Vikings Message Board.Com

Fat Stupid Loser wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:07 pm

fiestavike wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:49 am

Its not mere correlation that when Zimmer's defenses perform best he also has an offense that can run the ball and convert 3rd downs. I think so long as he is our coordinator a complementary offense is going to be the identity of the vikings more than a high flying circus show offense. Given that, spending top 10 money on a QB is probably pretty foolish unless he is the kind of guy who has the ability to make 3rd down conversions on his own, with adaptability and athleticism. Clearly, that is not Kirk Cousins.

Not sure where to jump in here. I'm not quoting you Fiestavike for the sake of this, but more the whole conversation.

I don't buy the whole money issue at all. They all make an insane amount of money and it never really effects how the teams are built and who has to be let go. I know it makes sense that it would, but never does. Not really. Managing the cap and keeping the players you want/need to keep gets done no matter what they pay anybody.

The Skins, since we're talking Kirk, cried the same sob story. He isn't worth that much. We can't get that magic linebacker( that never actually shows up) if we pay him. They let him walk and paid the next guy just as much money practically. Kirk is number 7 in pay now. Wilson #1. Seattle had no problems paying up. I know he is the zebra that we all want cause he can carry his team on his back, except that he doesn't. Not really. Went to 2 SB on the back of his D. But he can extend plays. Kirk can't. So he is worth it? The great AR, nobody better, right?. Makes more than Kirk. Choked again this year. Weird. That is like 16 out of 17 seasons for him. You know who he looked like yesterday against that D? He looked just like Kirk Cousins. Except he has that cool, aloof vibe.

We all want that zebra. I get it. People are down on Cousins because he ain't the zebra. He can't run left and backwards and sideways and then diagonally throwing a fork ball underhanded to the right while looking left for 12 yards on 3rd and 9 like Mahomes. So he ain't worth the money and we can't build around him. Nonsense. This team hasn't lost anyone over his contract which isn't even that big a deal anymore.

He is the 6thish best QB in the league. Was in the MVP talk for a good chunk of the year. Being that everyone wants the zebra and the draft is a crap shoot at best, how are we to improve the QB position? Burrow may be good. Looks like it. But its a guess. Could be good, could be Ryan Leaf. But only one of the 32 teams gets a shot at the unknown magic QB. And if he ends up being good, the Bangles will pay him a buttload, at the expense of their entire team if we are to believe the mantra that you can't pay a QB and manage the rest of the team.

The cap goes up every year, making the 28M a year more meaningless every day. Who could we possibly get better than Cousins? I mean, I'm all for upgrading any position. If the great unicorn falls from the sky on us, see ya Kirk. He is a very good QB. The odds of improving on him are very slim. You bring in the next cheaper guy for 23M, cause that's what he will cost and so what? We can get somebody's FA they didn't want anymore for that money. His contract is irrelevant.

Good post as usual FSL. Our stiff for a QB was just named as a replacement for the pro bowl. These people no nothing. They see qualities in Cousins that no one else sees. Get rid of him and roll the dice. What could go wrong. We can find people who are as smart as Lynch and Shanahan. Strange thing about Kyle. He wanted Cousins as his QB. He worked with him in Washington. But forget that, what does he know. I really hope Cousins winds up elsewhere. The Vikings in the same category as the Browns and Lions. That’s when I stop reading these posts.

Mothman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:39 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:08 pm

Good to see the list but why is tannehill in there? How would he have made this team better? Nobody would have even mentioned him if it wasn’t for this season when he had by far the best RB in the nfl. Sure the other ones are good but tannehill has no right to be on that list. And yeah some of those QBs were drafted when spielman wasn’t even here

You breezed right past the point. He explained why Tannehill is on the list: he's a playoff QB this year was available to the Vikings at some point.

