Vikings Message Board.Com

jackal wrote: I am not trying to make huge downgrade on the guy.. Believe me I hope he becomes a Mike Evans
for us. Its just with our previous misses at WR in the first round I am nervous about wideouts we choose.

With Patterson and Willamson the previous guys we choose was not credit. Harvin could have been great
but had a lot of personal issues and never stayed healthy (at least we dumped him off to Seattle for some good picks)
I am not going to blame Randy Moss for the owners stupidty(McCombs)

I was just giving you a hard time. I'm sure you're not the only one who is iffy on Treadwell.

HardcoreVikesFan wrote:
And? Your point?

Marcus Peters led the league in INTs. He was a day-one starter across from Sean Smith. He was the DROY. A Pro Bowler. A second-team All-Pro. He was flat-out a baller.

It sounds like you are trying to take away from what Peters did. Who cares if he didn't have to 'beat out' anyone to play across from Sean Smith. In fact, his production this season as a day-one starter is even MORE impressive.

I guarantee you Trae Waynes wouldn't have even CLOSE to the production Marcus Peters had last season if Waynes started on the Chiefs.

Marcus Peters was the best corner in that draft. Someone who I sorely wanted on the Vikings. I started coming around on Trae late last season, and have high hopes for him. However, without a DOUBT Marcus Peters is the better player.

I'm not sure how you have zero doubts after one year in which Waynes didn't even start. By the way, not starting in your rookie year doesn't mean you're a bad player. Zimmer obviously believes that not throwing rookies into the fire is the best way to go. Who knows how Waynes would have been last year if he was forced into a starting role.

How could you possibly guarantee he wouldn't have done as well?

Cliff wrote: I'm not sure how you have zero doubts after one year in which Waynes didn't even start. By the way, not starting in your rookie year doesn't mean you're a bad player. Zimmer obviously believes that not throwing rookies into the fire is the best way to go. Who knows how Waynes would have been last year if he was forced into a starting role.

How could you possibly guarantee he wouldn't have done as well?

Obviously I cannot know for 100% he wouldn't have. How can anyone guarantee anything in life? I have a strong hunch that he wouldn't have had the same production.

However, let's just say that if Marcus Peters was on the Vikings he wouldn't have been riding the pine all season long...

HardcoreVikesFan wrote:Obviously I cannot know for 100% he wouldn't have. How can anyone guarantee anything in life? I have a strong hunch that he wouldn't have had the same production.

However, let's just say that if Marcus Peters was on the Vikings he wouldn't have been riding the pine all season long...

Why would you think that? Zimmer doesn't just hand over starting spots to 1st rounders and they were getting good production out of CB overall.

HardcoreVikesFan wrote: And? Your point?

Marcus Peters led the league in INTs. He was a day-one starter across from Sean Smith. He was the DROY. A Pro Bowler. A second-team All-Pro. He was flat-out a baller.

It sounds like you are trying to take away from what Peters did. Who cares if he didn't have to 'beat out' anyone to play across from Sean Smith. In fact, his production this season as a day-one starter is even MORE impressive.

I guarantee you Trae Waynes wouldn't have even CLOSE to the production Marcus Peters had last season if Waynes started on the Chiefs.

Marcus Peters was the best corner in that draft. Someone who I sorely wanted on the Vikings. I started coming around on Trae late last season, and have high hopes for him. However, without a DOUBT Marcus Peters is the better player.

Wow you really blew that one of proportion didnt you buddy? I never once said anything "bad" or "took anything away" from Peters so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Bottom line was, PK said "Didn't take Peters long (to start)" so my POINT WAS, PK jumps down Waynes throat every time his name is brought up because he didnt "start" point being, Waynes had better veterans in front of him and there was no need to rush him into a starting spot. Peters literally had to beat out nobody. He was a day 1 starter from the second he was drafted.

Also, Peters did have a big year but also, how can you even attempt to compare him to Waynes? According to what sample size?? That's like saying, Stefon Diggs is WITHOUT A DOUBT a better WR than Laquon Treadwell. Waynes didnt get enough time to say so to make a true judgement on him.

PurpleKoolaid wrote:[

I think PHP sometimes takes it personally if someone questions Rick's moves. I know a lot of people that wanted Peter's over Waynes. But Waynes is so fast and athletic!! Sometimes that doesnt mean squat, look at Twill and Flash (although maybe the gods will give CP84 a chance this year). Robinson was just as fast as Waynes, whats he doing? And whats with the Vikings picking CB's that cant catch a ball?

