Vikings Message Board.Com

Ah hahhahahahahaha!

(the laugh of the manic psychotic)

Frazier says Freeman has a concussion. Ponder working with first team today". Frazier says Ponder "more than likely" will start Sunday"

dead_poet wrote:I think he can deal with that more so than alienating his players. As a coach, I want fans to like/respect me, but I need that from my guys.

LOL! Obviously, I agree. Frazier doesn't need my respect at all. He does need the respect of his team and that's why I have to wonder how he's selling this to them. If his pubic stance is, "I don't know if Freeman is my starter the rest of the way but he gives us the best chance to win this week", how is he selling this to his players? If he's telling them the same thing, I have a hard time believing they're all buying into it. If he's not telling them the same thing, what is he telling them?

He's not wavering. He's sticking to what he's saying. And it's not unheard of for coaches/players to focus on solely the week ahead. Why publicly commit to Freeman if there's a possibility he may be God awful? Then he'd have to recant that while looking like an idiot/liar to the public, Freeman and the team.

He's making himself look like a idiot/liar now. Well, idiot is a strong word but he looks pretty ridiculous to me. He's clearly committing to Freeman so why deny it or couch it in BS about Freeman being their best chance to win? I can understand why a head coach might not literally believe his offense would go scoreless but when he talks about not seeing any indication in practice that the offense wouldn't score while simultaneously talking about how they tried to fix the mechanical issues they saw in Freeman's game (that led to passes sailing on him all night), he sounds bad. At some point in that practice/evaluation/correction process, while trying to rush a QB on the field two weeks after signing him, I suspect it occurred to Frazier that his QB and offense might struggle mightily. By acting as if it didn't occur to him, I think he made himself sound like a coach who doesn't know what he's doing.

I also have to say that I think he is absolutely wavering. He claimed Ponder was their starting QB even after he was injured and Cassel started in London. Then he (understandably) started Cassel again and then he started Freeman, which was a disaster. He's handling the QB situation publicly like the captain of a rudderless ship, lost at sea.

And Freeman has proven he can do the same, though it's been a couple of years since he's performed at that level.

However, unlike Ponder, he doesn't have a couple of years in the Vikings offensive system or any familiarity with their personnel.

Freeman's ceiling is, theoretically, higher than Ponder's and as many have pointed out, his best season was significantly better than Ponder's. Looking at it from that perspective, to me, makes it difficult to assume Ponder is the clear best football-thrower.

I'm not saying Ponder is clearly the best football-thrower (LOL!). I'm saying Freeman's not ready. As Tarkenton said in that column we discussed earlier today, it's unfair to turn this season into the Freeman Laboratory, to make it nothing more than his audition for the QB job. It's wrong to make a mockery of the season that way. I agree that Freeman's ceiling, theoretically, is higher than Ponder's but after watching what happened on Monday night, I think it's all but impossible to make a case that Freeman is the football-thrower who gives the Vikings their best chance to win the next game.

True, but as I mentioned above, the game plan was predicated around Josh Freeman and he apparently showed enough in practice and meetings to warrant the start. There's no way the team would've put him out there if they thought he would've performed this poorly. It hindsight, Ponder (or Cassel) should've started. There was always the possibility that they could've succeeded after a Freeman benching in the second half (or earlier), but we'll never know. To me it just looked like they were hoping he'd settle down, and never did.

I think that's exactly what happened.

DanAS wrote: Tbe problem with Ponder (and the same could be said for Cassell) is that he is a legitimate NFL caliber quarterback whose performance is much better than what we saw this past Monday night. Why is that a problem? Because, IMHO, Ponder has never been anything more than a BACKUP caliber QB and yet the Purple brain trust had been speaking about him like a franchise QB. We reached big time and drafted him relatively high in the first round, and as a result, determined to turn him into a starter, despite the fact that his performance was generally mediocre at best. Accordingly, for year after year, we left the cupboard bare when it came to bringing in legit QB competition.

Frankly, I'd rather we put Larry, Curley, Moe or Freeman out there and go 1-15 than continue on with the "Ponder experiment" that we were embarking upon early in the year. The last thing this franchise needs is to turn into the Washington Wizards of the NFL (bad, but not horrid, year after year after year).