A few of those QBs were drafted when Spielman wasn't here but they still underscore the problem. The Vikings passed on 3 generational talents at QB. So did almost everybody else, of course, but part of the Vikes problem in finding a great QB is that they don't look particularly hard. That's been especially true in the Spielman era. When they had Culpepper, they could be forgiven for thinking they might have had their guy (although they still should have been alert to excellent QB prospects since, as Culpepper's career illustrates, a promising talent's fate can change on one play).

The Vikings approach since Culpepper has been to draft a QB when the issue is forced on them (Jackson, Ponder, Bridgewater) but otherwise to take late round or post-draft flyers on quarterbacks and try to solve the problem in free agency (and let's face it, a player like Brees rarely comes along in free agency and when he did, Childress and the Vikings didn't even try to get him ). For the most part that hasn't worked well. It certainly hasn't led to stability at the position.

Missed the "playoff" part my bad

And I wouldnt say we "passed" on all of them. We didnt have a first round pick in the Mahomes/Watson year. Watson was well known and projected first overall pick for some time but Mahomes was hardly on radars at that time. Dont forget, the Bradford trade happened at the beginning of the 2016 season. So that was prior to their final college seasons. To say "hey, I'm going to let the QB position rot this year because that Mahomes kid is coming out next offseason. So I'm not defending Spieman but to say we flat out passed on those two isnt accurate

Mothman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:50 pm

It's not nonsense. He's a solid player with obvious limitations, several of them in the "intangibles" department. He has strong character but he doesn't bring great confidence, leadership or intangibles to the position. He's not a player you sign to a big contract and build around precisely because he lacks those qualities. Fall behind 24-0 in the playoffs with a player like Mahomes at QB and the team keeps believing they can win and, in fact, may come back to win convincingly, as the Chiefs did in the divisional round. Fall behind like that with Cousins at QB and a team will almost certainly lose and lose big.

A large part of this is false Jim. I'm not sure how you can possibly say he doesnt bring great leadership when you arent physically around him and the team or in the locker room in general. I have a feeling 99.9% of Viking players would disagree with you there. There have been zero reports that he isnt a good leader in Minnesota, it's never made a headline, etc. That's simply based off of your assumption

And as for falling behind, granted it wasnt a playoff game but the Denver game he was down 20-0 going into half against a top 5 defense in the NFL. I was at that game. We were without Thielen, Cook was going nowhere, facing the #4 defense in the NFL and we were down 20 points. Wouldn't you think that alone would be enough for the team to give up on Kirk if they didnt have confidence in him?? Not sure how you could say no. But they did and they all rallied together, Diggs was into it, the crowd was into it, etc. That was a perfect example that proves your assessment to be completely false other than it wasnt a "playoff game". Whether it's playoffs or not, 20-0 is 20-0

Scout, draft, develop and build elsewhere while finding the right guy. Maybe he emerges early in that process or maybe he's the last piece. Don't reach in free agency or the draft. Most importantly: have a vision for the offense (and team) and look for a QB that fits it.

You know just as well as I do Jim, if our QB ends up being the last piece of the puzzle and we go all these years dicking around at the position, are you going to tell me fans will be ok with it? Fans are going to be snapping because we havent addressed the position with a long term option and are drafting all these other positions? This team is so far PAST the point of "let's sign a journeyman like Tannehill/Keenum and let our defense carry us to the playoffs" type team. That was a 1 in 100 team that needed someone to not mess up (too often) and ride their defense to the playoffs. Again, we are not in a rebuilding stage, we are in a reloading stage. Building elsewhere and waiting for the right time to take a QB, which could be the next time we're at rock bottom (which who knows when that will be), is not the right approach with what we currently have IMO.

Mahomes was drafted #10 in 2017 and brought into a program that knew what kind of offense they were running and what kind of QB they wanted. The Vikings selection in that draft was used just 4 picks later, by the Eagles. If I'm not mistaken, the Eagles had it because Spielman misread his team's progress, made a panic-stricken trade for Bradford and squandered a first round pick in the process. Had they held onto that pick, they would have been in a position to identify Mahomes and perhaps move up to get him, to seize an opportunity.