And I think PK clearly pays zero attention to what I say. I specifically said, they are two completely different SITUATIONS. I wasnt comparing the players. I simply said Peters had NOBODY to beat out so he was a starter from day 1, good OR bad. Waynes had a good veteran in front of him that already knew the defense. So they are two completely different SITUATIONS. You also, have ZERO clue what kind of player Waynes is because you're judging him simply off of "starting" or "not starting". He doesn't have a big enough sample size to say so. But clearly you love saying you're right when it comes to Peters. So congratulations man!

Pondering Her Percy wrote:
Wow you really blew that one of proportion didnt you buddy? I never once said anything "bad" or "took anything away" from Peters so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. Bottom line was, PK said "Didn't take Peters long (to start)" so my POINT WAS, PK jumps down Waynes throat every time his name is brought up because he didnt "start" point being, Waynes had better veterans in front of him and there was no need to rush him into a starting spot. Peters literally had to beat out nobody. He was a day 1 starter from the second he was drafted.

Also, Peters did have a big year but also, how can you even attempt to compare him to Waynes? According to what sample size?? That's like saying, Stefon Diggs is WITHOUT A DOUBT a better WR than Laquon Treadwell. Waynes didnt get enough time to say so to make a true judgement on him.

Miss me with that childish buddy barb PHP.

I didn't nothing but argue my point. No more bombastic than you ever are on this board when someone disagrees with you.

The Treadwell to Diggs comparison serves nothing. Treadwell is a rookie. Waynes is not.

And yeah, it is 100% fair to say that Peters is already better than Trae Waynes. Waynes will never be the DROY. Waynes wasn't a Pro Bowler, nor was he an All-Pro.

Is this to say Peters will always be better than Waynes? No. I cannot say that with confidence because there is ZERO guarantee that will happen (nothing is ever guaranteed).

HardcoreVikesFan wrote:

Miss me with that childish buddy barb PHP.

I didn't nothing but argue my point. No more bombastic than you ever are on this board when someone disagrees with you.

lol what point?? That Peters had a good year and put up better numbers than Waynes? I think everyone kind of already knew that man.

The Treadwell to Diggs comparison serves nothing. Treadwell is a rookie. Waynes is not.

Regardless, what is the point of comparing a guy that started full time to a guy that barely got any time? What does that really prove? Nothing

And yeah, it is 100% fair to say that Peters is already better than Trae Waynes. Waynes will never be the DROY. Waynes wasn't a Pro Bowler, nor was he an All-Pro.

Is this to say Peters will always be better than Waynes? No. I cannot say that with confidence because there is ZERO guarantee that will happen (nothing is ever guaranteed).

How can Waynes be DROY when his rookie year is already over? Just because Waynes wasnt a pro bowler or all pro in his rookie season proves what? Also, nothing.

Bottom line is, I really have no clue where you're trying to go with this. I simply said that comparing Waynes and Peters makes no sense because it was two COMPLETELY different situations. Peters could have been horrible and still wouldve started because they have nobody and Waynes wasnt starting regardless. So once again....where are you even trying to go with this?? We all know what Peters did and how Waynes didnt get much time so what are you really trying to prove??

It's almost like you're trying to bait me into saying Waynes is better just so you can jump down my throat and throw stats in my face and never did I once say that. I just said it's stupid to even try and compare the two because one started and one didnt.


Side note and slightly straying away from whatever we're talking about above.....lets not forget that Peters had off the field issues coming into the draft. And we were coming off of a season where the face of our franchise beat his kid. So if you were in that war room would you really be pounding the table for our first round pick to be a guy with off the field issues after all we went through the previous year with Adrian? I sure hope not.

How can Waynes be DROY when his rookie year is already over? Just because Waynes wasnt a pro bowler or all pro in his rookie season proves what? Also, nothing.

When did I say explicitly say Waynes could be the DROY going forward? I am not an idiot.

Waynes rode the pine, so, yeah, he wasn't going to the Pro Bowl.

Peters, on the other hand being a Pro Bowler and an All-Pro proves quite a bit. That is what I was trying to get at.

Bottom line is, I really have no clue where you're trying to go with this. I simply said that comparing Waynes and Peters makes no sense because it was two COMPLETELY different situations. Peters could have been horrible and still wouldve started because they have nobody and Waynes wasnt starting regardless. So once again....where are you even trying to go with this?? We all know what Peters did and how Waynes didnt get much time so what are you really trying to prove?

I didn't think my point was all that hard to comprehend. I wanted Peters on this team. He was the superior player in the draft. His play this year affirmed my assumptions about him.

Regardless of the team situations, Peters was a better player than Trae Waynes in 2015. Period. End of story. You cannot debate that. Sure we had veterans on this team at corner. Terrence Newman played great for us. However, if Trae had the ability to beat Terrence out, then he would have played. He would have beat him out. Hell, there are rumblings that Terrence could start again at LCB this season.

