Vikings Message Board.Com

What difference does it make if Wilson was a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round pick.

Because 32 teams thought through almost 100 players he wasn't the best of any of them? And even the Seahawks probably didn't think he'd be anywhere near as good as he was his first year. They also just paid a large amount of money for Flynn. And a guy steps in from college and beats him out in one offseason?

Flynn has done pretty good in the limited action that he has seen with the Packers (look at his stats) and the Seahawks paid a hefty price for him.

He's started two games. And almost half his touchdowns came from *one* game. That gets you excited? The same Seahawks who gave him a hefty price decided they'd give the 3rd round rookie a shot, and he won it. And now those same Seahawks are going to cut this amazing stat machine they just overpaid and we should want him?

Smith got beaten out by a relative rookie also with the Niners and that is why he might be available. Hmmm kind of discounts the argument for not getting Flynn because he has gotten beat out by a rookie It never ends

No, he got hurt. And the rookie HAD to play, and played well. And got to keep the job...different then handing him it before he's taken a meaningful snap. He didn't lose the job in the preseason or offseason because he looked worse then him...

IF the Vikings got Vick (criminal history, midget, noodle arm etc. etc.)

I'll just assume you've never actually watched Vick throw a single pass. Either that or you don't understand what a "noodle arm" is.

And yes if we were talking about drafting a franchise QB, I wouldn't want him. But we're not. We're talking about bringing a guy in for a year or two. So we have at least competent QB play, from a guy who's had a few nice games. Instead of just one good start.

he would be bashed every day as badly or worse than Ponder is by certain fans.

In the last three years Vick has had two sub-100 yard passing games, both times he was knocked out with an injury. Ponder has had 3 just this year with only his own incompetence to blame.

saint33 wrote:Wilson has not been playing at a pro bowl pace all year round, in fact he struggled mightily for stretches early on. Thats what concerns many people about Flynn. Unlike the first round rookies, there is no pressure to force wilson into action so early because that's not expected of a player drafted in the third round. So Flynn was paid to come in and start, but before he even got a chance, he got beat by a up and down raw rookie.

As for flynn's performance with green bay... Kolb looked similarly good in relief of Mcnabb unti he got his own shot to start. Matt cassel looked good for a year in relief of brady. Remember also, there werent many teams in the Flynn sweepstakes last year, not even his former offensive coordinator. Flynn's prospects as a starter are highly questionable, and IMO he's more likely the product of a very successful system in green bay and a great cast of supporting players.

As for the smith comparison, Smith got beat ou by a 2nd year player, not a rookie. He also wasn't beat outright in camp, he was replaced after an injury, after starting all season and playing relatively well

Since you took the time to "nit pick" my post, let me try to get this straightened out for you.

My statement was that Smith was beaten out by a RELATIVE rookie. I quote, "Smith got beaten out by a relative rookie also with the Niners and that is why he might be available." I said that because Colin Kapernick played in only 3 games last year (2011) and attempted 5 whole passes thus the term I used was RELATIVE rookie (but thanks for the insight). My definition of getting beaten out of one's position is when you are injured and then you are recovered and are, by all accounts, reported to be 100% and you are still riding the pine then man you got beaten out (again thanks for the insight).
As far as Flynn goes and I was not referring to anyone but him suggesting that he might be a good acquisition for the Vikings (thanks for your other insightful examples such as KOLB). Yes he was a backup for a while just as Rogers was with Greenbay. Rogers showed enough in his limited appearances to have the Packers decide to cut ties with Favre and give him the job. Apparently the Seahawks and probably several other GMs also liked what they saw in Flynn's limited playing time enough to sign him to a relative lucrative contract.
Here is what I said in regards to Wilson, quote,"The Rookie is playing at a pro bowl level and has solidified the QB position." You turned that around and made it sound like I said that he has been playing at a Probowl level all year.
I really respect you opinion and I can certainly take criticism but in the future please try to not misquote me or turn things around to try and support you arguments.

Michael vick. The eagles offensive line was garbage.

Purple bruise wrote: Since you took the time to "nit pick" my post, let me try to get this straightened out for you.

My statement was that Smith was beaten out by a RELATIVE rookie. I quote, "Smith got beaten out by a relative rookie also with the Niners and that is why he might be available." I said that because Colin Kapernick played in only 3 games last year (2011) and attempted 5 whole passes thus the term I used was RELATIVE rookie (but thanks for the insight). My definition of getting beaten out of one's position is when you are injured and then you are recovered and are, by all accounts, reported to be 100% and you are still riding the pine then man you got beaten out (again thanks for the insight).
As far as Flynn goes and I was not referring to anyone but him suggesting that he might be a good acquisition for the Vikings (thanks for your other insightful examples such as KOLB). Yes he was a backup for a while just as Rogers was with Greenbay. Rogers showed enough in his limited appearances to have the Packers decide to cut ties with Favre and give him the job. Apparently the Seahawks and probably several other GMs also liked what they saw in Flynn's limited playing time enough to sign him to a relative lucrative contract.
Here is what I said in regards to Wilson, quote,"The Rookie is playing at a pro bowl level and has solidified the QB position." You turned that around and made it sound like I said that he has been playing at a Probowl level all year.
I really respect you opinion and I can certainly take criticism but in the future please try to not misquote me or turn things around to try and support you arguments.