Misread his teams progress? We started off 5-0 with Bradford but collapsed due to lack of run game (AP going down early) and constant injuries to the OL. Clearly they werent that far off given a journeyman had success the following year. And it's easy to say now, yeah Mahomes will be there dont make the trade. The trade didnt work out but I always said I understood why he made the move. Thinking that team was a QB away from a SB wasnt that far off. Outside of OL your team is pretty stacked but you lose AP coming off a 1300+ yard season and most of your OL that year (good players or not on the OL they went from bad to worse).

I'm not defending Spielman entirely because sure he had his opportunities but some of this sounds like you are speaking from hindsight and others aspects of it are simply false.

CharVike wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:46 pm

S197 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:13 pm If you’re eating up $30M+ a year you’re not going to have a spectacular everything else. YOU need to be spectacular and Cousins is not that on a consistent basis. Look at the Titans, similar run first old school offense. You only need a guy like Tannehill for that type of offense, put the rest of your resources everywhere else.

It’s opportunity cost. It’s not about Kirk vs whoever else. It’s is he worth that contract in this offense. And I don’t think he is. You can find a QB that can run play action for much cheaper. His contract should be given to a guy that can extend plays, make clutch plays, and carry a team when needed. It’s not worth giving it to a statue pocket passer that’s inconsistent in clutch games. Let him play out the last year of that boat anchor contract then decide. The biggest mistake they can do is extend him or Zimmer right now.

The Vikings need to pick an identity and stick with it. If this is a run first, strong defense strategy then you simply don’t pay a QB that type of money unless he’s a guy like Wilson who can make do with a shoddy o-line.

Were is Wilson at right now? He got beat in the playoffs like Cousins. He was lucky drawing Philly or the Saints would have beat him. Regardless of what you think he did no better than Cousins. IMO if we played each other 16 times we would both be 8-8. Yes he beat Cousins this year in Seatle. Good for him. But our team in history always has a hard time in that Stadium. Why don't you point out Jimmy G and his big contract. Did that contract destroy the team? Like Cousins destroyed our team. Our problem is paying a guy like Rhodes as a shut down corner is stupid. He gets picked on from the word go. SF has a shut down guy and teams don't throw at him. I could go on but just look at who gets paid and what they do.

Seattle was half a yard away from a first round bye and a home game. It sucks for them they’re in the same division as SF but they had a very good year. Also, I already addressed Jimmy’s contract and why it’s different for SF. They won’t be able to pay those big contracts when all those 1st round rookie contracts end. Just like the Rams. And the Eagles short term benefiting from similar situations. But now I’m just repeating myself and I’d rather not do that. If you think it’s Xavier Rhodes keeping us from getting over the hump... well... I guess you’re entitled to your opinion.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:58 pm

S197 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:14 pm
Kline was a good signing although I don’t know if that’s because everyone around him is so bad that it makes us focus on him less. He and O’Neill are likely the two we need to build around. Bradbury as well but he definitely needs to improve his strength this offseason.

Agreed. But Kline has always been a pretty good pass blocker outside of a down year or two. It’s a big reason I defended the signing so much when it happened last offseason.

You’re talking about a few different things in this post so I’ll try to address them separately. Money or cap in this case is fungible. Meaning you don’t have to put it towards OL if the OL market isn’t there but it’s going to take away from someone. Cousins may mean we can’t sign Ant Harris or maybe Alexander. Or maybe a promising FA elsewhere. This is why I say we need to find our identity. If it’s ball control and defense, then put your resources there. Pay your QB if your team runs through an explosive offense like the Chiefs. I don’t pay if my strategy is closer to the 49ers who could’ve won yesterday with Ponder.