It's almost like you're trying to bait me into saying Waynes is better just so you can jump down my throat and throw stats in my face and never did I once say that. I just said it's stupid to even try and compare the two because one started and one didnt.

Bait you? Oh please - don't give me that crap. It is not hard to see you liked the Trae Waynes over Peters pick. So be it. I have high hopes for Trae, but I wanted Peters - he was/is the better player.

Side note and slightly straying away from whatever we're talking about above.....lets not forget that Peters had off the field issues coming into the draft. And we were coming off of a season where the face of our franchise beat his kid. So if you were in that war room would you really be pounding the table for our first round pick to be a guy with off the field issues after all we went through the previous year with Adrian? I sure hope not.

Yup. I would have taken him without second thought. His character issues were overblown. They stemmed from a poor coaching staff that had a my-way-or-the-highway mentality. He didn't kill, assault, or sexually assault anyone. He didn't steal or embezzle. I have seen ZERO indication thus far of him being a problem player in K.C.

He was the best corner in the draft and I have a feeling that he will continue to be throughout his career.

My only hope is Trae wins a starting spot this season and justifies being drafted 11th overall.

HardcoreVikesFan wrote:[

I didn't think my point was all that hard to comprehend. I wanted Peters on this team. He was the superior player in the draft. His play this year affirmed my assumptions about him.

Regardless of the team situations, Peters was a better player than Trae Waynes in 2015. Period. End of story. You cannot debate that. Sure we had veterans on this team at corner. Terrence Newman played great for us. However, if Trae had the ability to beat Terrence out, then he would have played. He would have beat him out. Hell, there are rumblings that Terrence could start again at LCB this season.

Ok so you're going to sit there and tell me Peters would have started over Newman if we drafted him? My guess would be no. That's not Zimmer's mentality. When you have a veteran that has played in his defense for SEVERAL years, he's going to start. Period. And Waynes would've been forced into a starting role in KC.

Bait you? Oh please - don't give me that crap. It is not hard to see you liked the Trae Waynes over Peters pick. So be it. I have high hopes for Trae, but I wanted Peters - he was/is the better player.

I wanted Waynes simply because he had no character concerns and was a very successful college player. It wasnt because "he's fast" like PK likes to continue to throw out there. If Peters didnt have character concerns, then it would've been a toss up for me. It would've been similar to this year where I would've taken either Treadwell or Doctson. It didnt matter to me. I just knew they were both solid WRs that were potential #1's. I mocked Waynes going to us before that draft. I've been wrong on plenty of draft picks and have no problem admitting that but I can't really say I'm "wrong" with the Waynes pick yet because as I've stated before, it's too small of a sample size.

Yup. I would have taken him without second thought. His character issues were overblown. They stemmed from a poor coaching staff that had a my-way-or-the-highway mentality. He didn't kill, assault, or sexually assault anyone. He didn't steal or embezzle. I have seen ZERO indication thus far of him being a problem player in K.C.

He was the best corner in the draft and I have a feeling that he will continue to be throughout his career.

My only hope is Trae wins a starting spot this season and justifies being drafted 11th overall.

Character issues are character issues IMO. And bottom line is, the last thing we want to do is pull the trigger on a guy with character issues right after what happened with Peterson. Percy Harvin had character issues coming out of college and showed no signs of it his rookie year. That really went a long way didnt it? I can name you plenty of guys that had character issues coming out and they didnt really surface until some time after their rookie season.

Just reviving the first Treadwell thread I could find...

I'm going to propose to you that, based on what I've seen in the preseason games, Treadwell has not made the team. I don't think he's earned it. Two drops tonight! But of course, as a first round pick, we aren't really going to cut him.

John_Viveiros wrote:Just reviving the first Treadwell thread I could find...

I'm going to propose to you that, based on what I've seen in the preseason games, Treadwell has not made the team. I don't think he's earned it. Two drops tonight! But of course, as a first round pick, we aren't really going to cut him.

I haven't seen the game yet. Were his drops egregious? I was encouraged by his 2 point conversion catch from last week, as it made him look as advertised: a guy who could win 50-50 balls.

I haven't seen the game yet. Were his drops egregious? I was encouraged by his 2 point conversion catch from last week, as it made him look as advertised: a guy who could win 50-50 balls.

one was contested, one he should have got, the other was bad throw and one I thought was on him

He did make a nice key block which allowed Pressley to have a decent run and score.

from what I have seen Treadwell was a little bit of a reach as a first rounder... time will tell
I have to say the two quarter backs Stave and Sorenson that played have very little accuracy
and have no touch on the ball. Stave holds the ball way to long and forces some bad throws.