If starting Ponder is the answer, the question has nothing to do with how this franchise wins championships. But if I were convinced that this franchise recognizes that Ponder is a backup caliber player and plans to find his replacement at the end of the year, than it wouldn't bother me to see him under center.

And that is my take also. Ponder is a decent backup. Play out the year with him or Cassel...take your lumps Draft another kid.
This whole Freeman thing is complete fail.

DanAS wrote:Frankly, I'd rather we put Larry, Curley, Moe or Freeman out there and go 1-15 than continue on with the "Ponder experiment" that we were embarking upon early in the year. The last thing this franchise needs is to turn into the Washington Wizards of the NFL (bad, but not horrid, year after year after year).

That's what they're doing right now.

Ponder might be nothing more than a legitimate backup QB but it's backup QB time in Minnesota. That's all they have right now. Freeman may or may not be a legitimate NFL starting QB but he showed on Monday that he's certainly not ready to play like one for the Vikings. He played at the level of a bad third string QB on Monday.

dead_poet wrote:Ah hahhahahahahaha!

(the laugh of the manic psychotic)

Valhalla wrote:I honestly would not call getting Freeman a complete fail, he wasn't ready. That part wasn't done wisely. QB tryouts happen in the spring for crying out loud, let alone later on in preseason. I don't see this all as a circus but the Vikings trying to remedy their problems. Never know.

I call it fail cause it's a desperation move of signing a failed starter and giving him a 'tryout' midseason because they are contractually obligated to.

It's been termed low risk....but the big risk is that the players will start to lose respect for the staff and FO the way the fanbase is.

Now we have the phantom concussion...and the lies continue. It's like a group of 3rd graders are running this team and the mantra is, "patience, someday we'll all grow up and do our jobs"

I would not want to play for these guys.

Valhalla wrote: That all may be so but if one is talking about 1 single winnable game against an 0-6 team and you are in the 3rd quarter, I'd say why not try someone else rather than someone who's throwing the ball everywhere on the field while giving the top RB in the league, the ball to carry only 13 times. If we don't care about winning the game, maybe we should give all the 2nd stringers a run-out too.

I can't argue about the decision not to bench Freeman before the end of the last game. Any hockey fan will tell you that if you're down 8-0 and you haven't yet pulled the goalie, you've got a bigger problem than the goalie.

Oh ... I forgot. It was 8-1. I forgot about Sherrel's TD on account of his dropped pick-6 and his self-imposed-slip/fumble near his own goal line.

Mothman wrote: That's what they're doing right now.

Ponder might be nothing more than a legitimate backup QB but it's backup QB time in Minnesota. That's all they have right now. Freeman may or may not be a legitimate NFL starting QB but he showed on Monday that he's certainly not ready to play like one for the Vikings. He played at the level of a bad third string QB on Monday.

He played about as poorly as I've ever seen the position played at an NFL level. Clearly, Ponder or Cassel -- and quite possibly Webb -- could have done better. I just don't want the Vikes to fall in love with Ponder or Cassel just because they are 4s on a scale of 1-10. Because frankly, that's what happened when we went into this season after seeing how mediocre Ponder is with nothing more than another proven mediocrity in Cassel.

It's too bad we couldn't have won that "Suck for Luck" sweepstakes a couple of years back.

DanAS wrote:He played about as poorly as I've ever seen the position played at an NFL level. Clearly, Ponder or Cassel -- and quite possibly Webb -- could have done better. I just don't want the Vikes to fall in love with Ponder or Cassel just because they are 4s on a scale of 1-10. Because frankly, that's what happened when we went into this season after seeing how mediocre Ponder is with nothing more than another proven mediocrity in Cassel.

It's too bad we couldn't have won that "Suck for Luck" sweepstakes a couple of years back.

Now why would you have wanted to see a Stanford alum ruined as an NFL QB?

I don't think there's any danger of the Vikes falling in love with Ponder at this point. That love affair appears to be over.

Mothman wrote: Now why would you have wanted to see a Stanford alum ruined as an NFL QB?

I don't think there's any danger of the Vikes falling in love with Ponder at this point. That love affair appears to be over.

Just wait till he beats the packers

mondry wrote:Just wait till he beats the packers

Hey, if they beat GB and he's the main reason, I'll love him (platonically, of course, and for at least a week).