Agreed as well. However, I think we’ll be able to resign more than some may think. I’ve spent quite a few nights so far looking over this roster, making cuts, restructuring, extending and then changing my mind doing my mock offseason. It took me so long just to get through our in house guys. Now I’m not saying I know anything at all about salary cap management because I don’t know shi# when it comes to that lol. But you’ll see in my mock that it’s definitely doable if we play our cards right and shows that cousins contract also won’t effect us as much as we think. I leaned towards extending cousins a few years to drop the cap hit ~$7 million. I’m just not sure if we’ll be in the position to draft a QB early this year. But I did mention drafting a QB early next year. I think we need to spend our picks reloading a little bit this year to replace some aging vets and address the “down the road/future QB” the following offseason. Keeping cousins at his current contract does hurt us a little in the sense that we could pay him roughly $24 million a year instead of $31 million with an extension (hypothetically) and that helps a little more in the sense of filling some major holes

The other issue is identification of talent, an area Spielman has really struggled with on OL. Nothing has really worked. FA signings like Reiff and Remmers to draft picks like Clemmings, Beavers, and Elflein. So again, if we’re a team that’s run focused and he can’t get it done, they need to move on from him. Seattle had a laughing stock of a line and they turned into a dominant run blocking line pretty quickly. Meanwhile we continue to be stuck in reverse. So we know it can be done, we see it around the league.

Yeah I think they need to really figure this out. This might be the toughest decision of the offseason is figuring out what we want to look like and run with it. I think Zim made it clear he wants that SF type offense but they didn’t address the line like they should have if that’s what they want to do. Bradbury was a start, Kline was a start with a good pass blocker and decent run blocker. But spielman has 2 liabilities on the left side and I think one will be addressed in FA and the other addressed in the draft

I guess we’ll see, all I know is we’re dead last in cap right now and eventually you pay the piper. NO kicked the can down the road with Brees and I think they’re going to regret it. They may very well be dealing with his dead cap well into his retirement. Restructuring only pushes the cap down the road, you still need to pay every cent.

We have a ton of coaching turnover. We may lose Paton now too. 2020 may be a good year to reset but I look forward to seeing what you put together.

This is one hell of a thread. Some very good info. I'll throw this out there. People post about signing great FAs. In my view the best FA signings are difference makers. These type of players are far and few between. My best example of that is what this fing Packer team did when they signed Reggie White. He pushed them over the top. That's a difference maker. A HOF player that was still in his prime. Many wanted us to over pay for some G last year. He signed with some team but what did he do for them? Was he a difference maker. I don't even know were he plays. He just a player. Waste of CAP big time. Difference makers don't hit FA. Teams keep those type of players. Or they do what the Raiders did with Mack. Make a big time trade before they hit the market. He's a difference maker. You need to know were he is and you better have a scheme and players that can handle him. We all have seen how he has destroyed our team. Is there a Mack type player this year. Not some old washed up star but a guy in his prime. I'd like that kid Bosa. Is he a FA. I doubt it. I thought Speilman did a good job signing Kline. He played well for us and we needed a player. I rag on Reif but at least he plays decent. Some guys abuse him and that's when coaching comes in. See Mack. Plus LT are hard to come by. But you better have one or say good night. What I think we need is another dominate pass rusher in the Hunter mold. Is that guy out there. We need an anchor in the middle just like Joesph once was. Is he out there. Plus we need a shut down CB like Rhodes once was. Is he available. IDK but that's what I would look for. We will get the CAP easily. Cut Rhodes and say bye bye to Waynes. They don't matter and make a ton of CAP. We have stiffs that can replace there stiff play on the roster already.

S197 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:10 am

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:58 pm

Agreed. But Kline has always been a pretty good pass blocker outside of a down year or two. It’s a big reason I defended the signing so much when it happened last offseason.