I'm confused where I misconstrued what you've said or put words in your mouth. Your response to someone claiming that Flynn is nothing more than a backup because of losing to a rookie 3rd round pick was that the rookie is playing at a pro bowl level. I was simply pointing out that hasnt been the case all year, and with the money being paid to Flynn, you'd think they'd be inclined to start their big free agent qb over a struggling rookie unless they truly believed the rookie was performing better than the veteran could, considering how Wilson played early in the season, that can't say much for Flynn

And I apologize for missing the term relative. I might point out you did the same thing in response. I said he wasn't beat outright in camp. Big difference to losing a camp battle and starting more than half the seaon only to get beat after injury. My point being, smith did not lose his job because of incompetence, nor was he beat out by a struggling player. Kap came in and stole smiths job with excellent play.

I'm not trying to insult or demean if that's how you've taken my responses. I'm simply stating my opinion on Flynn, and trying to give support to that opinion, and possibly point out something you may be overlooking. IMO Flynn is nothing more than a backup caliber player who had a few shining moments. He is not someone to invest heavily in nor is someone who deserves to be given any starting jobs without earning them. Maybe I'm wrong and he's been a victim of circumstance as Rodgers was, backing up a hof player. I just don't personally see it

saint33 wrote:
I'm confused where I misconstrued what you've said or put words in your mouth. Your response to someone claiming that Flynn is nothing more than a backup because of losing to a rookie 3rd round pick was that the rookie is playing at a pro bowl level. I was simply pointing out that hasnt been the case all year, and with the money being paid to Flynn, you'd think they'd be inclined to start their big free agent qb over a struggling rookie unless they truly believed the rookie was performing better than the veteran could, considering how Wilson played early in the season, that can't say much for Flynn

And I apologize for missing the term relative. I might point out you did the same thing in response. I said he wasn't beat outright in camp. Big difference to losing a camp battle and starting more than half the seaon only to get beat after injury. My point being, smith did not lose his job because of incompetence, nor was he beat out by a struggling player. Kap came in and stole smiths job with excellent play.

I'm not trying to insult or demean if that's how you've taken my responses. I'm simply stating my opinion on Flynn, and trying to give support to that opinion, and possibly point out something you may be overlooking. IMO Flynn is nothing more than a backup caliber player who had a few shining moments. He is not someone to invest heavily in nor is someone who deserves to be given any starting jobs without earning them. Maybe I'm wrong and he's been a victim of circumstance as Rodgers was, backing up a hof player. I just don't personally see it

Well Flynn played in the shadow of Jamarcus Russel at LSU but when given the opprotunity and as a 5th year senior he did a very good job. After being drafted by the Packers I believe he beat out Brohm for the backup role for Rogers. I believe against the Patriots he had a three passing TD game. I watched him play at LSU on several occassions and he was very impressive. I was not suggesting giving up the farm for him but since Wilson has taken over the starting job I am sure that he doesn't want to go from playing behind Russel at LSU, then Rogers with Greenbay and now Wilson with the Seahawks. If the Vikes got him for a reasonable price and if Ponder is as bad as most people believe (not me) then bring him in and let him compete.

For people who say that Flynn isn't a good option because he's only played a small amount of games in his career, that's a fair point, but it can also be used the other way. He never really has had the chance to be a starter, and if someone gave him that chance, I think he could succeed. Ive seen him play before and I've seen his stats from the games he has played, and I think the guy deserves a starting role.

80 PurplePride 84 wrote:Vick is an over the hill injury prone turnover machine now. Andy Reid's system made him look better than he is for a while. Reid did the same thing with McNabb, Kolb, Feeley, Garcia, Mike freakin McMahon and now Foles. Andy Reid has many flaws but his system makes QBs look better than they are.

His last year in Atlanta wasn't bad either. 2500 yds 20 td 13 int 1000 rushing yards. He can make plays. By himself. If we can sign him as a free agent I'd take him over guys like Flynn, Kolb, Fitzpatrick. We need someone who can come in and lead a team. Not another giant question mark. Smith would be great as well. Otherwise just give Webb or Ponder another chance over rolling the dice with guys who've never done anything meaningful in this league. At least Smith and Vick also have playoff wins under their belts.

