runs smart, stays healthy, and can do everything asked of him with equal competence.
Re: Dalvin Cook
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:56 pm
by VikingsVictorious
VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:58 am
Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:58 pm
One thing I dont agree with is the "flashes" part. Cook has elite talent. His ability to run and catch the ball is top 3 in the NFL. He doesnt flash this ability. It's always there.
It's there if he's healthy. I say "flash" because when he's not healthy he isn't nearly as effective, and he's not healthy quite often.
And not to nitpick, but Cook isn't much of a blocker, either. I still remember watching him get steamrolled in pass protection in that first game against the Bears last year. I forget which linebacker ran over him, but it wasn't pretty. In my view, elite backs do it all. They run. They catch. They recognize pressure when called on to pass protect and then they block effectively.
He's just not a great place to invest a lot of cap in a long term deal. The RB position rarely is in general, but if a GM is so inclined, it should be a for a stalwart like an Emmitt Smith or a Tomlinson. Someone who runs smart, stays healthy, and can do everything asked of him with equal competence.
Cook is a solid blocker. You are cherry picking one bad play.
Re: Dalvin Cook
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:16 pm
by VikingsVictorious
Some ammunition for Cook to get a big payday. McCaffrey just signed his extension for $16 million a year. I found this on RotoWorld.
CHRISTIAN MCCAFFREY
RB, CAROLINA PANTHERS
Panthers signed RB Christian McCaffrey to a four-year contract extension through 2024.
Per ESPN's Adam Schefter, the deal is worth $16 million per year, making McCaffrey the highest-paid running back in NFL history. It was an inauspicious time for CMC's contract to come due after a recent spate of running back deal mega-busts, but McCaffrey is no ordinary runner, and he is still two months shy of his 24th birthday. He has also never missed a game with injury. That combination of youth, durability and unique skill-set always made McCaffrey more likely to get paid than most. It is surprising the deal was finalized at this moment in time, but the Panthers clearly wanted to make a commitment to their offensive engine as they embark on a reset. McCaffrey is coming off a campaign where he became just the third player in NFL history to reach 1,000 yards rushing and receiving in the same season. He has averaged 4.7 yards per carry and 8.3 yards per reception for his career. Especially considering the absurd amount of passes he catches for a running back, that second number is extra impressive. Even with Cam Newton out and Teddy Bridgewater in, CMC has the strongest claim to No. 1 overall status in 2020.
Re: Dalvin Cook
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:27 pm
by YikesVikes
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:00 am
YikesVikes wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:50 pm
I agree that I don't think we will have to pay him that much. Also cut Rudolph if we have to pay him.
It's a $13 million dead cap hit if we cut Rudolph that would make it nearly impossible to pay cook.
What an amazing contract the Vikings gave this guy. 9 million for the production of a backup, with almost no way out of it.
Best bet is to cut him this year and take the 3 million cap loss.
Re: Dalvin Cook
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:27 pm
by YikesVikes
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:16 pm
Some ammunition for Cook to get a big payday. McCaffrey just signed his extension for $16 million a year. I found this on RotoWorld.
CHRISTIAN MCCAFFREY
RB, CAROLINA PANTHERS
Panthers signed RB Christian McCaffrey to a four-year contract extension through 2024.
Per ESPN's Adam Schefter, the deal is worth $16 million per year, making McCaffrey the highest-paid running back in NFL history. It was an inauspicious time for CMC's contract to come due after a recent spate of running back deal mega-busts, but McCaffrey is no ordinary runner, and he is still two months shy of his 24th birthday. He has also never missed a game with injury. That combination of youth, durability and unique skill-set always made McCaffrey more likely to get paid than most. It is surprising the deal was finalized at this moment in time, but the Panthers clearly wanted to make a commitment to their offensive engine as they embark on a reset. McCaffrey is coming off a campaign where he became just the third player in NFL history to reach 1,000 yards rushing and receiving in the same season. He has averaged 4.7 yards per carry and 8.3 yards per reception for his career. Especially considering the absurd amount of passes he catches for a running back, that second number is extra impressive. Even with Cam Newton out and Teddy Bridgewater in, CMC has the strongest claim to No. 1 overall status in 2020.