Agreed as well. However, I think we’ll be able to resign more than some may think. I’ve spent quite a few nights so far looking over this roster, making cuts, restructuring, extending and then changing my mind doing my mock offseason. It took me so long just to get through our in house guys. Now I’m not saying I know anything at all about salary cap management because I don’t know shi# when it comes to that lol. But you’ll see in my mock that it’s definitely doable if we play our cards right and shows that cousins contract also won’t effect us as much as we think. I leaned towards extending cousins a few years to drop the cap hit ~$7 million. I’m just not sure if we’ll be in the position to draft a QB early this year. But I did mention drafting a QB early next year. I think we need to spend our picks reloading a little bit this year to replace some aging vets and address the “down the road/future QB” the following offseason. Keeping cousins at his current contract does hurt us a little in the sense that we could pay him roughly $24 million a year instead of $31 million with an extension (hypothetically) and that helps a little more in the sense of filling some major holes



Yeah I think they need to really figure this out. This might be the toughest decision of the offseason is figuring out what we want to look like and run with it. I think Zim made it clear he wants that SF type offense but they didn’t address the line like they should have if that’s what they want to do. Bradbury was a start, Kline was a start with a good pass blocker and decent run blocker. But spielman has 2 liabilities on the left side and I think one will be addressed in FA and the other addressed in the draft

I guess we’ll see, all I know is we’re dead last in cap right now and eventually you pay the piper. NO kicked the can down the road with Brees and I think they’re going to regret it. They may very well be dealing with his dead cap well into his retirement. Restructuring only pushes the cap down the road, you still need to pay every cent.

We have a ton of coaching turnover. We may lose Paton now too. 2020 may be a good year to reset but I look forward to seeing what you put together.

Right I get what you're saying but if we could pay some players further down the road when maybe Cousins is no longer here wouldnt that make sense? Again, I love math but figuring salary cap is a whole different monster when it comes to math lol

Mothman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:39 pm

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:08 pm

Good to see the list but why is tannehill in there? How would he have made this team better? Nobody would have even mentioned him if it wasn’t for this season when he had by far the best RB in the nfl. Sure the other ones are good but tannehill has no right to be on that list. And yeah some of those QBs were drafted when spielman wasn’t even here

You breezed right past the point. He explained why Tannehill is on the list: he's a playoff QB this year was available to the Vikings at some point.

A few of those QBs were drafted when Spielman wasn't here but they still underscore the problem. The Vikings passed on 3 generational talents at QB. So did almost everybody else, of course, but part of the Vikes problem in finding a great QB is that they don't look particularly hard. That's been especially true in the Spielman era. When they had Culpepper, they could be forgiven for thinking they might have had their guy (although they still should have been alert to excellent QB prospects since, as Culpepper's career illustrates, a promising talent's fate can change on one play).

The Vikings approach since Culpepper has been to draft a QB when the issue is forced on them (Jackson, Ponder, Bridgewater) but otherwise to take late round or post-draft flyers on quarterbacks and try to solve the problem in free agency (and let's face it, a player like Brees rarely comes along in free agency and when he did, Childress and the Vikings didn't even try to get him ). For the most part that hasn't worked well. It certainly hasn't led to stability at the position.

Rick wants safe at QB, and will avoid taking a risk on greatness to stay safe.

Ponder was clearly never going to be a great QB, and everyone, including Rick, knew that before he was even drafted. It was cemented in his rookie season, but there was still hope he could become a solid QB. So, when his coaches came to him and said he should draft Wilson after they coached him in the Senior Bowl, Rick decided to play it safe and stick with Ponder. That is unforgiveable and should have gotten him fired, but instead he continued to botch the QB position for 8 more seasons.

In 2016, Rick traded a 1st for a QB with worse career stats than his current backup. Why? Not because he thought Bradford would save his season, although that played a part in it. He traded for him to avoid having to draft another QB, and instead get a nice, safe option that would keep him employed for a few more years. Somehow Rick misjudged Bradford’s skill and durability despite a 6 seasons demonstrating he wasn’t good and he wasn’t durable, and Bradford was out of the league in 3 years.

So then Rick was faced with taking a shot on Teddy’s knee, extending Case and drafting a rookie for him to mentor, or sign one of the safest QB to ever play in the NFL for a lot of money. A guy who would make it so Rick wouldn’t have to worry about drafting another QB for the next 10 years, even if he wasn’t the answer to winning a SB. Of course Rick is going to go with that safe option, and of course it came back to bite us yet again.