Dark wrote:For people who say that Flynn isn't a good option because he's only played a small amount of games in his career, that's a fair point, but it can also be used the other way. He never really has had the chance to be a starter, and if someone gave him that chance, I think he could succeed. Ive seen him play before and I've seen his stats from the games he has played, and I think the guy deserves a starting role.

I think people are trying to point out his opportunity was this year and he blew it losing to a rookie in camp

saint33 wrote:
I think people are trying to point out his opportunity was this year and he blew it losing to a rookie in camp

But what you don't understand is that just because he is a rookie doesn't mean he sucks. He is almost as good this year as some of the great QB's in the league. So my point is, Flynn lost the job to a great QB, not a bad one.

Great to who? He never played an NFL snap to show he's great until well after he won the job. Not even preseason. The guy beat Flynn despite Flynns contract and the Seahawks obviously thinking he was good enough to sign, in practice. After 32 teams passed on him almost 3 times. They saw enough to give Wilson the starter. A rookie. Over a veteran they just paid big bucks for. That should tell you something of how Flynn looked...

The niners and vikings are pretty similar. Run the ball, play good defense and the qb manages the game. Alex smith isn't going to be a backup to kaepernick next year. He is so much better than ponder its ridiculous. Cut bait with ponder and move on next year.don't waste time.

Trivia question: Who holds the single game passing record for the Packers? Bart Starr, Brett Favre, Aaron Rogers, or Matt Flynn?
You would be correct if you said Matt Flynn who passed for 481 yards and SIX touchdowns just this last year 1/1/12 against the Lions.

Demi wrote: His last year in Atlanta wasn't bad either. 2500 yds 20 td 13 int 1000 rushing yards. He can make plays. By himself. If we can sign him as a free agent I'd take him over guys like Flynn, Kolb, Fitzpatrick. We need someone who can come in and lead a team. Not another giant question mark. Smith would be great as well. Otherwise just give Webb or Ponder another chance over rolling the dice with guys who've never done anything meaningful in this league. At least Smith and Vick also have playoff wins under their belts.

Yeah for sure we need this fool on the Viking's roster.
Vick's criminal history: Before his arrest and conviction for his involvement in dog fighting, killing and torturing, criminal charges were brought up against him by Sonya Elliott, claiming that he gave her genital herpes in the autumn of 2002. He was aware of his condition and the case was settled outside for an undisclosed amount. In 2006, it was found out that Vick was paying taxes for the state of Illinois instead of Georgia or Virginia. In that same week, he was fined $10,000 by the NFL as a consequence of obscene gestures made on the field towards fans. In January of 2007 he was arrested for trying to take water bottle through the Miami International Airport security that had a hidden compartment, the concealed compartment contained a small amount of dark particulate and pungent aroma closely associated with Marijuana.

Good plan

Purple bruise wrote:Yeah for sure we need this fool on the Viking's roster.
Vick's criminal history: Before his arrest and conviction for his involvement in dog fighting, killing and torturing, criminal charges were brought up against him by Sonya Elliott, claiming that he gave her genital herpes in the autumn of 2002.

Ah, yes... that was the "Ron Mexico" incident.

He was aware of his condition and the case was settled outside for an undisclosed amount. In 2006, it was found out that Vick was paying taxes for the state of Illinois instead of Georgia or Virginia. In that same week, he was fined $10,000 by the NFL as a consequence of obscene gestures made on the field towards fans. In January of 2007 he was arrested for trying to take water bottle through the Miami International Airport security that had a hidden compartment, the concealed compartment contained a small amount of dark particulate and pungent aroma closely associated with Marijuana.

Vick's a coach killer and he's never going to lead a team to a Super Bowl win. the idea that he's nota question mark is laughable if you look at his last two seasons. He's a huge question mark and he'd manage to alienate plenty of fans. There's a win/win.

At this point, based on Vick's performance the last two seasons, he wouldn't even be much of an upgrade over Ponder. At least the latter wouldn't enter next season as a 33 year old QB with declining athletic skills and a repulsive a criminal history.

No thanks...the Vikes can do better than Vick.

People are pooh-poohing the QB class for the 2013 draft, but there are a couple of really good possibilities in the mix.

Geno Smith will probably go Top 5 in the draft, so I doubt the Vikings make a play for him. However, Ryan Nassib out of Syracuse looks like a good prospect. He's accurate and smart, has prototypical size for a QB and played very well without a strong team around him.

Even more intriguing is Tyler Bray out of Tennessee. At 6-6 he has field vision, and has played well considering the tumultuous last couple seasons at UT. He raised his game against South Carolina, abusing top CB David Amerson, but he has shown some inconsistency. It make take him a couple years to develop and while there are questions whether he will declare for the draft, if he does, I think he might be a real gem.