Good bye Cook. It was nice seeing you wear purple.
Re: Dalvin Cook
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:51 pm
by VikingsVictorious
YikesVikes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:27 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:00 am
It's a $13 million dead cap hit if we cut Rudolph that would make it nearly impossible to pay cook.
What an amazing contract the Vikings gave this guy. 9 million for the production of a backup, with almost no way out of it.
Best bet is to cut him this year and take the 3 million cap loss.
You clearly don't have any understanding of this. We would be paying him $13 Million to not play for us this year. He's still a very good player.
Re: Dalvin Cook
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:51 pm
by VikingsVictorious
YikesVikes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:27 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:16 pm
Some ammunition for Cook to get a big payday. McCaffrey just signed his extension for $16 million a year. I found this on RotoWorld.
CHRISTIAN MCCAFFREY
RB, CAROLINA PANTHERS
Panthers signed RB Christian McCaffrey to a four-year contract extension through 2024.
Per ESPN's Adam Schefter, the deal is worth $16 million per year, making McCaffrey the highest-paid running back in NFL history. It was an inauspicious time for CMC's contract to come due after a recent spate of running back deal mega-busts, but McCaffrey is no ordinary runner, and he is still two months shy of his 24th birthday. He has also never missed a game with injury. That combination of youth, durability and unique skill-set always made McCaffrey more likely to get paid than most. It is surprising the deal was finalized at this moment in time, but the Panthers clearly wanted to make a commitment to their offensive engine as they embark on a reset. McCaffrey is coming off a campaign where he became just the third player in NFL history to reach 1,000 yards rushing and receiving in the same season. He has averaged 4.7 yards per carry and 8.3 yards per reception for his career. Especially considering the absurd amount of passes he catches for a running back, that second number is extra impressive. Even with Cam Newton out and Teddy Bridgewater in, CMC has the strongest claim to No. 1 overall status in 2020.
Good bye Cook. It was nice seeing you wear purple.
You are overreacting. That doesn't mean it's over. At worst we still have him for this season.
Re: Dalvin Cook
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:00 pm
by Maelstrom88
If he wants McCaffrey money I'd have to trade him or let him test free agency.
Re: Dalvin Cook
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:12 pm
by fiestavike
Now we can start speculating about Cook being the centerpiece of any trade to the Redskins.
Re: Dalvin Cook
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:08 pm
by VikingLord
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:56 pm
Cook is a solid blocker. You are cherry picking one bad play.
You point out a play when he was solid and we'll call it even evidence he can block.
Re: Dalvin Cook
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:19 pm
by YikesVikes
VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:08 pm
VikingsVictorious wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:56 pm
Cook is a solid blocker. You are cherry picking one bad play.
You point out a play when he was solid and we'll call it even evidence he can block.
I'll say the same thing I said about AP. Why are we leaving him in to block in the first place?
Send him out and occupy the LBs
Re: Dalvin Cook
Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:29 pm
by VikingLord
YikesVikes wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:19 pm
VikingLord wrote: ↑Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:08 pm
You point out a play when he was solid and we'll call it even evidence he can block.
I'll say the same thing I said about AP. Why are we leaving him in to block in the first place?
Send him out and occupy the LBs
Yeah, AP was not a good blocker at all. Terrible recognition and poor form. For such a powerful guy he had no technique and was basically a turnstile.
Cook isn't as bad as that IMHO. He's got slightly better recognition and his technique isn't terrible, but he's just not powerful in that role.
Maybe VikingsVictorious can point out a play that will temper my view of Cook as a blocker. The play I mentioned does really stand out in my memory, but it's possible I'm being unfair to Cook.