Just like it will come back to bite us after they make Cousins the highest paid QB yet again when they extend him for 5 more seasons.

My hope is that the Wilfs will be smart enough to not let a GM on the last year of his contract decide the future of the franchise by extending Cousins, but I think I am going to be greatly disappointed.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:04 amMissed the "playoff" part my bad

And I wouldnt say we "passed" on all of them. We didnt have a first round pick in the Mahomes/Watson year. Watson was well known and projected first overall pick for some time but Mahomes was hardly on radars at that time. Dont forget, the Bradford trade happened at the beginning of the 2016 season. So that was prior to their final college seasons. To say "hey, I'm going to let the QB position rot this year because that Mahomes kid is coming out next offseason. So I'm not defending Spieman but to say we flat out passed on those two isnt accurate

"Passed" isn't the best word but let's not get distracted by it. In the overall context of the discussion, the point is the Vikings had either a direct opportunity or a potential opportunity to get players like Wilson, Brees, Mahomes, Jackson, etc. In a few cases, it might have required them to trade up or compete with another team in free agency and maybe they wouldn't have been able to make a deal. However, the opportunities existed.

Regarding the Bradford trade: they would have been better off finding a less expensive, temporary solution or letting "the QB position rot" for a year and drafting a QB. Instead they squandered picks, went 8-8 and possibly missed an opportunity to draft a dynamic young QB, instead paying a bundle for Cousins.

Bottom line: their organizational philosophy when it comes to QB has been flawed for a long, long time.

Pondering Her Percy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 12:38 amA large part of this is false Jim. I'm not sure how you can possibly say he doesnt bring great leadership when you arent physically around him and the team or in the locker room in general. I have a feeling 99.9% of Viking players would disagree with you there. There have been zero reports that he isnt a good leader in Minnesota, it's never made a headline, etc. That's simply based off of your assumption

It's an opinion based on observation. I'm not in the locker room but I've watched enough football to know what leadership from that position looks like on the field, over time, and how teams respond to it. If you object to the word leadership than let's just stick with intangibles. Cousins clearly doesn't bring that extra X factor that elite QBs bring to the table.

And as for falling behind, granted it wasnt a playoff game but the Denver game he was down 20-0 going into half against a top 5 defense in the NFL. I was at that game. We were without Thielen, Cook was going nowhere, facing the #4 defense in the NFL and we were down 20 points. Wouldn't you think that alone would be enough for the team to give up on Kirk if they didnt have confidence in him?? Not sure how you could say no. But they did and they all rallied together, Diggs was into it, the crowd was into it, etc. That was a perfect example that proves your assessment to be completely false other than it wasnt a "playoff game". Whether it's playoffs or not, 20-0 is 20-0

The pressure of a playoff game makes a difference so I'll stand by that opinion.

You know just as well as I do Jim, if our QB ends up being the last piece of the puzzle and we go all these years dicking around at the position, are you going to tell me fans will be ok with it?

Probably not but who cares? It's not about fan service or PR. Build a winner and solve the problem and fans will come around.

Fans are going to be snapping because we havent addressed the position with a long term option and are drafting all these other positions? This team is so far PAST the point of "let's sign a journeyman like Tannehill/Keenum and let our defense carry us to the playoffs" type team.

They still are that type of team. Cousins is a journeyman. He's better than most players who fit that description but he's not an extraordinary or colorful player. He's a reliably skilled NFL starter.

That was a 1 in 100 team that needed someone to not mess up (too often) and ride their defense to the playoffs. Again, we are not in a rebuilding stage, we are in a reloading stage. Building elsewhere and waiting for the right time to take a QB, which could be the next time we're at rock bottom (which who knows when that will be), is not the right approach with what we currently have IMO.

As we've already illustrated, they don't have to hit rock bottom to do that.

One of the key points I've been trying to make here is that the "the right time to take a QB" is when the right QB is available. I don't care if the team already has a good starter or a greater need. If they think a young QB has the right stuff, grab him.

As for rebuilding or reloading... that distinction isn't important. What they're doing isn't working. They need significant change. How we label that change is irrelevant.

The trade didnt work out but I always said I understood why he made the move.

We all understood why he made the move for Bradford. That doesn't mean it was a smart move.

Every season fans rationalize all the ways in which the Vikes are close, in which Spielman's moves have been understandable, etc. and every season the Vikings come up short. We see similar shortcomings and unresolved issues year after year after year. We can always hope but at this point, it's a stretch to think they're going to win a Super Bowl with Cousins, Spielman and Zimmer. Sure, I could be wrong but the history of all 3 in the NFL says that's extremely unlikely to happen.

If the Vikes are smart, a year from now all 3 will be replaced.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:56 amRick wants safe at QB, and will avoid taking a risk on greatness to stay safe.

Ponder was clearly never going to be a great QB, and everyone, including Rick, knew that before he was even drafted. It was cemented in his rookie season, but there was still hope he could become a solid QB. So, when his coaches came to him and said he should draft Wilson after they coached him in the Senior Bowl, Rick decided to play it safe and stick with Ponder. That is unforgiveable and should have gotten him fired, but instead he continued to botch the QB position for 8 more seasons.

Wow, is that true? I don't remember hearing that Vikes coaches were advocating for Wilson after coaching him in the Senior Bowl, although I know he impressed them.

If true, that's depressing.

My hope is that the Wilfs will be smart enough to not let a GM on the last year of his contract decide the future of the franchise by extending Cousins, but I think I am going to be greatly disappointed.

That's a good illustration of why I wanted the Vikings to act to replace Spielman this offseason. Maybe they will extend his deal but if not, why give him another year of personnel moves if he's not likely to be the GM going forward.

If he IS going to be the GM beyond 2020: "Why? WHY????!!!"

Rhoades making the pro bowl. That defies any football logic or knowledge.

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:56 am Rick wants safe at QB, and will avoid taking a risk on greatness to stay safe.

Just like it will come back to bite us after they make Cousins the highest paid QB yet again when they extend him for 5 more seasons.

My hope is that the Wilfs will be smart enough to not let a GM on the last year of his contract decide the future of the franchise by extending Cousins, but I think I am going to be greatly disappointed.

I think it all stems from the belief that you don't need a top tier QB to win in NFL, and you can win with a really safe QB. That's true if you do everything else correctly, but we know that they don't do everything else correctly, do they?

Unfortunately, unless something changed in his philosophy, I'm afraid you are very likely right, and we'll be seeing an extension this off-season. But, I'm also expecting the GM and coach to get extended first.

Frozen Rope wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:09 am Rhoades making the pro bowl. That defies any football logic or knowledge.

They're dealing from the bottom of the deck!

He doesn't deserve the PB this year, but his year probably wasn't as bad as it seemed. Not good enough to justify the contact though, and not one of the elites for sure.

Mothman wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:49 am

StumpHunter wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:56 amRick wants safe at QB, and will avoid taking a risk on greatness to stay safe.

Ponder was clearly never going to be a great QB, and everyone, including Rick, knew that before he was even drafted. It was cemented in his rookie season, but there was still hope he could become a solid QB. So, when his coaches came to him and said he should draft Wilson after they coached him in the Senior Bowl, Rick decided to play it safe and stick with Ponder. That is unforgiveable and should have gotten him fired, but instead he continued to botch the QB position for 8 more seasons.

Wow, is that true? I don't remember hearing that Vikes coaches were advocating for Wilson after coaching him in the Senior Bowl. although I know he impressed them.

If true, that's depressing.

It has been reported to be true, and I choose to believe it. I wouldn't say it was 100% fact though.

I think it is safe to assume Rick's coaches told him they liked him as a QB though. Whether they said we need to get this guy no matter what, or told Rick to take flyer on him in the later rounds? I don't think we will ever know that.